Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #18

[mishy66]

I think it's a double edge sword, at one stage I am sure SL wanted nothing more than people to be publicly talking about this case, giving her theories and ideas as to what could have happened, but on the other hand that can become overwhelming and intrusive, especially now that the "TLV team" think they have this in a position where they have enough publicity and police support to be able to do most of the leg work behind the scene. But you can't just turn off the tap !! it was people's speculation, assumptions and gift for been inquisitive that got them here, this is peoples hobbie and they genuinely care and believe they are helping.

I know they would like us to be conducting our "speculation" in private and not in public

But also there are nutters out there that have no boundaries, will say hurtful things and insert themselves where not wanted - there is one based in the UK who is convinced Marion was killed by a politician (?) can't remember .....but it was batsht crazy and she wont go away

Exactly.

You cant have it both ways.
Pleading for anything that may help, no matter how small, has always been what they said.
FB is rife with hurtful comments by people who are nothing but trolls so they can delete them.

Here is a platform built for cases to be unraveled by thousands of people across the world and in this thread alone there have been MANY USEFUL leads that have seen their way to the SL team, while none of it gets recognised on their platform. In fact last year someone on that team wanted this shut down. That's because people find sssooo much great information. And some not so great, just like their FB page, along with many other online sites who are sleuthing the case.

TLV team were the first to accuse someone to this case in Luxembourg before they had found all the facts, no apology there for accountability.
So as more details come to light more information shared previously can be discarded and other new finds added..
Without places like this, the reminder is, ONE PERSON can NOT solve the case.

People here are here for Marion Barter and other women connected to this AH, not for glory. There is no "i" in team!
As you said KIWI, cant have it both ways!

 

[VisitorDog]

Did they want it shut down? I’ve never seen direct mentions, just wondered about the post from today. I hear you, I think some interesting connections have been uncovered here.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Did they want it shut down? I’ve never seen direct mentions, just wondered about the post from today. I hear you, I think some interesting connections have been uncovered here.

well if you think RB reads here then you can kind of see why ... The guys takes stories and moulds them to his own.

But WS has also uncovered alot of stuff that has helped the case and part of that is because this is a good place to bounce ideas and leads with other likeminded people.

You can't just turn off the tap when you want to, the public was asked to help solve this case and this is one of the forums to do so

 

[ruby925]

I thought J was referring to the authorities and people who knew Marion personally who made assumptions and had opinions about her disappearance..new life, didn't want to contact family etc. That's what stopped Marion's case being investigated in the first place. Without public interest, there would have been no momentum to get MB featured in the press and possibly no other victims of the con man found. And now, someone may just find that elusive last connection between MB and RB that will push the case to conclusion.. I do hope so.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Agree with both @mishy66 and @KiwiNZ

You can’t ask for help and then expect help to stop.

TLV may not want to turn off the tap as such but I absolutely believe IMO they want to control the tap… flow when it suits and only drip when particular things are mentioned that perhaps have not become public knowledge yet via the podcast. The podcast is for reveals not WS

There have been many things that have been discussed here that have taken a while to officially hit the air…

Podcast listeners are then blown away ‘wow imagine that’… ‘amazing find’ etc but I’m sure a lot of websleuthers tend to think about time this was mentioned!!

JMO

 

[riddlesandpuzzles77]

One of the things that gets me is how RB said that he stored some things at his place for Marion and the garbage about the pilot...... I feel that someone (perhaps his children) may have seen the chest or something and he covering his tracks if anything comes up..... part of me feels this aspect is vital to the case and timing.....someone must have seen them at his property! Literally his property! If only the person remembers or could put it into the context of Marion’s case and then penny’s will begin to drop....... just one of my many thoughts and of course just a perspective

 

[Littleguy7]

I thought J was referring to the authorities and people who knew Marion personally who made assumptions and had opinions about her disappearance..new life, didn't want to contact family etc. That's what stopped Marion's case being investigated in the first place. Without public interest, there would have been no momentum to get MB featured in the press and possibly no other victims of the con man found. And now, someone may just find that elusive last connection between MB and RB that will push the case to conclusion.. I do hope so.

