Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #8

[Passingthru]

Someone posted this before but… Role of the Coroner

“If, at any time during the course of an inquest or inquiry, the Coroner forms an opinion that a known person has committed an indictable offence in connection with the death the Coroner is required to suspend the inquest or inquiry and refer the matter to the Director of Public Prosecutions.”

I’m guessing that this is why Marion has been sort of “skipped over” in the telling of events. Casselden needs to get him on record for as much as possible before risking the suspension of the inquest. (In case anyone else has been thinking “but what about Marion?”)

 

[ikarka]

Agreed. I don’t think he’s ever really told the truth. If it’s true that he was in an orphanage until 12 (who knows) I’m guessing something went seriously wrong at the attachment phase. He has the hallmarks of a narcissist sociopath (maybe even psychopath). That’s my non-professional armchair diagnosis.

This is probably rather off topic but there's been some super interesting research from NYU recently (Narcissism Driven by Insecurity, Not Grandiose Sense of Self, New Psychology Research Shows) where they've basically said you can't be a narcissist and a psychopath because they're diametrically opposed to one another. They say narcissism stems from deep insecurity (so people big note themselves to try to make up for it) whereas psychopaths are truly convinced they are amazing so often don't feel the need to boast unless they are using it as a form of manipulation. Really interesting!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Regarding Wollongbar, RB offered up unprompted info that he found the home via a real estate agent, which Casselden repeated to him and made a note of.

DdH's timeline
End of 1996 they left Ballina and moved to 8 Rubiton St, Wollongbar where they lived for most of 1997, and then they moved back to Ballina.

Writing this post made me realise the obvious...

Marion's timeline
End of 1996 is exactly the period where Marion started acting out of character and told her family she was going overseas in 1997. Most of 1997 is when she was allegedly with RB, and her life turned upside down. However RB claims he had an affair with Marion in 1995 or 96.

Potential theories on why the de Hedervary family moved:

• ran out of money, Wollongbar was cheaper, and so there was motive to prey on Marion
• DdH/RB split and it prompted RB to fixate on Marion
• moved to a secluded location so no one could see RB/DdH were absent, particularly while o/s
• so no one could see when they moved Marion's belongings to their house
  
• closer to swimming so kids could make own way there, and parents could take car to Southport frequently
• they were living in a former victim's home.

Any other ideas?

 

[ruby925]

No way IMO!

I worked in the airline industry for 30 years. Historically, many people were able to get discounted tickets eg in return for office plants as well as family and sometimes friends. It is feasible that RB got discounted tickets from what might have been the JAL Station Manager. Sometimes it is who you know....

 

[ikarka]

Regarding Wollongbar, RB offered up unprompted info that he found the home via a real estate agent, which Casselden repeated to him and made a note of.

DdH's timeline
End of 1996 they left Ballina and moved to 8 Rubiton St, Wollongbar where they lived for most of 1997, and then they moved back to Ballina.

Writing this post made me realise the obvious...

Marion's timeline
End of 1996 is exactly the period where Marion started acting out of character and told her family she was going overseas in 1997. Most of 1997 is when she was allegedly with RB, and her life turned upside down. However RB claims he had an affair with Marion in 1995 or 96.

Potential theories on why the de Hedervary family moved:

• they ran out of money, Wollongbar was cheaper, and so there was motive to prey on Marion
• DdH/RB split up and that prompted RB to fixate on Marion
• they moved to a more secluded location so no one could see RB was absent, particularly during time he was allegedly overseas
• closer to swimming so kids could walk there, and parents could take car to Southport frequently
• they were living in a former victim's home.

Any other ideas?

Do you think it is possible that he already knew Marion and she had some idea where he lived - so he had to move so she couldn't show up at his place? Especially if he was planning all along to steal some of her things, and he was afraid she might show up looking for them?

Such a mystery!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yep! RB Called both GGB and JO dancers who wanted to advance their careers. In the olden days, calling a woman a dancer was akin to calling her a prostitute or someone with loose morals. He was clearly trying to discredit their reputations. Except, no one thinks like that anymore!

 

[Isabelle-Australia]

Did he just slip and say “we”?

I heard him say “we” when he was questioned about a trip to Europe. It was quiet and he quickly changed it to I

 

[Passingthru]

Yep! RB Called both GGB and JO dancers who wanted to advance their careers. In the olden days, calling a woman a dancer was akin to calling her a prostitute or someone with loose morals. He was clearly trying to discredit their reputations. Except, no one thinks like that anymore!

I’m sure her honor appreciates the deep respect for women that he’s displayed throughout his testimony…

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I enjoy the posts more than the proceedings. Thank you all!

