Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #18

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  • #41
I know part of this has been posted before but just a refresher.

The Department of Immingration etc's dealings with Mr AKA. All 173 Pages, including documents.


Is this another photo of him on page 16. I tried posting it.
 
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  • #42
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  • #43
I've tried to find a link of the police interview with AKA but i gather it must have been shown at the inquest and therefore not available online? IDK if that's where i saw it? Any feedback to refresh my memory as to how to get a link?
I recall that an extract of a recording of his police interview was played at the inquest since what he was saying on the witness stand contradicted what he had said in his police interview.
 
  • #44
I know part of this has been posted before but just a refresher.

The Department of Immingration etc's dealing with Mr AKA. All 173 Pages, including documents.


Is this another photo of him on page 16. I tried posting it.
Yeah that photo is his passport image in 1969 - its been up on NAA all the time the others have been.

personally - I don't think this is him in the photo though .....JMO
 
  • #45
Yeah that photo is his passport image in 1969 - its been up on NAA all the time the others have been.

personally - I don't think this is him in the photo though .....JMO
Was just sitting here shaking my head thinking the same thing.
 
  • #46
It's the first time I've seen the second photo.

I think I didn't scroll down far enough before.
One look at his ugly mug and I quickly turned the page :D
 
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  • #47

Correspondence from Mrs Andree Flamme. Letter with concerns about Australian-born Belgian, Frederick de Hedervary who is wanted by Belgian police.​

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  • #48
Was AKA's body language ever professionally analysed (or commented on previously?) when he was interviewed by the Police and asked specifically if he had done something to MB?
Also should have been asked
What happened to Florabella.
 
  • #49
I was just thinking to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to have AKA hooked up to a lie detector! I feel like the results would be off the charts and the machine would go into massive overload!
 
  • #50
I was just thinking to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to have AKA hooked up to a lie detector! I feel like the results would be off the charts and the machine would go into massive overload!
I was reading a news article yesterday that said that lie detector tests can't be relied upon. :(

 
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  • #51
Something else, not exactly connected with the case, but a useful tool.
A radio programme I listened to said that Trove only has enough funding to last til June :(
 
  • #52
I was reading a news article yesterday that said that lie detector tests can't be relied upon. :(

Yes, unfortunately not foolproof are they. Some people can outsmart the detector.
 
  • #53
Still can’t just place D in the victim column. She seems like an equally as masterful manipulator and comes from equally as dubious stock IMOO
In fact it’s the inconsistencies in reports of her behaviour that makes me more suspicious.
She’s the one adjusting the behaviour to position witnesses to think she’s scared, when other witnesses say she was certainly not.
Or maybe she realised what she had over him and started calling the shots? Maybe that’s when things went awry because his program changed with her involvement?
Who knows?
It just couldn’t have gone on for so long if she wasn’t facilitating it. All MOO.
IMO, we need to take care not to place her in the perpetrator column either just yet as I don’t feel that there is enough convincing evidence. For him, on the other hand, there are multiple corroborating witness accounts, official records plus his own words and behaviour on the witness stand that paint a definite picture of dishonesty, lack of empathy and a propensity for threats of violence and coercion. There is a very real possibility of domestic abuse directed at both her and the children spanning many years. Understand that it’s frustrating that she is not being cooperative when it’s highly likely that she is aware of significant information. She may have even wittingly or unwittingly been an enabler to him with his shady operations. She may, however, have not had a choice. She is certainly not the perfect victim. But with domestic abuse it is not usually black and white. Victims can sometimes display resistance (as in the neighbours’ story). This is not necessarily an inconsistency, just the reality of an abusive relationship. Not all victims are cooperative with their abuser 100% of the time. I can’t imagine that AKA would have been a joy to live with and it’s very plausible that she attempted to assert herself from time to time. She has been in the relationship for many years but that is very common in cases of domestic abuse when you understand the concept of entrapment. Why didn’t she leave? Like many victims of domestic abuse, she may not have had a choice. It is a well known fact that the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is after the victim expresses the intention to leave. There are plenty of recent cases that illustrate this eg Hannah Clarke. Perhaps Ilona was in a similar situation. Further, as a society, we have traditionally turned a blind eye to domestic abuse and as a result there is not a lot of support for victims who want to get out. There is more awareness now but we still have a long way to go. I just wonder if she did decide to leave now and cooperate with the investigation whether it’s realistic to expect that she would receive sufficient support. This man has been reported to the authorities on numerous occasions over the past 4 decades and he has never been held accountable and is still walking free. There’s never the guarantee of incarceration and she could be left in a situation where her life was constantly in danger. In addition, it’s highly probable that she has been voluntarily or involuntarily involved in some of his nefarious activities eg social security fraud, (also very common in abusive relationships) so she would have the possibility of getting caught for this Apologies for the long post but I believe it’s really important that we understand this case in the context of what we now know about how domestic abuse and coercive control operate.
 
