Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[StrangerDanger]

Great summary Estelle- thanks

Might be worth adding that RB/FdH was married to DdH in 1976, unsure when this relationship ended but they did have 2 children together, the last being born in 1981. Need to re listen to todays evidence about the safe deposit box, …

Edited- have just listened back and the safe custody envelope and box in 1997 and 2005-2007 were paid for by a joint account in both their names but only RB/FdH had access

 

[Meligator]

I thought the same 2 Aug 97

I believe it was stated that RB stated he never saw her after Aug 2nd...but I didn't take that to mean he saw her on Aug 2nd. Rather to mean that he didn't see her after her return.

 

[Meligator]

I wonder if WW is his actual birth name, or just another alias. Seems to be the name he was using in late 60's/early 70s, but who knows before that.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I know we've talked a lot about travel from the UK to Luxembourg in the late 90s - but Luxembourg is now a total red herring.

But to Belgium it was even easier. Ferry across the Channel from Dover to Calais - 90 minutes. 40 minutes drive from Calais and you are over the border into Belgium and no passport checks as it's the Schengen common travel area.

Or even easier - catch a Eurostar train at Ashford, directly to Brussels. Just over 3 hours through the Tunnel. Or drive your car onto the "Le Shuttle" service at Folkestone, takes about 25 minutes to travel through the Tunnel, drive off at the other end. Ridiculously easy.

I am VERY interested to hear whether this individual and all of his alter-egos has any links to Sussex/Kent.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but there is a book entitled The Secret War Against Dope by Andrew Tully. This tells the true story of Customs Agents in the USA catching a drug mule Mr WW (one of his aliases) in 1968 who had travelled from France. Is this the same guy?

 

[sunnynz]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but there is a book entitled The Secret War Against Dope by Andrew Tully. This tells the true story of Customs Agents in the USA catching a drug mule Mr WW (one of his aliases) in 1968 who had travelled from France. Is this the same guy?

Wow how do these people get visas to travel between countries once they start getting these criminal records?!

 

[FullMinder]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but there is a book entitled The Secret War Against Dope by Andrew Tully. This tells the true story of Customs Agents in the USA catching a drug mule Mr WW (one of his aliases) in 1968 who had travelled from France. Is this the same guy?

I don't think so because that Willie Wouters was 54 in 1968 (according to news articles at the time) and this Willy Wouters would have been about 29 in 1968.

 

[Bibno]

I wonder if we'll hear anything new regarding the time she was in the UK and where she stayed etc.

I've been thinking about this. It now seems that she may have been manipulated into going and it might not have been the trip she was hoping for. There may well be other women who have been similarly duped.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

In the opening remarks at the inquest we heard that RB told the police that after Marion moved out of her house she asked if she could store some boxes at his house. They were delivered in a removalist's van to his home at Wollongbar - (so this is some 123k's/1 hr 24min) from Marion's home at Ashmore. A week later Marion and a tall man in a uniform go to this house 123ks away and collect the boxes that were left the week earlier. I assume these boxes weren't going on the plane, so where did they take them? Back to where all Marion's belongings went in the first place? To me this is just mind blowing illogical, but I'll leave it at that. MOO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if all the names he chose were based on real people.

There is the Remakel one and even though I'd never heard of him til this case, maybe this person is living in the past a bit where the Remakel name and maybe others were household names in their native country or French speaking countries.

 

[Bibno]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but there is a book entitled The Secret War Against Dope by Andrew Tully. This tells the true story of Customs Agents in the USA catching a drug mule Mr WW (one of his aliases) in 1968 who had travelled from France. Is this the same guy?

I've been reading the National Archives file (the one that's about 135 pages) and it includes a very detailed translation of his criminal record from Belgium. It does include one crime of importation and possession of hashish, but it's quite a small amount, so I think it was probably for personal use.

The National Archives file makes fascinating reading. The criminal record is full of instances of forgery, embezzlement, impersonation, using false names, false number plates, insurance fraud, much cheque fraud. Fraudulent activity in relation to rare books and a stamp collection, obtaining antiques by deception, forgery of leases on property in London.

