Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #16

[Housemartyn]

I will listen again

I hear new things each time.

 

[Housemartyn]

I will listen again

Yes do! It's amazing what extra info you can glean !

 

[mishy66]

Not that I recall - I though only the daughter to IK was implied to be his

The other children from his first marriage 1 he claimed as his, 1 not sure, 1 no

It was only the daughter. Once he was shown her birth cert with his name on it, he couldnt deny it.

 

[mishy66]

Day 7 of Inquest

Q: When you met your present wife were you single or a married man?
A: At that time I was....I know I received the papers from Budapest
Q: What papers?
A: Of the divorce from my second wife because she three weeks after I departed she was divorced in Budapest.
Q: Second or third wife?
A: Ilona
Q: At the time you received the papers was she living in Hungary or Australia?
A: Well, she had to be in Hungary at the time, I don't know...or it was done through the Embassy in Sydney. I know she was in relation with the Embassy in Sydney.
I was divorced when I met her (Diane) I'm pretty sure.
Q: Did you ever see your third wife again?
A: No, she was living with another man, why would I.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Day 7 of Inquest

Q: When you met your present wife were you single or a married man?
A: At that time I was....I know I received the papers from Budapest
Q: What papers?
A: Of the divorce from my second wife because she three weeks after I departed she was divorced in Budapest.
Q: Second or third wife?
A: Ilona
Q: At the time you received the papers was she living in Hungary or Australia?
A: Well, she had to be in Hungary at the time, I don't know...or it was done through the Embassy in Sydney. I know she was in relation with the Embassy in Sydney.
I was divorced when I met her (Diane) I'm pretty sure.
Q: Did you ever see your third wife again?
A: No, she was living with another man, why would I.

I think he was a bigamist and with her in Australia she had the potential to expose him to the authorities over all manner of things.

 

[mishy66]

We read today that IK started working from 1974 at the Edward Beale Hairdressers

When I was researching IK I came across a few things on Beale Hairdressers and this photograph from 1972.
It gives a good insight into the salon and how many people worked there.

While it is 1972, the girl at the front looks so similiar to IK but then everyone looked the same in the 70's lol

 

[mishy66]

I think he was a bigamist and with her in Australia she had the potential to expose him to the authorities over all manner of things.

100%

 

[TootsieFootsie]

While it is 1972, the girl at the front looks so similiar to IK but then everyone looked the same in the 70's lol

Oh no we didn't

I resemble that remark

 

[Housemartyn]

I will listen again

I have just listened again. You are correct. I was getting it mixed up with his first wife - who bore him 2 or 3 children.

 

[Liselle]

I have just listened again. You are correct. I was getting it mixed up with his first wife - who bore him 2 or 3 children.

With "swinging testicles" … (oops "singing testicles"), DNA results on genealogical websites could expose a few more siblings from the clan of Davids/Wouters/Wests/Remakels/etc.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

With "swinging testicles" … (oops "singing testicles"), DNA results on genealogical websites could expose a few more siblings from the clan of Davids/Wouters/Wests/Remakels/etc.

With more and more people getting their DNA tested for entertainment and hoping to research family trees nowadays, that could get quite 'interesting' for the clan.

Regarding the family assisting this inquiry or not, I am a child of the 70s and my own father was a player and a chancer, hopefully not to the extent of RB, but if anyone asked me to come forward with what I know or can recall because there's a missing woman, absolutely I'd be falling over myself to be helpful! So for anyone who has lived around RB or experienced him in any capacity, to refuse to be helpful or answer pertinent questions is totally shady IMO. They are not the guilty parties, he is, but they're not making it look good. JMO IMHO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

The NSW Police and Banking Staff are completing at fault with their incompetency.

You go to the police for help, you dont go to do their job for them!

If it wasnt for SL insistence and her tenacity to find answers to where her mother was, this human piece of excrement would never have been found.

Aside from MB case, there are hundreds of missing persons cases that police took little notice of when families first went to them.


The whole missing persons legal system needs a complete overhaul.

Blaming SL for police incompetence is appalling

@mishy66 Listening to the Recap episodes, suddenly I began to understand the police a bit better. The lack of police records and clarity is unforgivable, I agree. But when I try to understand an Australian's right to vanish that's when I get flummoxed. When the police found Marion had changed her name and come back to Australia without contacting her family-- which I had forgotten was something the police learned first -- that confirmed to them the idea that she clearly chose to vanish. In all of this, Sally has had to suffer based on what Marion did do (change her name, return to Australia, keep secrets) and on what people thought by law Marion was entitled to do. Thank god for the inquest. Thank god for the new witnesses. Thank god for all the people working on SL's behalf to get to the bottom of this.

If I blame anyone, it's the Australian authorities who did not apprehend and deport RB when they had the means to. THAT would have saved Marion's life.

 

[MrsWattle]

Shame on Australian Immigration for not apprehending this serial name changer. they've had so many missed opportunities to put him over the hot coals, interrogate and investigate, using wrong passports, having a criminal record and not declaring it.. did he also did not disclose his leg injuries on application for migration? but later claimed disability pension!. Australian centrelink, Immigration and police have all let him slip through the net. Happily skipping along conning women without concern. The letter to police from madame Flamme about his coin stealing is a prime example of a missed opportunity to nab him. So many women making reports to police about theft, threats, terrible behaviour and nothing done!
Leave him with us, throw him into the public arena and watch how he squirms as singing testicals begging for mercy.