That's how I read it too.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I read the FB post. I could read it more than one way, but today I choose to focus on the "facts" part. Who doesn't want facts? There has been so much speculation and judgement, so many theories. By family, friends, authorities, strangers like us. Sad thing is, often mysteries remain mysteries. We all know that from following true crime stories. It's the rare cold case that gets a confession or a resolution. I hope for justice in Marion's case. There may never be truth about her disappearance, but I can hope someone is held accountable.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Maybe to save confusion and us all guessing whom the comment was directed at, it would have been nice if J could remember her own comments on cryptic posts

Note below post was related to another post not the one we are discussing.

 

[mishy66]

Maybe to save confusion and us all guessing whom the comment was directed at, it would have been nice if J could remember her own comments on cryptic posts

Note below post was related to another post not the one we are discussing.

View attachment 420088

LOL

Yeah she did try that but soon realised it was a couple of webslueths that found all the information on
the white house', before she had a chance to post it lol!

And today we have another 'shall I do this".... well, it was probably already going to happen anyways so why ask the public.

We aren't interested in games, thats his department. We just want facts, like the rest of the public.

 

[*juniper*]

I don't know if I should be posting this, but it is all publicly available information. I recently compiled a short timeline to help me work out what was happening leading up to Marion obtaining a new passport. What is striking to me is how much extra work was created for her in a week when she was already under pressure due to packing up her house.

9 May 1997 – Transfer of property sale signed

15 May 1997 – Marion changed her name by deed poll to FNMR – did this require a trip to Brisbane?

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally’s husband was helping Marion pack up her house when Marion insisted he leave immediately without giving any reason. Possibly because AKA was due to arrive shortly.

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally sees Marion at McDonalds with an unknown man in the passenger seat.

16 May 1997 – Passport application in new name witnessed by dentist (I think this was in Brisbane)

20 May 1997 – Marion applies for new passport in FNMR name at the Brisbane Passports office (this is something that AKA could have done on her behalf)

@21 May 1997 – Marion vacates her house and moves in with her friend LLD

22 May 1997 – new passport issued – this would have required priority processing to be issued so quickly. I think this passport would have been collected in person and not sent in the mail, as Marion had moved out of her house and needed to keep her new name secret.

I was struck by all the extra work involved in a name change for someone who was already under pressure due to the sale of her house. I would argue that if Marion had changed her name voluntarily, then she would have waited until after vacating her house - this suggests to me that AKA was the driving force behind her name change... and it somehow related to him getting access to her money. sorry to be so repetitive & I hope I am not treading on any toes.

 

[brjakj]

I don't know if I should be posting this, but it is all publicly available information. I recently compiled a short timeline to help me work out what was happening leading up to Marion obtaining a new passport. What is striking to me is how much extra work was created for her in a week when she was already under pressure due to packing up her house.

9 May 1997 – Transfer of property sale signed

15 May 1997 – Marion changed her name by deed poll to FNMR – did this require a trip to Brisbane?

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally’s husband was helping Marion pack up her house when Marion insisted he leave immediately without giving any reason. Possibly because AKA was due to arrive shortly.

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally sees Marion at McDonalds with an unknown man in the passenger seat.

16 May 1997 – Passport application in new name witnessed by dentist (I think this was in Brisbane)

20 May 1997 – Marion applies for new passport in FNMR name at the Brisbane Passports office (this is something that AKA could have done on her behalf)

@21 May 1997 – Marion vacates her house and moves in with her friend LLD

22 May 1997 – new passport issued – this would have required priority processing to be issued so quickly. I think this passport would have been collected in person and not sent in the mail, as Marion had moved out of her house and needed to keep her new name secret.

