Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm asking this because I can't remember. I thought it was to officially open an investigation into Marion's disappearance; to establish evidence that supports the fact that she did not vanish of her own will and that she is dead. So for now the inquest is focusing on Marion fitting a pattern of women who were defrauded cruelly and criminally by the same man. Once they do that, do they then have to start a NEW investigation into the perpetrator of her death? I don't understand if Inquest #1 (this one) can establish anything more than Marion's being dead and that she was part of serial fraud. OR can this inquest also recommend that RB is responsible for Marion's disappearance?

I *think* the purpose is to establish if RB is connected to the disappearance of Marion, subsequent to her being formally declared a missing person by the police. And either following her being formally declared 'presumed dead' -or- in order to declare her as such. I could be mistaken.

Obviously, if the inquiry do conclude that RB is connected to Marion's disappearance and / or she is presumed dead, that would become a clear criminal matter and could force the hand of the police, nationally and internationally to step up investigations - maybe it opens doors that currently are not appropriate as her whereabouts it's considered 'unknown' and 'voluntarily'. JMO MOO

 

[mishy66]

Yes, I think the engagement clipping is very important! Particularly as it is connected to his Frederick De Hedevary name, which is his family name in Australia - the one he used for marrying Diane and having kids. He was clearly married at the time, so the they will argue that it's proof he intentionally misled a woman for financial gain. The clipping is a godsend of evidence! It's not just a he said/she said argument. Tomorrow will be interesting if his daughter is a witness. She is so brave!

I noticed yesterday you posted "Maite will be a witness" and was surprised
But now you've amended it to "if" and "daughter" .

Is she going to be ?? That would be a clincher!

 

[Mjjj14]

The purpose of the inquest is to determine whether Marion is dead and to explore what circumstances led to her death. If the court finds any person may have been involved with her disappearance then the court may make that in a finding and ultimately refer the matter to another body for investigation and potential prosecution. Hopefully that makes sense.

I think Her Honour will make a finding that Marion is deceased as sought by Cassledon last year. I don’t think the court will speculate at all about how she died. We just don’t know and there’s no evidence at this time to suggest anything. Hopefully police continue to investigate this.

I hope Her Honour will find that AKA was involved with Marion and has also been involved with other women in a similar matter as described in evidence at this inquest. From there hopefully Her Honour can ask for this matter to be referred to the Department of Public Prosecutions for this crime or any other ones that have been uncovered. JMO on the findings I hope for.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Two things.

RB did put forth the theory that Marion stole his Remakel Drivers License, or at least in my recollection he did.

Also is breach of promise still a crime in any of the countries involved. If so was this the case when he proposed marriage to any of the women who came forward.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Starts at 10am. For our overseas members, that's a bit over 100 minutes from now

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The purpose of the inquest is to determine whether Marion is dead and to explore what circumstances led to her death. If the court finds any person may have been involved with her disappearance then the court may make that in a finding and untimely refer the matter to another body for investigation and potential prosecution. Hopefully that makes sense.

I think Her Honour will make a finding that Marion is deceased as sought by Cassledon last year. I don’t think the court will speculate at all about how she died. We just don’t know and there’s no evidence at this time to suggest anything. Hopefully police continue to investigate this.

I hope Her Honour will find that AKA was involved with Marion and has also been involved with other women in a similar matter as described in evidence at this inquest. From there hopefully Her Honour can ask for this matter to be referred to the Department of Public Prosecutions for this crime or any other ones that have been uncovered. JMO on the findings I hope for.

I've noticed something that could be key.

The bank manager who says she (suddenly) recalled Marion after seeing her image on a billboard IIRC, stated that Marion said she was going to Bali to start a new life.

Those exact words are now being specifically referenced by AC during the Inquiry Day 15 as being the same words that JO, GGB, MC, and GDD report - having also (except MC) having made contact with the police in years prior to any podcast being in existence.