At Karma cafe, where you are served what you deserve.

 

[Bibno]

Coercive Control is now a criminal offence in NSW.

'Lives will be saved': NSW to criminalise coercive control in Australian first

New South Wales becomes only one of a handful of places in the world to criminalise coercive control, as the bill passes the lower house.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Coercive Control is now a criminal offence in NSW.

'Lives will be saved': NSW to criminalise coercive control in Australian first

New South Wales becomes only one of a handful of places in the world to criminalise coercive control, as the bill passes the lower house.

www.abc.net.au

Ditto in the UK

 

[mishy66]

@mishy66 Listening to the Recap episodes, suddenly I began to understand the police a bit better. The lack of police records and clarity is unforgivable, I agree. But when I try to understand an Australian's right to vanish that's when I get flummoxed. When the police found Marion had changed her name and come back to Australia without contacting her family-- which I had forgotten was something the police learned first -- that confirmed to them the idea that she clearly chose to vanish. In all of this, Sally has had to suffer based on what Marion did do (change her name, return to Australia, keep secrets) and on what people thought by law Marion was entitled to do. Thank god for the inquest. Thank god for the new witnesses. Thank god for all the people working on SL's behalf to get to the bottom of this.

If I blame anyone, it's the Australian authorities who did not apprehend and deport RB when they had the means to. THAT would have saved Marion's life.

So so true @MrsEmmaPeel

 

[Bibno]

Ditto in the UK

We’ve had the law in the UK since 2015, but it’s only just been passed in NSW.

 

[fastpiece]

Did any one see Sally's comment on MPMB? "Couldn't find any marriage certificate Re Remakel but we have seen her drivers license application and Natalia has an extra 'a' in it and states she is MALE!" Sal

 

[Littleguy7]

I appreciate the "did she return or didn't she" debate is still not fully closed for everyone despite the inquest and Sally's seeming acceptance that she did (It's still not fully closed for me to be honest).

The scenario that seems plausible to me is that she returns still under his spell (because I find it impossible she would have written Luxemburg housewife if she was sceptical) for the purposes of making arrangements to ship her container of belongings in storage to Luxemburg and sort out $ before heading back over. And something happens involving RB in this process.

The missing container of belongings is unresolved, and I was contemplating that perhaps Marion had organised long term storage somewhere out Grafton/Armidale way. It's obviously not close to Southport but perhaps this was an economical way to arrange long term storage.

I know that a lot of efforts were made by Sally to try and track down the removalists, but was wondering whether anyone has any knowledge of long term storage services that might have been available back at that time?
Is there a way to access Yellow Pages from the Gold Coast from 1997 digitally does anyone know?

 

[KiwiNZ]

@mishy66 Listening to the Recap episodes, suddenly I began to understand the police a bit better. The lack of police records and clarity is unforgivable, I agree. But when I try to understand an Australian's right to vanish that's when I get flummoxed. When the police found Marion had changed her name and come back to Australia without contacting her family-- which I had forgotten was something the police learned first -- that confirmed to them the idea that she clearly chose to vanish. In all of this, Sally has had to suffer based on what Marion did do (change her name, return to Australia, keep secrets) and on what people thought by law Marion was entitled to do. Thank god for the inquest. Thank god for the new witnesses. Thank god for all the people working on SL's behalf to get to the bottom of this.

If I blame anyone, it's the Australian authorities who did not apprehend and deport RB when they had the means to. THAT would have saved Marion's life.

I have to agree with you, but at the same time this does not make me feel any less sorry for Sally or have less empathy for the cluster F of a situation, none of this is her fault, and she should not blame herself ( she posted she feels she let her mother down, she didn't and she hasn't) and I know we all feel this way.

I think we can all say the first 7 years of this case would not have rolled like it did if it was our parent missing, but that is in part because we would have had the support of our extended family, and not been told we were "over reacting". Until she met AS she did not have the support or the belief from others that MB did disappear herself or the vehicle to drive this forward.

Any police investigation would have included MB's extended family and clearly did, they seem unanimous in shutting this down, giving the police further reason to assume she left of her own accord, leaving Sally looking like she wanted the police to solve a family issue which they don't do. The name change find only cemented this

relistening to the catch-up episodes - MB's sister stating that her father stopped looking and the family accept she wanted to leave when he was told she was asked a question only Marion could answer " the money for the car", this leads me to believe it was Marion because I can't think her father would just give up unless he believes she wanted no contact. The sisters seem to have become bitter towards MB for putting their parents through this.

I think Sally was totally confused by the police, situation and her family and was stuck. Tourn between following her gut or her family. I don't think urgency was communicated to the police because urgency would have been calling them every day and not waiting for them to call you. But I can totally see how Sally got into a no-win situation and not by her own doing. ALOT of people have let Sally down, including the police and her extended family. It is a sorry, sorry situation.

But the police could have done a way better job of keeping records and should have sighted her, period.