I was struck by all the extra work involved in a name change for someone who was already under pressure due to the sale of her house. I would argue that if Marion had changed her name voluntarily, then she would have waited until after vacating her house - this suggests to me that AKA was the driving force behind her name change... and it somehow related to him getting access to her money. sorry to be so repetitive & I hope I am not treading on any toes.

This timeline made me think why move in with LLD? Surely given the pressure of all of these changes, AKA would have preferred she stay in a hotel or some other place of his choosing? His MO is to keep things from family members/friends so this just seems like an outlier to me.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

LOL

Yeah she did try that but soon realised it was a couple of webslueths that found all the information on
the white house', before she had a chance to post it lol!

And today we have another 'shall I do this".... well, it was probably already going to happen anyways so why ask the public.

We aren't interested in games, thats his department. We just want facts, like the rest of the public.

Maybe it’s all about classic FB algorithms to keep the posts appearing

If you ask a question or a tad cryptic you get more comments.

Musicians do it all the time to keep fans engaged

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I don't know if I should be posting this, but it is all publicly available information. I recently compiled a short timeline to help me work out what was happening leading up to Marion obtaining a new passport. What is striking to me is how much extra work was created for her in a week when she was already under pressure due to packing up her house.

9 May 1997 – Transfer of property sale signed

15 May 1997 – Marion changed her name by deed poll to FNMR – did this require a trip to Brisbane?

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally’s husband was helping Marion pack up her house when Marion insisted he leave immediately without giving any reason. Possibly because AKA was due to arrive shortly.

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally sees Marion at McDonalds with an unknown man in the passenger seat.

16 May 1997 – Passport application in new name witnessed by dentist (I think this was in Brisbane)

20 May 1997 – Marion applies for new passport in FNMR name at the Brisbane Passports office (this is something that AKA could have done on her behalf)

@21 May 1997 – Marion vacates her house and moves in with her friend LLD

22 May 1997 – new passport issued – this would have required priority processing to be issued so quickly. I think this passport would have been collected in person and not sent in the mail, as Marion had moved out of her house and needed to keep her new name secret.

I was struck by all the extra work involved in a name change for someone who was already under pressure due to the sale of her house. I would argue that if Marion had changed her name voluntarily, then she would have waited until after vacating her house - this suggests to me that AKA was the driving force behind her name change... and it somehow related to him getting access to her money. sorry to be so repetitive & I hope I am not treading on any toes.

I don’t think someone can apply for a passport on your behalf or lodge an application on your behalf. Unless it’s for a person under 18 then the parents can.

I might be wrong though

 

[*juniper*]

I don’t think someone can apply for a passport on your behalf or lodge an application on your behalf. Unless it’s for a person under 18 then the parents can.

I might be wrong though

Sorry, I think I got that wrong and should have said he assisted her to lodge her new passport application - I can't be certain if that was an option back then. I remember that JO discussed how AKA assisted with her passport application, and I am pretty sure that he at least collected it on her behalf. I will go back and check.

 

[*juniper*]

This timeline made me think why move in with LLD? Surely given the pressure of all of these changes, AKA would have preferred she stay in a hotel or some other place of his choosing? His MO is to keep things from family members/friends so this just seems like an outlier to me.

Good point. At the time Marion was not due to resign from her job at TSS until 14 July - that is a long time to be in a hotel. I doubt that AKA would want to stump up the cash. Do you think that LLD or Sally would think it odd if Marion chose to stay in a hotel rather than accept their hospitality?

 

[mishy66]

I don't know if I should be posting this, but it is all publicly available information. I recently compiled a short timeline to help me work out what was happening leading up to Marion obtaining a new passport. What is striking to me is how much extra work was created for her in a week when she was already under pressure due to packing up her house.