  • #54
I was just thinking to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to have AKA hooked up to a lie detector! I feel like the results would be off the charts and the machine would go into massive overload!
Didn’t he offer to do a lie detector test during the inquest?
 
  • #55
  • #56
I was just thinking to myself, wouldn't it be interesting to have AKA hooked up to a lie detector! I feel like the results would be off the charts and the machine would go into massive overload!
They haven’t built a lie detector big enough to deal with this guy.
 
  • #57
I recall that an extract of a recording of his police interview was played at the inquest since what he was saying on the witness stand contradicted what he had said in his police interview.
Who can forget the redneck beard at his police interview?!
 
  • #58
The Burwash behavior (truck leaving at night etc.) seems consistent with him spending nights with some target/victim who probably was under the impression he was unmarried. The victim was probably under the impression he left in the mornings to go to work. That's my guess.
 
  • #59
IMO, we need to take care not to place her in the perpetrator column either just yet as I don’t feel that there is enough convincing evidence. For him, on the other hand, there are multiple corroborating witness accounts, official records plus his own words and behaviour on the witness stand that paint a definite picture of dishonesty, lack of empathy and a propensity for threats of violence and coercion. There is a very real possibility of domestic abuse directed at both her and the children spanning many years. Understand that it’s frustrating that she is not being cooperative when it’s highly likely that she is aware of significant information. She may have even wittingly or unwittingly been an enabler to him with his shady operations. She may, however, have not had a choice. She is certainly not the perfect victim. But with domestic abuse it is not usually black and white. Victims can sometimes display resistance (as in the neighbours’ story). This is not necessarily an inconsistency, just the reality of an abusive relationship. Not all victims are cooperative with their abuser 100% of the time. I can’t imagine that AKA would have been a joy to live with and it’s very plausible that she attempted to assert herself from time to time. She has been in the relationship for many years but that is very common in cases of domestic abuse when you understand the concept of entrapment. Why didn’t she leave? Like many victims of domestic abuse, she may not have had a choice. It is a well known fact that the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is after the victim expresses the intention to leave. There are plenty of recent cases that illustrate this eg Hannah Clarke. Perhaps Ilona was in a similar situation. Further, as a society, we have traditionally turned a blind eye to domestic abuse and as a result there is not a lot of support for victims who want to get out. There is more awareness now but we still have a long way to go. I just wonder if she did decide to leave now and cooperate with the investigation whether it’s realistic to expect that she would receive sufficient support. This man has been reported to the authorities on numerous occasions over the past 4 decades and he has never been held accountable and is still walking free. There’s never the guarantee of incarceration and she could be left in a situation where her life was constantly in danger. In addition, it’s highly probable that she has been voluntarily or involuntarily involved in some of his nefarious activities eg social security fraud, (also very common in abusive relationships) so she would have the possibility of getting caught for this Apologies for the long post but I believe it’s really important that we understand this case in the context of what we now know about how domestic abuse and coercive control operate.
As a person who has experienced the court system for this exact reason I agree, your opinion is entirely valid and a good general reminder.

We also need to take care to remember that people “play the victim” incredibly well and use it to manipulate situations to their advantage.

Let’s not gloss over a potential perpetrator due to them being a woman (they can be misogynists too).

Remember, here we can only share evidence an available in public domain, but there is certainly more to this WHOLE family than google can tell you.
 
  • #60
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