Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

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  • #781
I don’t think MC was RBs first wife b/c she was referenced as a woman with whom he had an extramarital affair to his marriage with DW. If this is the same woman who was married to the real FR, then likely she met RB after she and FR divorced (or while she was still married)—I’m guessing in the 80s. This might also explain how he possibly got his hands on FRs documents—if RB was in the home of MC while she was still married to FR.

Could this have happened?

IMO it is quite possible that MC and RB had a short marriage in their early 20s before he went to prison and she divorced him in their mid 20s. Later, RB found out that she had married the real FR in 1972. So he went to Itzig with Diane in about 1976 and, while there, MC and RB had an extramarital relationship while the real FM was away which gave RB access to the real FR's identity documents as a type of revenge. Then in the late 80s, RB decided to use those documents to obtain a QLD driver's licence.
 
  • #782
  • #783
Don't you think that Diane could have looked like Marion back in 1997 for a busy Passport Control Officer? Or alternatively, RB could have just had their photos switched?

037f445bf5e769621517302ab8246e110eb0e431.jpg
 
  • #784
Marion Barter’s former ‘secret lover’ to appear at inquest into her disappearance

Published: 14/02/2022 Excerpts

"The son of Abel and Maria, it was an average start to a family life that would go on to be anything ordinary.
Should this be Andre?

Ric Blum has three ex-wives, including Ilona Kinczell, who was born in 1946 in Hungary and who he married in Brussels on May 10, 1969.
That means four wives altogether

Although he stated on his incoming passenger card to Australia later that same month that he’d “never married”, 7NEWS is aware of two previous marriages before Ilona.
IMO one of those could have been to Monique Cornelius
 
  • #785
Don't you think that Diane could have looked like Marion back in 1997 for a busy Passport Control Officer? Or alternatively, RB could have just had their photos switched?

037f445bf5e769621517302ab8246e110eb0e431.jpg
Maybe? But I think it's unlikely that he killed her overseas. It would have been much harder to dupe bank security back in Aus over weeks of withdrawals, no matter how lax they were. Also, it doesn't seem that was his intention with Janet, and it's likely that he followed a similar process with her because most of the other details line up.
So, not impossible, but doubtful in my opinion. Unless he had an accomplice still in England that killed Marion after his departure, Marion called Sally after the date that RB returned to Aus.
 
  • #786
Maybe? But I think it's unlikely that he killed her overseas. It would have been much harder to dupe bank security back in Aus over weeks of withdrawals, no matter how lax they were. Also, it doesn't seem that was his intention with Janet, and it's likely that he followed a similar process with her because most of the other details line up.
So, not impossible, but doubtful in my opinion. Unless he had an accomplice still in England that killed Marion after his departure, Marion called Sally after the date that RB returned to Aus.

I'm open about both scenarios at the moment. It is possible he hired someone.
 
  • #787
We also don't know the extent of what he's done overseas. How many bodies were left behind as he slipped back into family life in Aus?

It's true though. Typically, con men aren't killers. Murderous behaviour is a whole other pathology. I suppose had he made JO disappear in the UK and returned alone to Aus, no-one would know and his plan would have succeeded!

I guess the question is, are there more victims that can't talk, or was Marion an anomaly? Did something go wrong?

I agree wholeheartedly, @Peralta. Con men are usually not killers. My guess is that something did go very wrong, and Marion was murdered or died by other means, and WW covered it up. Con men operate on charm and being able to slip in and out of whatever they cook up. Murder is messy.
 
  • #788
I agree wholeheartedly, @Peralta. Con men are usually not killers. My guess is that something did go very wrong, and Marion was murdered or died by other means, and WW covered it up. Con men operate on charm and being able to slip in and out of whatever they cook up. Murder is messy.
Yeah, this is what I've been saying! I think if anything, Marion was the exception not the rule to his schemes.
 
  • #789
Can someone remind me - did RB's flight leave Aus before Marion's or after?
 
  • #790
FWIW - and certainly no defense of Blum -- identity confusion as a child creates identity pathology as an adult. This happens often with illegitimate children whose real parentage is covered up by the family. We have several people like this in our family tree. Adoptees who were really the bio children of one of the adopters but conceived in an affair. Children raised as siblings of a birth mother, etc. From what I hear of Blum's origins, they are a total mystery. Family lies beget more lies and create liars. Just my thoughts.
 
