Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #8

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  • #461
Can someone explain to me the situation regarding RB and D de H arriving together on the Chusan from Southampton.

I understood that there was conflicting information, and that during the time of that voyage RB was otherwise engaged with IK.

I thought Mr Castleden was trying to get to the bottom of this, but didn't understand whether RBs movements were clarified, and I just don't have the strength to go back and listen again.
 
  • #462
This inquest was like a soap drama playing out… he was so vague in his answers… How frustrating for all parties except RB to go through.. such an annoying character thinking he can untangle himself out of his lies like Houdini.. ! Just loved watching the LCA picking up and pointing out to RB his discrepancies!!
 
  • #463
Can someone explain to me the situation regarding RB and D de H arriving together on the Chusan from Southampton.

I understood that there was conflicting information, and that during the time of that voyage RB was otherwise engaged with IK.

I thought Mr Castleden was trying to get to the bottom of this, but didn't understand whether RBs movements were clarified, and I just don't have the strength to go back and listen again.
They both said the left Southhampton in jan 1970 arrived around march as they said it took 3 months.
However that was impossible for FDH back then he was WW and he flew out of Sydney on feb 15th back to Europe with Ilona - although that wasn’t said today but they did both travel that day.

so therefore he could not have been on a ship meeting his current wife..
It had to be after that date.. but it was not long after he went to jail for 3 years so.. the dates of meeting in 1970 are off it’s more like 1974 ish we think ..
 
  • #464
The fact RB refused to accept he made his original statement is a pretty big deal!

It would take unusual and extreme circumstances for a lawyer to argue their client DID NOT write and sign their police statement, and only very rarely do they argue it was made under coercion and duress.

But it's pretty damn impossible for a lawyer to deny the very obvious and recorded timeline of when police contacted their client.

Also, no lawyer would present such asinine evidence last minute without first presenting it to the court and other parties, which is a requirement... such as presenting 'proof' of his wife's memory issues THE DAY AFTER her testimony.

I suspect RB was trying to con his lawyer into conning the court. And the lawyer refused to perjure themselves. I reckon the lawyer split.

8 June 2021 – police first contact with RB
9 June 2021 – RB signed police statement (denied knowing Marion or having FR QLD licence)
14 Sep 2021 – second police contact with RB
Oct/Nov 2021 – date RB claims police first made contact
RB can pretend all he wants that he didn’t make that statement to police at the station all he wants, the police just need to submit video surveillance of his being present at the station. What a pathological liar
 
  • #465
That document he provided to back up his story about DdH’s memory loss, it was a fact sheet printed off a website! It wasn’t even a letter from a doctor or anything solid that proves it’s even true. SMH lol
 
  • #466
I’m curious did anyone else find it an interesting comment today from RDH about trying to find the other brother how he had written to a particular organisation to enquire if he was alive and had no reply..(can’t remember which brother he was referring to Freddy or the other) he then went on to say he had not been in contact for over 30 years.

Yet he travelled yearly to go and see the family (based DHD testimony ) which mainly consisted of Marie, step father and the two brothers/cousins/half brothers…

I thought this too. Why does he suddenly want to know if his brother is alive? Is it because he’s assumed his identities? Why did he become estranged from his brother when they were reportedly so tight (the family paying for his trips to see them, owning business together, etc).
Did he scam them too hence him using his brother’s name atone point as an alias albeit denied?
 
  • #467
That document he provided to back up his story about DdH’s memory loss, it was a fact sheet printed off a website! It wasn’t even a letter from a doctor or anything solid that proves it’s even true. SMH lol
Yeah hahah so laughable. But really his skills are deteriorating clearly. This was such a dumba$$ move.
 
  • #468
The fact RB refused to accept he made his original statement is a pretty big deal!

It would take unusual and extreme circumstances for a lawyer to argue their client DID NOT write and sign their police statement, and only very rarely do they argue it was made under coercion and duress.

But it's pretty damn impossible for a lawyer to deny the very obvious and recorded timeline of when police contacted their client.

Also, no lawyer would present such asinine evidence last minute without first presenting it to the court and other parties, which is a requirement... such as presenting 'proof' of his wife's memory issues THE DAY AFTER her testimony.

I suspect RB was trying to con his lawyer into conning the court. And the lawyer refused to perjure themselves. I reckon the lawyer split.