9 May 1997 – Transfer of property sale signed

15 May 1997 – Marion changed her name by deed poll to FNMR – did this require a trip to Brisbane?

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally’s husband was helping Marion pack up her house when Marion insisted he leave immediately without giving any reason. Possibly because AKA was due to arrive shortly.

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally sees Marion at McDonalds with an unknown man in the passenger seat.

16 May 1997 – Passport application in new name witnessed by dentist (I think this was in Brisbane)

20 May 1997 – Marion applies for new passport in FNMR name at the Brisbane Passports office (this is something that AKA could have done on her behalf)

@21 May 1997 – Marion vacates her house and moves in with her friend LLD

22 May 1997 – new passport issued – this would have required priority processing to be issued so quickly. I think this passport would have been collected in person and not sent in the mail, as Marion had moved out of her house and needed to keep her new name secret.

I was struck by all the extra work involved in a name change for someone who was already under pressure due to the sale of her house. I would argue that if Marion had changed her name voluntarily, then she would have waited until after vacating her house - this suggests to me that AKA was the driving force behind her name change... and it somehow related to him getting access to her money. sorry to be so repetitive & I hope I am not treading on any toes.

 

[mishy66]

I don’t think someone can apply for a passport on your behalf or lodge an application on your behalf. Unless it’s for a person under 18 then the parents can.

I might be wrong though

Yes this is correct, no one can apply on your behalf unless a child

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Wonder if RB was supposed to rock up to the family dinner with Marion before she left but he didn’t for some reason?

 

[mishy66]

I don't know if I should be posting this, but it is all publicly available information. I recently compiled a short timeline to help me work out what was happening leading up to Marion obtaining a new passport. What is striking to me is how much extra work was created for her in a week when she was already under pressure due to packing up her house.

9 May 1997 – Transfer of property sale signed

15 May 1997 – Marion changed her name by deed poll to FNMR – did this require a trip to Brisbane?

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally’s husband was helping Marion pack up her house when Marion insisted he leave immediately without giving any reason. Possibly because AKA was due to arrive shortly.

15 or 16 May 1997 – Sally sees Marion at McDonalds with an unknown man in the passenger seat.

16 May 1997 – Passport application in new name witnessed by dentist (I think this was in Brisbane)

20 May 1997 – Marion applies for new passport in FNMR name at the Brisbane Passports office (this is something that AKA could have done on her behalf)

@21 May 1997 – Marion vacates her house and moves in with her friend LLD

22 May 1997 – new passport issued – this would have required priority processing to be issued so quickly. I think this passport would have been collected in person and not sent in the mail, as Marion had moved out of her house and needed to keep her new name secret.

I was struck by all the extra work involved in a name change for someone who was already under pressure due to the sale of her house. I would argue that if Marion had changed her name voluntarily, then she would have waited until after vacating her house - this suggests to me that AKA was the driving force behind her name change... and it somehow related to him getting access to her money. sorry to be so repetitive & I hope I am not treading on any toes.

13 April 1997 -writes first resignation letter
24th April - Luke GLOVER writes about Marion’s resignation in the school newsletter stating “ be it Pompeii or Tuscany, Marion will be forever held near & dear”.... when he arrived at TSS in 1995 nothing but complaints about him. Something about this case has to do with him IMO

her second resignation letter dated 16th June 1997 to finish 4 days later on the 20th June

Looking at his moves also provides deception

17 Jun 1997 – Richard Lloyd Westbury (dep Aus) = false passport
the Westbury name was illegal because he had just changed his name again prior to departure

SL phones LLD home to speak to MB. LLD thought she was at SL…. where did she stay..? perhaps MB was taking AH to the airport the next morning…


In 1997 he changed his name to FdeH in the local northern rivers directory – the directory was in production for the following year……...1998

1997 FR License is not renewed.....


Willy Coppenolle Business Registered 1974
Discontinued, Since August 1, 1997
1 Aug 1997 - the day of SL last phone call with MB, when she said she was in Tunbridge Wells.