Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[KiwiNZ]

Don't you think that Diane could have looked like Marion back in 1997 for a busy Passport Control Officer? Or alternatively, RB could have just had their photos switched?

I am still in the "it was marion who came back and marion in the bank" camp but looking at both her (DH) and her daughter (MH) I think there is definitely a strong resemblance and I think DH was probably slender when she was younger. Also I though DH's mouth / smile ( if she ever does) is similar to Marion's

 

[Pineconemind]

I haven’t got the chance to look at the courtvideo yet, but i know wedding photographers, and they do need a car, as they have to get to a lot of venues and places!


I’m not done catching up here as it’s early morning here now, but in Belgium you had to join the military for a few years. I’ll search for an article or info on my lunch break!

100%! It would be incredibly difficult being a wedding photographer without a means of transport!

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Do the new revelations about the woman's connection to real FR and Blum quell those feelings of apologies needed? It seems to me FR DID know something. Or could have been helpful. . . But I am just operating on what I've read here.

Doesn't quell it one bit. How on earth would he know about Marion Barter and someone in Australia using his name. He would have been totally clueless, in my humble opinion.

 

[sunnybree]

Doesn't quell it one bit. How on earth would he know about Marion Barter and someone in Australia using his name. He would have been totally clueless, in my humble opinion.

I agree. So far as we know, the FR alias wasn’t used overseas. It was used in the personal add and for a QLD license but he traveled with a passport on a different name, right? Pretending his name is FR in Australia may never come to the attention on the real FR on the other side of the world. We are not even sure that Marion and RB ever physically went to Luxembourg, but if they did I suspect he never used the FR documentation because he only had the QLD license (that we know of). The MC connection explains where RB got the idea to use the name. But so far as we know, he didn’t use the identity to steal from the real FR. What we know so far is that he used the name to create a fake identity to scam a woman, so he could take her money, and then shed the fake identity so the crimes could not be connected to his real person. Is that right?

 

[Untangle]

Did anyone else notice how RB in his police interview had stated he'd never heard of Ginette, while today DdH said that RB told her he did indeed know Ginette?

Hopefully a sign of more admissions to come.

 

[mishy66]

Just when I thought this case could not get any wilder.

In the podcast, MC says that her and the real FR divorced when she was 36, and she is 70 now. So that would mean they divorced in around 1988. We believe there is a family connection with MC and the real FR to Itzig.

In the inquest, DdH says that they were working in Itzig, Luxembourg for around 3 years in the early 80s - this is supported by the daughter being born in 1981 in Luxembourg.

I think it's absolutely plausible that RB had an affair with MC - perhaps during her marriage (although he easily could have returned to Luxembourg after), stole identity documents e.g. a birth certificate from their home and then used these to take out a QLD driver's licence, later placing the lonely hearts ad and scamming Marion. He might even have known about the football connection and used that as a line to gain her trust as another user suggested (e.g 'I knew your husband back in the day...)

Mind. Blown.

Agree totally with this as I stated back a few pages with him using the football connection to gain Marion confidence in him and a line of commonality and trust.
And that he did indeed have an affair with MC back when she was married to FR -
I said a few pages back that the real FR and RM had a connection

 

[mishy66]

Just to add one final thing before I try to get some sleep, I just looked up MC in the publicly available Luxembourg phone directory.

She lives in Itzig.

I looked that up too ha! Yes it is fascinating that is for sure!

 

[MrsWattle]

Does Wonky Willy Weally need a Wheely Walker ? And what the hell did he do to Marion?, I hope ASIC do forensic accounting on his businesses, find all the properties in his Clarendon Hills Investments Pty limited. I hope detectives search his house find his bag full of fake ID's. How can his family cover for his deceitful ways? A psychopath indeed..

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Does Wonky Willy Weally need a Wheely Walker ? And what the hell did he do to Marion?, I hope ASIC do forensic accounting on his businesses, find all the properties in his Clarendon Hills Investments Pty limited. I hope detectives search his house find his bag full of fake ID's. How can his family cover for his deceitful ways? A psychopath indeed..

It would be interesting to see who owned all the properties he has ever had before him. Could be other victims who have now passed away, etc.

 

[SamintheSak]

Someone asked earlier about possible Jewish roots, due to his alias Chaim F D Dehedervary.

No idea if he's actually Jewish. But I'd say he got that alias from adapting his daughter's middle name. In the NAA papers, I saw people scribbling Chusan, and it actually looked like Chaim. As we know, RB takes every opportunity to take documents that already exist and doctor them.

Why did he do it though? Maybe to scam rich widowed Jewish women? Or he was hiding as a Jewish man because no one was looking for that.

I also noticed he used Dehedervary with that alias so if you did a search, it would be harder to find. Just thoughts.

Chaim is a relatively common men's name from "Chai" [life]. Chusan would be a Belge/Flemmish derivative of Susan. No correlation.

