Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Question: Did AKA take bank funds from any victim? To my memory he didn’t. Only cash, real estate, items of value. If that’s true, it lends credence to him twisting Marion to withdraw cash rather than his risking bank fraud. Cash is untraceable and can be construed as a gift. Walking into a bank and impersonating someone is a far more dangerous crime. If AKA did that successfully, seems he would have tried it again.

Then I’m back to him coercing her to return to Oz briefly to withdraw buckets of cash. AND urging her name change to pick up some more fake IDs — as proposed here!

 

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[centred]

Question: Did AKA take bank funds from any victim? To my memory he didn’t. Only cash, real estate, items of value. If that’s true, it lends credence to him twisting Marion to withdraw cash rather than his risking bank fraud. Cash is untraceable and can be construed as a gift. Walking into a bank and impersonating someone is a far more dangerous crime. If AKA did that successfully, seems he would have tried it again.

Then I’m back to him coercing her to return to Oz briefly to withdraw buckets of cash. AND urging her name change to pick up some more fake IDs — as proposed here!

Other women reported he always went with them if i recall correctly

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The Lady Vanishes

A much loved mother, teacher and friend steps on a plane for an overseas adventure and is never seen again. Marion Barter, the former wife of Australian soccer great Johnny Warren, went missing in 1997. The circumstances surrounding her disappearance a...

shows.acast.com

The Inquest Part 18

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Question: Did AKA take bank funds from any victim? To my memory he didn’t. Only cash, real estate, items of value. If that’s true, it lends credence to him twisting Marion to withdraw cash rather than his risking bank fraud. Cash is untraceable and can be construed as a gift. Walking into a bank and impersonating someone is a far more dangerous crime. If AKA did that successfully, seems he would have tried it again.

Then I’m back to him coercing her to return to Oz briefly to withdraw buckets of cash. AND urging her name change to pick up some more fake IDs — as proposed here!

That's my personal belief. For various reasons, including the ones you have given.

It would be a very high risk and a physical 'trap' to be in (or waiting at the door) of a bank with an actor impersonator whom one has supposedly wholly coerced and convinced on a very high level to join in with what is effectively a straight up bank robbery.

Not just the once, but over and over again, repeatedly until there's no money left.

It only takes one false step and the bank is going to secretly call for an emergency response. They have push buttons under the counter.

It may have happened.

 

[ruby925]

That's my personal belief. For various reasons, including the ones you have given.

It would be a very high risk and a physical 'trap' to be in (or waiting at the door) of a bank with an actor impersonator whom one has supposedly wholly coerced and convinced on a very high level to join in with what is effectively a straight up bank robbery.

Not just the once, but over and over again, repeatedly until there's no money left.

It only takes one false step and the bank is going to secretly call for an emergency response. They have push buttons under the counter.

It may have happened.

As far as we know, no other women were asked to change their name...perhaps after Marion, it was realised that a name change wasn't a necessary part of the plan, they could be persuaded to hand over all their cash anyway.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

As far as we know, no other women were asked to change their name...perhaps after Marion, it was realised that a name change wasn't a necessary part of the plan, they could be persuaded to hand over all their cash anyway.

Yes, the name change was an error that was evolved from it seems

But Marion left us a clue in perpetuity

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

As far as we know, no other women were asked to change their name...perhaps after Marion, it was realised that a name change wasn't a necessary part of the plan, they could be persuaded to hand over all their cash anyway.

It does make you wonder how many romance scams were there prior to Marion? It’s difficult to believe she was the first. The 1994 ad suggests he was already on the prowl by then.

The amount of visits in and out of Europe probably closely represent the number of women he has tried to con. Some of the Australian victims such as GG-B never left Australia so you can add them to that number.

 

[ruby925]

It does make you wonder how many romance scams were there prior to Marion? It’s difficult to believe she was the first. The 1994 ad suggests he was already on the prowl by then.

The amount of visits in and out of Europe probably closely represent the number of women he has tried to con. Some of the Australian victims such as GG-B never left Australia so you can add them to that number.

And why would you continually change your name...maybe to try and stay one step ahead of the law....that alone would add up to a lot of criminal activity IMO.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I mentioned a while back did AKA speak Hungarian. Listening to the podcast the answer was yes, fluently. And German too. Is AKA Hungarian?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

One parallel thought I had..
Why on earth would one get married in the same location your father would take his targets? (And surely if you were unaware of his doings, he would try to dissuade you from going to his destination of choice for a step of the con?)
Would it be to also have the union be more of a physical act and not really an official act? A feigned ceremony that was in fact not legitimate?
Could there be a pattern of similar behaviours in the next generation?
We know he had no issue with children being the product of a con.
Just an observation.

 

[VisitorDog]

Out of all names to choose, would you pick a whole new name to bizarrely match initials by choice, or maybe just a surname if expecting an impending union?