8 June 2021 – police first contact with RB
9 June 2021 – RB signed police statement (denied knowing Marion or having FR QLD licence)
14 Sep 2021 – second police contact with RB
Oct/Nov 2021 – date RB claims police first made contact
Do Aussies have the right to remain silent and not incriminate themselves? I'm from New York and it's mind boggling to me that he is incriminating himself under oath, solicitor or not. I'm glad he is, but I'm curious what would have happened if he had called a solicitor when police first approached him? Could they have told him to not speak to police? Would he even be here today at the inquest had he not made those police statements?
 
  • #469
It has been my impression that they are now living with the daughter. Is that correct?
Yes, he made it sound as though he has no relationship with his son for many years and that he and his wife recently reconnected with their daughter and are now living with her.
 
  • #470
If you don't live in Sydney, as I do, Potts Point might sound upmarket to you and the word, "Chapel" appealing. But they married at the Wayside Chapel on 20 Feb 1976 which was, in the 70s, a hangout for drug addicts and homeless as the chapel helped them. I used to visit lonely old age people as a Volunteer in their homes in the Kings Cross area on Saturday afternoons. When my parents found out, they banned me from going there. An upmarket wedding in Sydney would be held at St Marks, Darling Point. So I have an idea that her parents would not have attended if they were like mine. It is also very small.

However wouldn't they think it strange that Diane was marrying a man who had changed his name since they met him??? If the Chusan story is true??? And the Hilton Hotel, South Hampton where he said he introduced himself as WW???? Or was the deH name already in use???

The Chusan story is definitely not true as he was with Ilona at the time and "could not be in two places at once". You will never find their names on any passenger lists IMO. Maybe the parents travelled on it some time and Diane was told she was conceived on that ship perhaps so her daughter's second name is Chusan.

IMO Diane met him in 1975 (or 1974 perhaps?) when he worked for her parents in their cafe in Sydney using the assumed name of Frederick De Hedervary - hence she called him "Rick". So then he had to change his name to that name before they got married. It doesn't make sense to me that his name was Willy but she called him Rick.

He could no longer use Willy Wouters as his name as it would lead authorities to find out he had a criminal record so he would not get resident status here.

Such a good summary. Looking closer at the dates of his name change and his track record, it's VERY possible he actually met DW right before their wedding. I mean, that's his pattern.

You need to register your intention to marry at least one month prior. He must've registered using fake ID's because he only changed his name 8 days before marriage. Then, I'll be very generous (lol) and give them one or two months of a 'relationship'. So I estimate they met between Nov-Dec 1975. He really can't admit it was that quick as it'll establish a pattern he's trying to avoid hence why he's lying so much about the exact date.

21 May 1974 – WW discharged from prison in France
?? ??? ???? – Authorities assume WW entered Aus during this time on an alias as there's no record of entry. Next thing we know, he's in Aus changing his name and getting married.
12 Feb 1976 – WW changes name to FDdH
20 Feb 1976 – FDdH marries DW
 
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  • #471
The fact RB refused to accept he made his original statement is a pretty big deal!

It would take unusual and extreme circumstances for a lawyer to argue their client DID NOT write and sign their police statement, and only very rarely do they argue it was made under coercion and duress.

But it's pretty damn impossible for a lawyer to deny the very obvious and recorded timeline of when police contacted their client.

Also, no lawyer would present such asinine evidence last minute without first presenting it to the court and other parties, which is a requirement... such as presenting 'proof' of his wife's memory issues THE DAY AFTER her testimony.

I suspect RB was trying to con his lawyer into conning the court. And the lawyer refused to perjure themselves. I reckon the lawyer split.

8 June 2021 – police first contact with RB
9 June 2021 – RB signed police statement (denied knowing Marion or having FR QLD licence)
14 Sep 2021 – second police contact with RB
Oct/Nov 2021 – date RB claims police first made contact
RB can pretend all he wants that he didn’t make that statement to police at the station all he wants, the police just need to submit video surveillance of his being present at the station. What a pathological liar
That document he provided to back up his story about DdH’s memory loss, it was a fact sheet printed off a website! It wasn’t even a letter from a doctor or anything solid that proves it’s even true. SMH lol
Surely RB can’t get any worse than this…. ‍♀️
 
  • #472
Yes, he made it sound as though he has no relationship with his son for many years and that he and his wife recently reconnected with their daughter and are now living with her.

I wonder if the child of RB and DDH may be called to give evidence?
 