 

[mishy66]

I don’t think MC was RBs first wife b/c she was referenced as a woman with whom he had an extramarital affair to his marriage with DW. If this is the same woman who was married to the real FR, then likely she met RB after she and FR divorced (or while she was still married)—I’m guessing in the 80s. This might also explain how he possibly got his hands on FRs documents—if RB was in the home of MC while she was still married to FR.

I do think it is MC he was first married to, yes.
I think RB rekindled the friendship after he and D went OS with the prospect of RB setting up his new ID of FR. That would have taken so time to gain MC's trust again and to gather what he needed.

HE is a man of persuasion, coercing his victims into a belief system of trust and abiding faith.
It is hard to see that in the person we saw yesterday, but in his early days, he lived a life of European suaveness with family links to grandiose ideals. He would be going back to his roots ( pardon the pun) of a family who lived in Belgium with connections to that land since the 16th century and part of the French Revolution.

 

[mishy66]

Could this have happened?

IMO it is quite possible that MC and RB had a short marriage in their early 20s before he went to prison and she divorced him in their mid 20s. Later, RB found out that she had married the real FR in 1972. So he went to Itzig with Diane in about 1976 and, while there, MC and RB had an extramarital relationship while the real FM was away which gave RB access to the real FR's identity documents as a type of revenge. Then in the late 80s, RB decided to use those documents to obtain a QLD driver's licence.

100% agree

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Is MC a former actress?

Yes, appears to have been quite accomplished in the theatre. Pianist too, just looking back in the Luxembourg archives. I seriously doubt MC was married before FR.

 

[mishy66]

And. . . speaking as a former wife of an embezzler and who spent 20 years living very well on embezzled money -- the duping erodes your perception of reality. I think it's like Stockholm Syndrome. You are conned too but at a deeper level. When I learned what my husband had done, during divorce negotiations, I was stunned but not surprised. As if I did know. Everything suddenly made sense. My children were deeply scarred by their father's lies and suffer many issues today because of his deceptions. We lost everything overnight. Everything. It was a house of cards. But no one prosecuted him. Not the victims or his place of business. No one wanted the publicity. So the lies were never fully addressed.

What you say is so very true. Without someone standing up to these people, they continue to get away with it all there lives. And the victims are not just the ones they dupe but the families left behind in the life they have created with someone. Like you. I am so sorry that you had to go through that and your children. Your insight is valuable to many of us who have no idea the real implications of these perpetrators actions.
It is easy for the communities to cast judgement on what they would do if they thought their partners were behaving like RB, for example, but in the reality of life, and trust built up after years, would we really know???
A good friend of mine had a wonderful family upbringing, her parents devoted to each other for 50 years, siblings totally connected and a home full of love. When the father was killed in a work accident they found out he had led a double life for 40 years with another family he had in another State. He had 2 families going all without either knowing of the other. Hard to imagine right if you live your life simply, but it does happen and it happens to people who genuinely have no idea.

 

[Carovb5]

Chaim is a relatively common men's name from "Chai" [life]. Chusan would be a Belge/Flemmish derivative of Susan. No correlation.

Oh no, ‘Chusan’ has nothing to do with Flemmish, Duth, Belgium,…

where did you read this?? A simple search will tell you it’s wrong (before you guys think i’m Willy )

The Flemmish/Dutch/Belgian form of Susan is Suzanne. In rare cases it may be written differently, but not Chusan!!

 

[mishy66]

100%! It would be incredibly difficult being a wedding photographer without a means of transport!

He does have licenses, there is evidence of such. Just another one of his lies.

 

[Carovb5]

Does anyone know if he was raised dutch? (Instead of french)? What was his language growing up?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Regarding Andre / Abel / Abdel...

WW states in his passenger cards that his father was Abel Wouters.
Online genealogical sites say Maria Coppenolle was married to Andre Wouters (take these with a grain of salt unless you see the documents with your own eyes)
DdH claims RB's adopted father was Andre Wouters.
Casselden pressed her further and asked 'not Abdel Florent?'
DdH said it was definitely Andre Wouters.

I don't know if Casselden meant to say Abdel or if he had a brief lapse of dyslexia and meant Abel. In any case, there's clearly issues with RB's origin story.

Edit: Casselden clarified in court today, he meant Abel Florent.

 

[mishy66]

Agree totally with this as I stated back a few pages with him using the football connection to gain Marion confidence in him and a line of commonality and trust.
And that he did indeed have an affair with MC back when she was married to FR -
I said a few pages back that the real FR and RM had a connection

HAahahaaa!! Omg this RB FR MC DVH RDH WW AW AF is becoming WTF hahaha!

I meant to say "I said a few pages back that the real FR and RB had a connection"

Brain Fried!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I know this has always been a very unpopular opinion. But FR in Lux does have a long list of very dodgy "investment property and real estate" dealings. I don't agree with how the podcast went about it. But the man has shadiness around him.

Now that we know there is some sort of connection between FR/Aus and FR/Lux, things might start to get clearer. For all we know, FR/Lux is also a fake identity? Or they were accomplices who used the shared name to hide assets?

Nothing will surprise me in this story.