Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #17

[Estelle]

Surely MdH could get handy with a box dye! I wouldn’t let my mum walk around looking like that.

I hadn't realised they had moved. Weren't they living with their daughter?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/missing-marion-barters-daughter-sally-leydon-takes-aim-at-decades-of-failures-by-authorities/news-story/010588a8267bf9f7dae56c2fc4098e48?amp

Missing Marion Barter’s daughter Sally Leydon takes aim at decades of failures by authorities

<modsnip: Direct quotes or copy/paste of content or images from a paywalled article is a violation of copyright law>

More at the link.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/missing-marion-barters-daughter-sally-leydon-takes-aim-at-decades-of-failures-by-authorities/news-story/010588a8267bf9f7dae56c2fc4098e48?amp

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

If I were writing a novel and wanted a "happy" ending -- I'd serve AKA up with all these immigration charges, pension fraud, seize all his property all over the world, and threaten deportation . . .and then when he was desperate I'd offer immunity and a wee token jail term if he came clean about Marion. For me, knowing what happened and knowing his life in Australia was destroyed would be the only justice I could hope for.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

This is the transcript (sorry a few misspellings) of the letter to Sally. I’ve removed the final paragraph as there is some personal info on there. Marion did send more postcards to other family members & friends but sadly these were destroyed before it became apparent she was missing. I had...

www.websleuths.com

Sure is. This story ranges between the parameters of whether he's a seasoned con artist and fraudster who would 'deal with' someone if they became too difficult all the way to whether other people's life has no meaning to him and he sets about de-funding them with the advance intention of taking their life, possibly in cahoots with other nefarious people and his wife.

Was it Ghislaine who said he menaced her with some statement such as 'you know what will happen' if she caused him trouble?

 

[gymtonic]

This theory is possible.

The issue, which has been pointed out before on this forum, is that it is not an « escalation« in that the MB story (1997) is, in terms of chronology, before the stories of other known victims e.g GGB (1998), JO (1999) and the more recent victim reveals. So until more victims pre-MB are discovered, and if it was murder, then it is a pattern of de-escalation Rather than escalation. Granted, there are question marks over IK‘s death earlier, but still speculation at this point. So for me it is this potential question of de-escalation that is one of the keys to « what happened to MB? ». If it was an existing pattern of murder, then why de-escalate? This doesn’t match the usual « escalation » pattern of murderers who start out in petty crime. If it was murder because of an accident, then why continue with the same MO? I still think that there are a lot of missing jigsaw puzzle pieces that either don’t exist or I am not privy to, that make me prevaricate on what happened to MB. Let’s hope the rolling stone gathering moss continues to reveal evidence that either pre-dates MB or at least is contemporaneous.

 

[brjakj]

The issue, which has been pointed out before on this forum, is that it is not an « escalation« in that the MB story (1997) is, in terms of chronology, before the stories of other known victims e.g GGB (1998), JO (1999) and the more recent victim reveals. So until more victims pre-MB are discovered, and if it was murder, then it is a pattern of de-escalation Rather than escalation. Granted, there are question marks over IK‘s death earlier, but still speculation at this point. So for me it is this potential question of de-escalation that is one of the keys to « what happened to MB? ». If it was an existing pattern of murder, then why de-escalate? This doesn’t match the usual « escalation » pattern of murders who start out in petty crime. If it was murder because of an accident, then why continue with the same MO? I still think that there are a lot of missing jigsaw puzzle pieces that either don’t exist or I am not privy to, that make me prevaricate on what happened to MB. Let’s hope the rolling stone gathering moss continues to reveal evidence that either pre-dates MB or at least is contemporaneous.

Maybe not an escalation but a mistake?

 

[gymtonic]

Maybe not an escalation but a mistake?

Yes, and still begs the question that if you are a »seasoned con » artist and your MO results in a »death » then that means it is risky, so why repeat the pattern of con? Why not switch to a less risky con? I would still love to see an experienced profiler‘s perspective on this.

Plus, I would like to see whether the evolution to online romance scams (generally worldwide) became a feature/ factor.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes, and still begs the question that if you are a »seasoned con » artist and your MO results in a »death » then that means it is risky, so why repeat the pattern of con? Why not switch to a less risky con? I would still love to see an experienced profiler‘s perspective on this.

You've said what has been niggling away at me. If your modus operandi ended with the death of someone, why keep on with that same MO and risk attracting attention to yourself.

My thinking is that he considers himself as of such superior intelligence that he can cover his tracks and outwit the authoratives.

I think he "honed his craft" and figured out what mistakes he had made in the past that landed him in jail.
He learned from his mistakes.

But I'm not a profiler

 

[Martinie]

They're releasing more info on the weekend in The Australian, so hopefully someone can post here when it's out!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The tsunami of news starring RB continues!

What next, a movie...

 

[gymtonic]

You've said what has been niggling away at me. If your modus operandi ended with the death of someone, why keep on with that same MO and risk attracting attention to yourself.

My thinking is that he considers himself as of such superior intelligence that he can cover his tracks and outwit the authoratives.

I think he "honed his craft" and figured out what mistakes he had made in the past that landed him in jail.
He learned from his mistakes.

But I'm not a profiler

From my reading in this area (again I am not a profiler either!), romance scams rarely end in murder. Financial loss, identity theft, emotional harm, rape and sexual offences are all listed as common impacts, but murder is rare (I will state IMO but from readings of research reports too numerous to reference here.) Not impossible or unheard of, but rare. So yes, that one time could be an outlier and he could be self-delusional that it was his fault…presumably lots of explanations in his psychology. As a pattern though it doesn’t make sense….