I have always felt dubious about the bank manager -but- since they have sworn this testimony and it must be held credible unless legally dismissed, and bearing in mind we have had a clear admission from RB that he was involved with Marion, this line of inquiry provides the clear link that RB is involved in Marion's disappearance in and of itself IMO. I believe there is much more.

JMO MOO, I am not a lawyer.

 

[Mjjj14]

Two things.

RB did put forth the theory that Marion stole his Remakel Drivers License, or at least in my recollection he did.

Also is breach of promise still a crime in any of the countries involved. If so was this the case when he proposed marriage to any of the women who came forward.

That’s right I’m sure he said she must’ve stolen it. ‘Explaining’ why she had access to that name.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Marion Barter disappearance: Ric Blum rejects testimony of four other witnesses before inquest

Key witness asserts other women’s statements are ‘all lies’ and says he believes Marion Barter is still alive

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mjjj14]

I've noticed something that could be key.

The bank manager who says she (suddenly) recalled Marion after seeing her image on a billboard IIRC, stated that Marion said she was going to Bali to start a new life.

Those exact words are now being specifically referenced by AC during the Inquiry Day 15 as being the same words that JO, GGB, MC, and GDD report - having also (except MC) having made contact with the police in years prior to any podcast being in existence.

I have always felt dubious about the bank manager -but- since they have sworn this testimony and it must be held credible unless legally dismissed, and bearing in mind we have had a clear admission from RB that he was involved with Marion, this line of inquiry provides the clear link that RB is involved in Marion's disappearance in and of itself IMO. I believe there is much more.

JMO MOO, I am not a lawyer.

I agree with you that it’s now starting to feel like all of these Bali connections and perhaps JH’s evidence has some weight. I also thought that her story wasn’t very credible at the time (JMO), however I have always thought that Marion probably did withdraw the money herself after returning to Australia.

I know it’s sworn evidence but a court is still able to find that a witness isn’t credible or has inconsistencies within their evidence and then decide what weight to place on that evidence (I mean that about any evidence not any one specific persons evidence).

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm watching the Inquest Day 15 now and not very far in but I don't think RB looks healthier than last time, as people up thread had felt. He looks like he's lost a lot of weight from around his middle and also his face, which isn't easy to do in older life. However, at his age, not being overweight is a healthier thing than carrying weight so it could be argued that way around.

Also he is no longer clean shaven - and growing substantial facial hair could be viewed as a psychological conscious or unconscious form of 'masking' or it could simply indicate he has no-one helping him with personal care or is no longer going for shaves at a barber.

The stutter is quite marvellously perfected because it sounds as if the microphone keeps cutting out or the recording is corrupted and not at all like an actual stutter. Hard to keep up and it wears off. If he was on video link, it could be argued there's a tech problem, but the problem is he isn't... LOL has he not noticed this fact? Then the cough suddenly comes from left field (insert roll eyes) when the questions get difficult.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Oh my!

'It's like a disc has slipped in my head, I have terrible headaches, and I can't remember accurately...'

Uhm is this building up to some mental health plea? Is having a slipped disc in the head a plausible defence for fraud and theft? If someone did have such a thing, it wouldn't mean they're not acting antisocially or criminally would it?

 

[gymtonic]

I've noticed something that could be key.

The bank manager who says she (suddenly) recalled Marion after seeing her image on a billboard IIRC, stated that Marion said she was going to Bali to start a new life.

Those exact words are now being specifically referenced by AC during the Inquiry Day 15 as being the same words that JO, GGB, MC, and GDD report - having also (except MC) having made contact with the police in years prior to any podcast being in existence.

I have always felt dubious about the bank manager -but- since they have sworn this testimony and it must be held credible unless legally dismissed, and bearing in mind we have had a clear admission from RB that he was involved with Marion, this line of inquiry provides the clear link that RB is involved in Marion's disappearance in and of itself IMO. I believe there is much more.

JMO MOO, I am not a lawyer.