  • #791
  • #792
And. . . speaking as a former wife of an embezzler and who spent 20 years living very well on embezzled money -- the duping erodes your perception of reality. I think it's like Stockholm Syndrome. You are conned too but at a deeper level. When I learned what my husband had done, during divorce negotiations, I was stunned but not surprised. As if I did know. Everything suddenly made sense. My children were deeply scarred by their father's lies and suffer many issues today because of his deceptions. We lost everything overnight. Everything. It was a house of cards. But no one prosecuted him. Not the victims or his place of business. No one wanted the publicity. So the lies were never fully addressed.
 
  • #793
Do the new revelations about the woman's connection to real FR and Blum quell those feelings of apologies needed? It seems to me FR DID know something. Or could have been helpful. . . But I am just operating on what I've read here.
 
  • #794
Marion Barter’s former ‘secret lover’ to appear at inquest into her disappearance

Published: 14/02/2022 Excerpts

"The son of Abel and Maria, it was an average start to a family life that would go on to be anything ordinary.
Should this be Andre?

Ric Blum has three ex-wives, including Ilona Kinczell, who was born in 1946 in Hungary and who he married in Brussels on May 10, 1969."
That means four wives altogether

I just listened to episode 29 A Man of Many Names, and this information is at about 3:08 "Abel" not "Andre" and "He has three ex-wives including Ilona K".

I think the article was written from the podcast script. I also heard in the same podcast (I think) somewhere that they had had access to a long police document that they had to go and view in a specific location. So that may have been the source of the information
 
  • #795
Can someone remind me - did RB's flight leave Aus before Marion's or after?

RB left Australia a few days before Marion. I think 5 days but need to check that.
 
  • #796
For me, this article explains RB's behaviour best from the evidence we have heard so far:

The term psychopath is used often, but many people don’t know its true meaning. So what does it mean, and how can you recognise the signs of psychopathy?

1. A disregard for others and societal values
2. Lying and manipulation
People with ASPD are also likely to participate in deceitful behaviour that involves frequent lying. They may even lie about their name and use aliases or other identities.
Typically, the lies represent an effort to get something out of someone else, such as sex or financial gain.
They may manipulate people by turning on charm and using flattery. The manipulation may also involve emotional abuse or blackmail.
3. Aggressiveness
4. Impulsiveness
5. A lack of remorse
They don’t feel guilty about what they’ve done.
People with ASPD may also try to rationalise the harm they’ve caused.
Patterson points out that not all people have all the symptoms of ASPD. “One person may aggressively confront and harm people physically, while another could covertly manipulate others,” he says.
So psychopathic traits may vary from person to person.
And although violence may be a symptom of a person’s aggression, not all psychopaths are physically violent.
Ultimately, people with ASPD use others to get what they want. For people with ASPD, the end justifies the means to the extreme.
People with ASPD may also try to rationalise the harm they’ve caused.
Patterson points out that not all people have all the symptoms of ASPD. “One person may aggressively confront and harm people physically, while another could covertly manipulate others,” he says.

5 Ways to Spot a Psychopath
 
  • #797
I know episode 29 mentioned that RB had had three wives apart from Ilona K, making four in total. So there is DW, IK and two others, but I've missed where the info came from that MC was one of them.

I've listened again to D de H at the inquest and MC was mentioned as someone with whom RB may have had an extra-marital affair.
 
  • #798
And. . . speaking as a former wife of an embezzler and who spent 20 years living very well on embezzled money -- the duping erodes your perception of reality. I think it's like Stockholm Syndrome. You are conned too but at a deeper level. When I learned what my husband had done, during divorce negotiations, I was stunned but not surprised. As if I did know. Everything suddenly made sense. My children were deeply scarred by their father's lies and suffer many issues today because of his deceptions. We lost everything overnight. Everything. It was a house of cards. But no one prosecuted him. Not the victims or his place of business. No one wanted the publicity. So the lies were never fully addressed.
Oh wow. Thanks for sharing. Helpful to have that perspective. So sorry you went through that.
 
  • #799
Just when we thought the plot couldn’t get any thicker. Mind blown.
I’m just catching up with it all now. I honestly thought it couldn’t get any more convoluted!
 
  • #800
Yeah, this is what I've been saying! I think if anything, Marion was the exception not the rule to his schemes.

If you take everything someone has - for example Marion, every penny she had and her home, and it looks like that is what he was aiming for with JO and GM - what is the person meant to do, they go to the police and family, he would have left his victims with no other option ( they have no house or money)- I think he has more victims that he silenced TBH, he doesn't seem to have the ability just to take some money and move on and have the person and police chalk it up to bad luck and a minor offence, he seems to want it all.

Unless Marion was the only person he got away with his full plan, the others all cottoned on at some stage and he only got a portion of what he was aiming for ?

I don't know just thinking out loud lol
 
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