  • #473
That document he provided to back up his story about DdH’s memory loss, it was a fact sheet printed off a website! It wasn’t even a letter from a doctor or anything solid that proves it’s even true. SMH lol
:D:D:D ROFL LMAO
 
  • #474
I wonder if the child of RB and DDH may be called to give evidence?
Wife's lawyer presented himself as the lawyer to all three. I assume there would be no need to even mention the children if they weren't being called as witnesses or to provide statements, at the very least. However, we only have two days left and it looks like Blum will need both. So IDK if they'll actually speak, maybe they only provided statements.
 
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  • #475
Did anyone get the impression that Diane was born in the UK? I did or her parents emigrated from the UK. They must have been older parents IMO and reasonably wealthy owning various businesses here and living at Vaucluse. (I read that on a previous post but did note the links as I was not interested). But then I wonder if she was on an overseas trip with her parents from Australia and was born here.

IMO I don't think that Diane and RB met on a ship. I think they met in 1975 (could have been 1974) in Sydney when she was about 24yo.

From my research of the family - no, what I have found is that DdH was born in Australia and so was her father at least. I found her birth annoucement + what I believe is an incoming passenger record of her father, and both indicate they were born in Australia. Not sure about her mother though.
 
  • #476
Yes agree .... I wondered if he may get deported after this? But hopefully not until they find Marion ....
If he’s really from Belgium… who knows where he’s from!
(We don’t want him back, you can ceep him :mad:)
 
  • #477
Do Aussies have the right to remain silent and not incriminate themselves? I'm from New York and it's mind boggling to me that he is incriminating himself under oath, solicitor or not. I'm glad he is, but I'm curious what would have happened if he had called a solicitor when police first approached him? Could they have told him to not speak to police? Would he even be here today at the inquest had he not made those police statements?

An inquest is for fact finding, it's not a trial with a prosecution and a defence. So 'no comment' is not a valid answer. I'm judging this based on UK law though, assuming that Aus law is similar.
 
  • #478
I've just caught up with the rest of todays inquest and everyones comments (Aussie living in Greece) and my mind is racing!

Things that I can't stop thinking about (if anyone can shed some light and apologies if I've gotten muddled up with anything)

Ilona, this is such a short & weird marriage... Why would you marry someone who you knowingly (a year prior) had made application to immigrate to Australia, if he never intended doing so, like he states? The surname "Hedervary" also has Hungarian routes. Could he also of been marrying women for passports / citizenships?

He must of got a whopping compensation payout from serving in the gerdarmerie, 4 years in a chalet in Switzerland, married twice, children, travel... Without work, that is alot of expenses.

His current wife, I think she may very well have some learning difficulties and she fell head over heels for him and was/is very naiave. She was the perfect "wife" to have, a mask, a cover up, an aliby for all his side hustles. Perhaps she is more involved in alot of schemes then she even realises.

The move to the UK, why? Why have a business in Luxembourg and live in the UK? I know DdeH said that it was for her, because of the language and because of the driving. (Of course he told her this). How were they living in the UK, did she have a passport? The EU wasn't formed until 1993. Are there any records of them living there at that time?

He was so adamant about what he was saying in relation to Monique, one side of me believed him, but the other side feels like there is definitely more to this relationship. It's as though he can't believe that she would ever say anything against him. Interesting that she (as he says) "she knew all the people" and I "depended on her alot". Maybe he told DheD that he was friends with both her and the real FR, so that she wouldn't get suspicious that he was having an affair with her?

MY MIIIINDDDDD. I can't even imagine how poor SL is feeling.

What a tangled web!
 
  • #479
I wonder if DDH's parents attended her wedding to RB???? As it was held in Pott's Point then I assume maybe they did, as it was so close to her family home....

However wouldn't they think it strange that Diane was marrying a man who had changed his name since they met him??? If the Chusan story is true??? And the Hilton Hotel, South Hampton where he said he introduced himself as WW???? Or was the deH name already in use???

Was he escaping his crimes under the WW name, by using the cruise to leave the UK??????

But this does not account for why, they do not appear on the passenger lists???


JMO
one may be witness in the wedding cert??
 
  • #480
Names of wives does anyone have correct spelling?

1. Jeanine Leroy.
2. Nicole Renaud. (Did she die young in Lille, France?
3. Ilona jacoueline Kinzcel. Died young in Australia
4. Diane Walker

what is the story of the first two???
 
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