At the same time though, the Bank Manager’s memory in testimony was demonstrated as faulty through her fixing of the timeline to Silverchair’s appearance at Homebake (see my posts at the time)
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
and
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

 

[hoodunnit]

I'm watching the Inquest Day 15 now and not very far in but I don't think RB looks healthier than last time, as people up thread had felt. He looks like he's lost a lot of weight from around his middle and also his face, which isn't easy to do in older life. However, at his age, not being overweight is a healthier thing than carrying weight so it could be argued that way around.

Also he is no longer clean shaven - and growing substantial facial hair could be viewed as a psychological conscious or unconscious form of 'masking' or it could simply indicate he has no-one helping him with personal care or is no longer going for shaves at a barber.

The stutter is quite marvellously perfected because it sounds as if the microphone keeps cutting out or the recording is corrupted and not at all like an actual stutter. Hard to keep up and it wears off. If he was on video link, it could be argued there's a tech problem, but the problem is he isn't... LOL has he not noticed this fact? Then the cough suddenly comes from left field (insert roll eyes) when the questions get difficult.

Haha, keep going. At the end, (especially when being questioned by Smith), the stutter is no more!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I actually thought he looked much more groomed this time. He's had not only his hair groomed but his beard as well.
And a lot healthier looking in the face. His face doesn't look any thinner, in my opinion.

 

[Mjjj14]

At the same time though, the Bank Manager’s memory in testimony was demonstrated through her fixing of the timeline to Silverchair’s appearance at Homebake (see my posts at the time)
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
and
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

I forgot about that entirely until now. Yeah back to not being credible IMO. As much as I’d love someone to have sighted Marion and remembered discussing Bali.

She could have still seen Marion and had that conversation and has just confused the dates but the silverchair thing makes it really murky and I don’t think much weight can be placed on it sadly. JMO. Damnit silverchair!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I forgot about that entirely until now. Yeah back to not being credible IMO. As much as I’d love someone to have sighted Marion and remembered discussing Bali.

She could have still seen Marion and had that conversation and has just confused the dates but the silverchair thing makes it really murky and I don’t think much weight can be placed on it sadly. JMO. Damnit silverchair!

I appreciate this has probably been long since much debated but is it possible she misremembered the name of the band, mixing them up for a similarly popular one, or transposed the years of two different bands she liked?

I once worked with a guy who was a computer programmer and analytical genius. He told me how usually if people aren't lying on purpose and they truly believe their account, it can be because they've transposed two elements. Something to do with how the memory works.

 

[mishy66]

targeted much

 

[gymtonic]

I appreciate this has probably been long since much debated but is it possible she misremembered the name of the band, mixing them up for a similarly popular one, or transposed the years of two different bands she liked?

I once worked with a guy who was a computer programmer and analytical genius. He told me how usually if people aren't lying on purpose and they truly believe their account, it can be because they've transposed two elements. Something to do with how the memory works.

Anything is possible. However I would say, if it were me and I was about to give evidence, I would satisfy myself first that my « memory time stamp« was accurate. If I thought something happened around that time and checked and saw that it was a different year I would be less likely to trust my own memory. As far as I remember she did not correct the record and AC used the discrepancy in his summing up?? ( IMO or I should say in my memory!)

 

[CuriousKat99]

At the same time though, the Bank Manager’s memory in testimony was demonstrated as faulty through her fixing of the timeline to Silverchair’s appearance at Homebake (see my posts at the time)
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
and
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

We also need to remember that with all of the other ladies, he got them to withdraw the funds from their bank accounts themselves, then hand over to him in cash leaving no money trail. So unless Marion was already deceased, why wouldn’t he have done the same with her…?

 

[caitlincurious]

I actually thought he looked much more groomed this time. He's had not only his hair groomed but his beard as well.
And a lot healthier looking in the face. His face doesn't look any thinner, in my opinion.

“Healthier” and “skinnier” aren’t always the same thing. Could be that he seems healthier as he is slimmer but I agree that he seems frail, and is acting that up.