Well the whole thing is weird, but, I think Marion might have done it for a fun, romantic, wild adventure! Perhaps to surprise AKA (which I bet it would)!

Ghislaine talks about how he told her not to tell her children in advance because it would be ‘fun’ and I can see Marion getting swept up in that (the temporary nature of it being secret, the romance of eloping.) Who knows, of course, but it just feels right to me.

 

[VisitorDog]

Yes very good point. Changing the family name would likely have been something Marion would have been keen on. Changing the given names so the initials match his latest alias just feels like the AKA special touch.

Yes, I do agree it aligns with singing testicle type flights of fantasy, but I think that might be how he sweeps them up into the same ‘romantic abandon’ type of behaviour. Appealing to women that feel down, at a stage in life when that’s quite lacking. Maybe he called her ‘his little Florabella’ or something. She wanted to surprise him while having the right name for their impending marriage… we already know that Ghislaine said he took back the letter that would have been a link. So he doesn’t appear to like a trail, even if it’s another name.

Also, just thought - he didn’t get his letters to MC back apparently?

 

[KinseyFan]

Given all the testimonies, I really hope there’s a sense of urgency to make this man accountable and protect society. Given his age and his complete disregard for women.

 

[mishy66]

Maybe he genuinely just befriended her because she excited him he admired her. Since she had nothing much to steal, he kept her for the value he had assigned to her - friendship, sexual liaison, excitement, a foothold place to stay, a bolthole, an additional location to operate from, back up plan if it went to heck with his wife, come and go as he liked.

His scams were his work. His family also a form of work and responsibility. MC maybe was for fun and lighthearted times and not thinking of work or family. It might have been very genuine and playful. Even Narcissists and Sociopaths can be lighthearted and especially enjoy being entertained by interesting people.

The stalemate is IMO she's knows he's a dangerous and exploitative man, she's not going to lie to everyone and betray her fellow women who've been so severely abused or maybe even killed. But she's certainly not going to volunteer herself to make formal statements at this juncture.

She is very likely going to be legally obliged to answer to detectives enquiries and scrutiny at some point in the future. This isn't over by a long shot IMO. She may well know that. JMO

IMO He was in love with her and her in love with him. Then somewhere along the line he did something she didnt want party to, ( IMO to do with MB) and she drew a line in the sand.
Stalemate.
Far too much intel between the two to implicate both further.

Knock Knock - Hi TLV team from Aust, did you know a man called FR who lives in Aust.
MC - never heard of him.

 

[mishy66]

As far as we know, no other women were asked to change their name...perhaps after Marion, it was realised that a name change wasn't a necessary part of the plan, they could be persuaded to hand over all their cash anyway.

I think it was Marion who has paid the ultimate price, for she changed her name to the initials of his former lovers ex husband. And it is that very thing that has tied his long term plan to swindle the real FR out of money.
And maybe with the possibility of a get square with MC.

I think many of us here have said the real FR was the target and Marion was the scapegoat in his game of payback.

He was never going to try that again after what happened to Marion. I have no doubt he murdered her, just like he did Ilona K.

JMO

 

[mishy66]

It does make you wonder how many romance scams were there prior to Marion? It’s difficult to believe she was the first. The 1994 ad suggests he was already on the prowl by then.

The amount of visits in and out of Europe probably closely represent the number of women he has tried to con. Some of the Australian victims such as GG-B never left Australia so you can add them to that number.

100%
for every name change a victim

Three years between 1994 and 1997 that suggest 3 more victims

 

[mishy66]

I mentioned a while back did AKA speak Hungarian. Listening to the podcast the answer was yes, fluently. And German too. Is AKA Hungarian?

Spot on @Lord Peter Flimsy . I think he was VERY involved with the Jewish community from the time of RC through to meeting the K family.

 

[mishy66]

One parallel thought I had..
Why on earth would one get married in the same location your father would take his targets? (And surely if you were unaware of his doings, he would try to dissuade you from going to his destination of choice for a step of the con?)
Would it be to also have the union be more of a physical act and not really an official act? A feigned ceremony that was in fact not legitimate?
Could there be a pattern of similar behaviours in the next generation?
We know he had no issue with children being the product of a con.
Just an observation.

Totally!

No registration of Marriage there for her either.

Runs in the family

I think son, DdeH also was married beachside

 

[mishy66]

Given all the testimonies, I really hope there’s a sense of urgency to make this man accountable and protect society. Given his age and his complete disregard for women.

Something is up for sure.

I saw last night between the news, a snippet of what is to come on 7 Spotlight.
I did notice on the news Liam Bartlett was at the inquest trying to question AH

Anyways it said on the clip coming up on Spotlight - Marion Barter case, potential 2nd murder !