What I don't understand is how he is actually still resident in Australia when the authorities were looking to cancel his citizenship because he had obtained it by deception. It's really a shame that he was able to stay. I haven't read the whole file, so maybe if I do I'll find out.

And looking at his criminal record, it looks like he developed the skills he had been using in Belgium and who knows how many other victims of his there are out there.

There are lots of examples of his handwriting and it changes quite a bit, but it's also quite childish and he uses a circle as a dot over an "i" which is something I did when I was about 12.

 

[StrangerDanger]

I wonder if WW is his actual birth name, or just another alias. Seems to be the name he was using in late 60's/early 70s, but who knows before that.

yes I got the impression WW was his birth name. I think I read it in the immigration investigation document. The name he later used with the bank, WC, that surname was his mother’s. I really wonder what the people who have had the longest associations with him ie. DdH and the children, think about all the name changes? At least three were by deed poll it seems (RdH, RW and presumably WC given the bank knew him by this name in the 2000s). So bizarre.

there is a WC on social media (private account) so I’m unsure if it’s the same. Lives in Bali so maybe not.

 

[Bibno]

I wonder if all the names he chose were based on real people.

There is the Remakel one and even though I'd never heard of him til this case, maybe this person is living in the past a bit where the Remakel name and maybe others were household names in their native country or French speaking countries.

Some other aliases I noted from the file: Ricky DAVID, Freddie DAVID, Bernard DUPONT, Christopher DUPONT, Tony GRECA, Christopher STEIN.

Is it ok to post these names? Should I delete this?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm curious to know what the link is between the safety deposit envelopes, packets, boxes etc to Marion.

Hopefully they've found something solid, ie something belonging to her, something where she is mentioned, ie documents with her name on.
I suppose a money trail is too much to ask for.

 

[StrangerDanger]

What I don't understand is how he is actually still resident in Australia when the authorities were looking to cancel his citizenship because he had obtained it by deception. It's really a shame that he was able to stay. I haven't read the whole file, so maybe if I do I'll find out.

agreed! My impression from reading that document is that there was a whole lot of handing the file around between offices/departments and not a lot of action. He was out of the country when the investigation happened and there was talk about flagging him at re-entry but clearly that didn’t happen.

 

[Bibno]

agreed! My impression from reading that document is that there was a whole lot of handing the file around between offices/departments and not a lot of action. He was out of the country when the investigation happened and there was talk about flagging him at re-entry but clearly that didn’t happen.

He's obviously quite smart, and the paper based systems just weren't so nimble. It's been interesting looking at all the old telexes and roneoed memos.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

News story from last night re the inquest Day 2

 

[VisitorDog]

I’m curious why they’re asking Sally what was mentioned on the podcast. If it’s a police investigation, surely that’s verifiable by listening to it. I’m curious about the references to the laneway near Marion’s house and all of those types of questions too. They seem very cryptic and meandering.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

LE have been very quiet, going about their business investigating the case.

We didn't hear anything about "Man taken in for questioning over missing woman Marion Barter"

 

[KiwiNZ]

In the opening remarks at the inquest we heard that RB told the police that after Marion moved out of her house she asked if she could store some boxes at his house. They were delivered in a removalist's van to his home at Wollongbar - (so this is some 123k's/1 hr 24min) from Marion's home at Ashmore. A week later Marion and a tall man in a uniform go to this house 123ks away and collect the boxes that were left the week earlier. I assume these boxes weren't going on the plane, so where did they take them? Back to where all Marion's belongings went in the first place? To me this is just mind blowing illogical, but I'll leave it at that. MOO

I feel like he has listen to the podcast and copied Sally's story of the boxes been dropped off at her place and her husband grandparents place by the removal truck.

Southport to Mudgeerba (sally's place) - 16.8km
Southport to Bonogin ( Grandparents place) - 22km

But why would the removal truck go 120km +to drop off some boxes

Hopefully the police can locate where the container actual was stored