Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #8

[SamintheSak]

Is this when he told JO about having "20,000 acres of land in NSW where red cedar was grown"

In this file: View digital copy
It mentions Ye Old Pass as being on Hazel Rd, Mt Tamborine. I presume Ye Old Pass was the name of a property/house since subdivided.

 

[Estelle]

Oh and I think he was totally in love with Monique or at least holds her in high regard. Is she the blonde woman???
But it seems she rolled over on him or may be a victim too?? “I was young and naive”

Yes. Can anyone find a photo of her?

Many women would have fallen for the offer of going on a boat on a European river. I have done that and it is so romantic.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Are we sure this guy is European at all? Algeria has been mentioned more than once. Does he have connections to North Africa? Was he possibly a refugee from the Algerian War of Independence in the 1950s or even prior to that given the unrest in the 1940s?

We seem to know little or nothing about his growing up. Where was he educated?

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Are we sure this guy is European at all? Algeria has been mentioned more than once. Does he have connections to North Africa? Was he possibly a refugee from the Algerian War of Independence in the 1950s or even prior to that given the unrest in the 1940s?

We seem to know little or nothing about his growing up. Where was he educated?

According to him he grew up in an orphanage from the age of 3 and got out in 1951 (he would have been 12). Then he was reunited with his family and changed his name to Wouters which was his step-father's name. He hasn't given us much reason to believe him so far though. Yes, the mention of Algeria is interesting.

 

[bettyboop]

Diane was born in Australia. The Sydney Morning Herald of April 20 1951 has a birth notice for a Diane Walker born on April 16, 1951.

Can you please post a link . I've been looking thru Trove and could not find it listed on that date.

 

[MrsWattle]

Double

 

[MrsWattle]

Names of wives does anyone have correct spelling?

1. Jeanine Leroy.
2. Nicole Renaud. (Did she die young in Lille, France?
3. Ilona jacoueline Kinzcel. Died young in Australia
4. Diane Walker

 

[mishy66]

Any chance you were able to find a Marriage Notice???? or Engagement Notice as well???
TIA

Didnt someone already comment the marriage took place 20 Feb 1976 NSW ? I could be dreaming on this though ha!

 

[mishy66]

Can you please post a link . I've been looking thru Trove and could not find it listed on that date.

Family Notices - The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842 - 1954) - 19 Apr 1951

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Names of wives does anyone have correct spelling?

1. Jeanine Leroy.
2. Nicole Renaud. (Did she die young in Lille, France?
3. Ilona jacoueline Kinzcel. Died young in Australia
4. Diane Walker

I assumed:
Janine Le Roy
Nicole Renault

But could be wrong. I just listened again and he says he was only with his second wife for a few weeks!?

 

[Estelle]

I wonder if DDH's parents attended her wedding to RB???? As it was held in Pott's Point then I assume maybe they did, as it was so close to her family home....

However wouldn't they think it strange that Diane was marrying a man who had changed his name since they met him??? If the Chusan story is true??? And the Hilton Hotel, South Hampton where he said he introduced himself as WW???? Or was the deH name already in use???

Was he escaping his crimes under the WW name, by using the cruise to leave the UK??????

But this does not account for why, they do not appear on the passenger lists???

JMO

If you don't live in Sydney, as I do, Potts Point might sound upmarket to you and the word, "Chapel" appealing. But they married at the Wayside Chapel on 20 Feb 1976 which was, in the 70s, a hangout for drug addicts and homeless as the chapel helped them. I used to visit lonely old age people as a Volunteer in their homes in the Kings Cross area on Saturday afternoons. When my parents found out, they banned me from going there. An upmarket wedding in Sydney would be held at St Marks, Darling Point. So I have an idea that her parents would not have attended if they were like mine. It is also very small.

However wouldn't they think it strange that Diane was marrying a man who had changed his name since they met him??? If the Chusan story is true??? And the Hilton Hotel, South Hampton where he said he introduced himself as WW???? Or was the deH name already in use???

The Chusan story is definitely not true as he was with Ilona at the time and "could not be in two places at once". You will never find their names on any passenger lists IMO. Maybe the parents travelled on it some time and Diane was told she was conceived on that ship perhaps so her daughter's second name is Chusan.

IMO Diane met him in 1975 (or 1974 perhaps?) when he worked for her parents in their cafe in Sydney using the assumed name of Frederick De Hedervary - hence she called him "Rick". So then he had to change his name to that name before they got married. It doesn't make sense to me that his name was Willy but she called him Rick.

He could no longer use Willy Wouters as his name as it would lead authorities to find out he had a criminal record so he would not get resident status here.