…You would think that if you had murdered, killed by accident or caused death during a romance con, and you thought you had got away with it in the short term, the last thing you would do would be to keep doing it with the risk of being found out and then drawing attention back to a previous event which links you with a missing person. It’s hardly covering your tracks is it? So that leaves us with the lucky Dunning-Kruger Effect! IMO JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

This French serial killer and conman sometimes comes to my mind.

Henri Désiré Landru

Henri Désiré Landru - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quite a few similarities to Mr AKA

 

[Martinie]

The tsunami of news starring RB continues!

What next, a movie...

100% There will be a movie or TV series about this guy. How all these ladies met him at one point and all he has done over the years.

 

[Liselle]

You've said what has been niggling away at me. If your modus operandi ended with the death of someone, why keep on with that same MO and risk attracting attention to yourself.

My thinking is that he considers himself as of such superior intelligence that he can cover his tracks and outwit the authoratives.

I think he "honed his craft" and figured out what mistakes he had made in the past that landed him in jail.
He learned from his mistakes.

But I'm not a profiler

@TootsieFootsie You are so right that AKA has outwitted authorities and for over 50 years in Australia! He has certainly covered his tracks through obtaining multiple names/passports/licences, innumerable addresses, etc, and often. If a "mistake” was made with MB but resulted in obtaining $80,000+ for a few weeks work, that would be enough incentive to continue with the same MO and as you said, learn from the errors made. Sitting around for DECADES with nothing else to occupy oneself, have seen these nefarious exploits (imperfectly) honed. It is fortunate for the investigation that these other women have come forward and "paint a picture" of an allegedly dark, sinister, dangerous individual.

 

[Martinie]

From my reading in this area (again I am not a profiler either!), romance scams rarely end in murder. Financial loss, identity theft, emotional harm, rape and sexual offences are all listed as common impacts, but murder is rare (I will state IMO but from readings of research reports too numerous to reference here.) Not impossible or unheard of, but rare. So yes, that one time could be an outlier and he could be self-delusional that it was his fault…presumably lots of explanations in his psychology. As a pattern though it doesn’t make sense….

…You would think that if you had murdered, killed by accident or caused death during a romance con, and you thought you had got away with it in the short term, the last thing you would do would be to keep doing it with the risk of being found out and then drawing attention back to a previous event which links you with a missing person. It’s hardly covering your tracks is it? So that leaves us with the lucky Dunning-Kruger Effect! IMO JMO

It could just be a last resort if he's been found out... With all the name changing and secrecy behind his cons, I could see how he would make it work, especially with his apparent knowledge of "poisoning without leaving a trace" , because it was harder to trace back then.

 

[mishy66]

100% There will be a movie or TV series about this guy. How all these ladies met him at one point and all he has done over the years.

While it might be a platform for the victims of his disgusting behaviours and the families of those who have lost so much to have their voice heard, it is quite pathetic that movies are made about animals who behave less than human.

This may well be what he always wanted?
To one day be 'infamous' because in his sick psychopathic mind it is a way to leave a footprint on the world.

Personally I pray they DONT give him that 'honour' and instead dedicate the story / movie to EVERY victim that ever got caught in his net and that his name will be represented by one letter only, or AKA.

Regardless of who this animal is, it was ONE woman who didn't let her intuition, her love for her mother, her hunches, her obstacles by authorities, get in the way of searching for the truth. Because without Sally Leydons fight for answers he would have gotten away with everything.

The women in this sad and unbelievable story are the real heros. They are the ones that the world will always remember.

His Australian adult children will live the rest of their lives in the shadow of a monster. What a legacy to leave your kids.

He had no love for anyone or anything.

A monster. The lowest of the low. A piece of excrement.
Those types of people deserve no recognition.

 

[mishy66]

@TootsieFootsie You are so right that AKA has outwitted authorities and for over 50 years in Australia! He has certainly covered his tracks through obtaining multiple names/passports/licences, innumerable addresses, etc, and often. If a "mistake” was made with MB but resulted in obtaining $80,000+ for a few weeks work, that would be enough incentive to continue with the same MO and as you said, learn from the errors made. Sitting around for DECADES with nothing else to occupy oneself, have seen these nefarious exploits (imperfectly) honed. It is fortunate for the investigation that these other women have come forward and "paint a picture" of an allegedly dark, sinister, dangerous individual.

I think his MO started long before Marion...

JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think his MO started long before Marion...

I didn't say it did...

 

[mishy66]

I didn't say it did...

Yes I know.
I replied to Liselle

 

[*juniper*]

You've said what has been niggling away at me. If your modus operandi ended with the death of someone, why keep on with that same MO and risk attracting attention to yourself.

My thinking is that he considers himself as of such superior intelligence that he can cover his tracks and outwit the authoratives.

I think he "honed his craft" and figured out what mistakes he had made in the past that landed him in jail.
He learned from his mistakes.

But I'm not a profiler

I agree RB’s MO had included romance scams for some time, as we can see with his December 1994 lonely hearts advertisment. However, and this is MOO, MB was the first time he began targeting single women for their major asset - their home. Previous scams did not involve such large sums of money, which might be why we haven‘t heard of any victims prior to MB?

With MB he realised the amount of money at stake and he made a lot of mistakes chasing this money. He then took these mistakes into account for future romance scams - i.e. he spent around 8 months with MB (Feb - Oct) but for his last known victim “Charlotte“ it was just 1 month from meeting her at the train station to abandoning her in Bali. He also learnt to cut his losses early if necessary, so that when JO became suspicious he moved on.

JMO and I’m not a profiler either.