-- I'm sticking with my theory that all or most criminal activity is seated in Europe. RB thought this would keep him safe in Australia. The money from family? Bank accounts or stashes from women he'd conned.
-- Marion screwed him when all her funds werent available to her in UK. He had to let her go back to Aus to get them. This may be his downfall.
-- I also now believe he may be a serial murderer, and if so, a new form of psychopath is born. The RB Con Killer.
-- Marion would never have put her residence as Luxembourg if RB hadn't made her think his home, or their home, was there. Name change maybe. Residence would have been led by him to obscure her movements.
-- Marion's things could have been shipped to Europe. What if FR was RB's fence for stolen goods? ie "furniture business."
-- Psychopaths believe they are smarter than everyone. That's why we need Cassellden!

 

[poppypopcorn]

I have watched the Thursday testimony from Mr Blum on catch up - double speed on You Tube means you still catch everything but the pauses aren't as painful.

Anyway, I really hope there are answers tomorrow (Friday in Aus). But after watching Blum today I can pretty much predict how it will go. Marion threw herself at him, yes he knew her, yes that was probably him at McDonalds. But he will say he knows nothing about why she changed her name, her travel to England, her money, her belongings in storage, any of it. Same as he flatly denied the accusations levelled at him by the other two women he tried to fleece. He is well aware of the potential for a criminal trial off the back of this and is going to deny everything to save his own skin.

I think the very wonderful Mr Casselden is in for a hugely frustrating day.

 

[Estelle]

I worked in the airline industry for 30 years. Historically, many people were able to get discounted tickets eg in return for office plants as well as family and sometimes friends. It is feasible that RB got discounted tickets from what might have been the JAL Station Manager. Sometimes it is who you know....

BBM What does "in return for office plants" mean?

However, I guess I got the idea that RB received heavily discounted fares.

 

[Estelle]

I heard him say “we” when he was questioned about a trip to Europe. It was quiet and he quickly changed it to I

Yes. Good catch! I am wondering if Diane flew overseas in 1997 (using a fake passport that RB organised for her on a different flight) and met him over there then she flew back using Marion's passport. Maybe she was the Maz Marion said she met on a postcard to Sally.

 

[ruby925]

BBM What does "in return for office plants" mean?

However, I guess I got the idea that RB received heavily discounted fares.

Sorry, I meant that companies provided goods/services to an airline and were given discounted tickets as 'payment' rather than cash.

 

[Estelle]

Sorry, I meant that companies provided goods/services to an airline and were given discounted tickets as 'payment' rather than cash.

I see what you mean now but I can't see RB giving anything in return except perhaps a few "dodgy" coins that he claims to be worth hundreds.

 

[Estelle]

Could RB have been involved in coin counterfeiting?

Coin counterfeiting of valuable antique coins is common; modern high-value coins are also counterfeited and circulated. Counterfeit antique coins are generally made to a very high standard so that they can deceive experts.

Coin counterfeiting - Wikipedia

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't believe he got any discounted flights as favours from anyone.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Could RB have been involved in coin counterfeiting?

Coin counterfeiting of valuable antique coins is common; modern high-value coins are also counterfeited and circulated. Counterfeit antique coins are generally made to a very high standard so that they can deceive experts.

Coin counterfeiting - Wikipedia

That seems too much work for RB, haha.

 

[Meligator]

Could RB have been involved in coin counterfeiting?

Coin counterfeiting of valuable antique coins is common; modern high-value coins are also counterfeited and circulated. Counterfeit antique coins are generally made to a very high standard so that they can deceive experts.

Coin counterfeiting - Wikipedia

That or used his elaborate lies to convince people that coins were worth much more than their actual value. In some coin pamphlet ( posted here by someone) — there is reference to a “Coppenolle collection.” My guess is this is some invented reference used to give the impression the coins are of high value.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

That or used his elaborate lies to convince people that coins were worth much more than their actual value. In some coin pamphlet ( posted here by someone) — there is reference to a “Coppenolle collection.” My guess is this is some invented reference used to give the impression the coins are of high value.

That seems more his style. I have this overwhelming suspicion he thought Australia backward and dimwitted. It was the place he hid, found victims, perpetrated schemes, while taking the big chances in Europe -- thinking he was safe in Australia juggling all the aliases. Is it easier to change one's name in Australia than elsewhere? Just curious.

 

[Carovb5]

Living in a totally different timezone + working without the option of secretly watching/listening i enjoy all of you commenting, informing & joking so so much. Thank you for keeping me up to date!!

These answers & comments he gave… incredible. WW is such a unique character.

Btw, based on his appearance (height,…) he seems a bit dutch instead of Belgian/French to me. Who knows with this man.