 

[mishy66]

If you don't live in Sydney, as I do, Potts Point might sound upmarket to you and the word, "Chapel" appealing. But they married at the Wayside Chapel which was in the 70s a hangout for drug addicts and homeless as the chapel helped them. I used to visit old age people in their homes in the Kings Cross area on Saturday afternoons. When my parents found out, they banned me form going there. An upmarket wedding in Sydney would be held at St Marks, Darling Point. So I have an idea that her parents would not have attended if they were like mine. It is also very small.

However wouldn't they think it strange that Diane was marrying a man who had changed his name since they met him??? If the Chusan story is true??? And the Hilton Hotel, South Hampton where he said he introduced himself as WW???? Or was the deH name already in use???

The Chusan story is definitely not true as he was with Ilona at the time and "could not be in two places at once". You will never find their names on any passenger lists IMO. Maybe the parents travelled on it some time and Diane was told she was conceived on that ship perhaps so her daughter's second name is Chusan.

IMO Diane met him in 1975 (or 1974 perhaps?) when he worked for her parents in their cafe in Sydney using the assumed name of Frederick De Hedervary - hence she called him "Rick". So then he had to change his name to that name before they got married. It doesn't make sense to me that his name was Willy but she called him Rick.

He could no longer use Willy Wouters as his name as it would lead authorities to find out he had a criminal record so he would not get resident status here.

You have convinced me. Some I came to the conclusion of after reading here and some research, but the bulk of it.....had no idea!
How do you know about the cafe meet up

 

[mishy66]

In this file: View digital copy
It mentions Ye Old Pass as being on Hazel Rd, Mt Tamborine. I presume Ye Old Pass was the name of a property/house since subdivided.

Yes, thank you I have that document. I was just having a brainfart and getting land dwellings mixed up. Actually this whole tale is like one huge filing cabinet with no way to put into order atm!

 

[Estelle]

Names of wives does anyone have correct spelling?

1. Jeanine Leroy.
2. Nicole Renaud. (Did she die young in Lille, France?
3. Ilona jacoueline Kinzcel. Died young in Australia
4. Diane Walker

I don't think any of us would know the correct spelling of the first two names but my interpretation, as I can speak some French, is this:

1. Janine Le Roy
2. Nicole Renault (he said REN-O)

But I could be wrong.

 

[Estelle]

You have convinced me. Some I came to the conclusion of after reading here and some research, but the bulk of it.....had no idea!
How do you know about the cafe meet up

My idea of their cafe meetup came from Diane telling us that he worked in her parent's cafe. Many people when they first arrive in Australia, work in hospitality.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I would have assumed the surname as Le Roi - as in "the king" in French. A non-French speaker would pronounce that as Le Roy.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I’m curious did anyone else find it an interesting comment today from RDH about trying to find the other brother how he had written to a particular organisation to enquire if he was alive and had no reply..(can’t remember which brother he was referring to Freddy or the other) he then went on to say he had not been in contact for over 30 years.

Yet he travelled yearly to go and see the family (based DHD testimony ) which mainly consisted of Marie, step father and the two brothers/cousins/half brothers…

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I would have assumed the surname as Le Roi - as in "the king" in French. A non-French speaker would pronounce that as Le Roy.

Could also be Leroy.. a quick search yesterday showed spelling could be either of the 3

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I don't think any of us would know the correct spelling of the first two names but my interpretation, as I can speak some French, is this:

1. Janine Le Roy
2. Nicole Renault (he said REN-O)

But I could be wrong.

I’d say jeanine for Janine.. at a guess

 

[Bibno]

The small village of Burwash in East Sussex is very rural. It’s a similar distance from there to Tunbridge Wells to the north and Hastings and Rye to the south. Properties there would not be cheap either to buy or rent. It would be interesting to see if they were on the Electoral Roll in the 1980s and if so under what name? Also with such a small community would someone remember them especially if the boy went to the local Burwash CofE School. Was this perhaps the little village school Marion mentioned she could have worked as a relief in her postcard in 1997?

Burwash is a nice place. I cannot understand how, if you lived there for 3 years that you wouldn't remember any details of what you did, even if the details weren't very interesting. You might remember going for walks, or aspects of the countryside, or friends you had made, or just how bored you were.

I thought about the Electoral Roll, but would they have been entitled to vote? Mind you, that may not have been an obstacle. Getting on the Electoral Register may have been a step to acquiring more identities.

I also wondered whether, when JO talked about going to Sussex and looking through the windows of an empty cottage, whether it might have been somewhere RB may have lived or stayed before -- perhaps it was in Burwash?