Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

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  • #901
A lot of this was covered in the inquest and podcast.

The 1994 advert was from a M (Monsieur) FR = AKA

The advert was placed over school holiday time and she wouldnt have seen the advert being in QLD, as per MB FB Page information

It has been mentioned on MBFB page MB met him in Feb 1997 - they must have evidence of such.

This "conman" doesnt know the meaning of Truth.

The Switz meetup he raved on about was all BS.

He met her in 1997.

Re the wallet stolen - SL has said her cc was cancelled and other cards eg Medicare replaced.


To collect money from the bank in 1997 a person would only need her original licence and her renewed 1996 passport that she got, prior to her 1997 NEW passport. The only 2 things with her photo on them.

If she walked into the bank with ONLY her new identity as FR, she would need to produce her declaration of name change.

As we know from previous victims he collects their documents prior to any movement on their part.
IMO he had MB old ID documents when he helped her pack.

He doesnt DO a thing for anyone.
Unless he gets some benefit from it.

He wasnt there packing as a helpful friend, but as the vulture he is.

JMO

Agree with all the above - although I’m not sure it could be proven that MB did not see and or respond to the 1994 ad. I have never liked the coincidence that MB’s wallet was stolen the same year the love bomber is out on the prowl. All speculation.

I still find it hard to believe that it’s MB doing these withdrawals. I know and understand her vulnerability, but surely by her return to Australia she’s smelling a massive rat in the drain pipe. (I do believe she did in fact return to Australia - but he didn’t even travel with her, his wife or soon to be wife - that’s a long flight for MB to really consider what she’s been up to, particularly after just speaking to Sally) she likely come at him that he was conning her when he insisted on her withdrawing her funds in amongst all these clandestine activities he’s been putting her up to for 6 months- All the while he’s still insisting she’s not to contact her children. MB was a strong family woman. I cannot imagine that sitting well with her. 6 months of playing games with her - I sense that is when it all went pear shaped for, dear Marion - prior to that first bank withdrawal. Did she find out he was a married man with children? She likely threatened to call the police or insisted on seeing her own children while back in Australia. He couldn’t allow that.

By 1998 with GGB, he’s changed and fine tuned his MO. He’s realised he needs to get to the money first - not the big trip first, then the money. That’s where he stuffed up with MB. Doing the trip first. 6 months with MB was far too long. She had become awake to being stooged. He knows he needs to speed things up. Get the money and get out of there. Or get the money then dump them OS.

Once again. Speculation.
 
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  • #902
He doesnt DO a thing for anyone.
Unless he gets some benefit from it.
Note today’s MPMB FB post of the Ballina Memorial Swimming Club Trophy Sponsors. Couldn’t help noticing that AKA’s Ballina Coin/Nomisma only sponsored 13 YR girls & 15 YR boys
 
  • #903
Note today’s MPMB FB post of the Ballina Memorial Swimming Club Trophy Sponsors. Couldn’t help noticing that AKA’s Ballina Coin/Nomisma only sponsored 13 YR girls & 15 YR boys
Of course, because he would know his kids would win those
Such a creep!!
 
  • #904
Im terribly sorry for the reposts. My post didn’t appear to be lodging.
I learned after trying to post multiple times and it not showing up, i just refresh the page and it's there.
 
  • #905
Agree with all the above - although I’m not sure it could be proven that MB did not see and or respond to the 1994 ad. I have never liked the coincidence that MB’s wallet was stolen the same year the love bomber is out on the prowl. All speculation.

I still find it hard to believe that it’s MB doing these withdrawals. I know and understand her vulnerability, but surely by her return to Australia she’s smelling a massive rat in the drain pipe. (I do believe she did in fact return to Australia - but he didn’t even travel with her, his wife or soon to be wife - that’s a long flight for MB to really consider what she’s been up to, particularly after just speaking to Sally) she likely come at him that he was conning her when he insisted on her withdrawing her funds in amongst all these clandestine activities he’s been putting her up to for 6 months- All the while he’s still insisting she’s not to contact her children. MB was a strong family woman. I cannot imagine that sitting well with her. 6 months of playing games with her - I sense that is when it all went pear shaped for, dear Marion - prior to that first bank withdrawal. Did she find out he was a married man with children? She likely threatened to call the police or insisted on seeing her own children while back in Australia. He couldn’t allow that.

By 1998 with GGB, he’s changed and fine tuned his MO. He’s realised he needs to get to the money first - not the big trip first, then the money. That’s where he stuffed up with MB. Doing the trip first. 6 months with MB was far too long. She had become awake to being stooged. He knows he needs to speed things up. Get the money and get out of there. Or get the money then dump them OS.

Once again. Speculation.

Responding to myself here to present a further picture of my thoughts. We get to know MB a lot via SL in TLV. What I’ve tried to do is view life through M’s lens. To walk a mile in her shoes.

In brief we have a wonderful mother, a caring and highly regarded teacher, a loving family woman.
She’s cultured, intelligent, well read, well liked, and immaculately dressed. She’s a fine woman who loves the finer things in life. MB is adored by nearly all who knew her.

We’ve also been made aware she was going through troubled times at TSS. She was devastated in regards to unfounded allegations. We know she was very vulnerable and had a relationship with RB.

Then the bizarre begins. Resignation, rushed house sale under priced, secretive, name change etc etc. All the things we know in a very harried and out of character manner. There’s no doubt this woman was under a lot of pressure to get an enormous amount done in very little time.

Her outgoing passenger card has her change of name and states she’s moving to LUX. Permanently.

In the UK she’s writing cards, letters and posting birthday gifts. By her cards and letters it seems she’s at least spent a fair amount of time on her own - while someone else is doing his usual, off attending to business, buying a house, a yacht, a school - or planning a wedding. Who knows! Life far away from TSS seems pretty grand. MB is about to go on the journey of a lifetime on the OE, to see Van Gogh - to get married and spend a life in beautiful LUX.

Next minute - for reasons unknown she is returning to Australia. This is where I’d like to think the penny starts to drop a little for her. She is an intelligent woman.

- She’s had a tough few months.
- She’s turned her life upside down.
- Changed her name.
- Been in a secret relationship.
- Obviously been told not to tell her children ‘let’s surprise them’ (we know this story)
- Like the others, she really knows nothing of this man who is mostly absent in their relationship.
- She speaks to her daughter who she obviously misses a great deal - tells her plans have changed. OE journey is cancelled for the time being - and that SL might not hear from her for awhile.
- No doubt a tough call to blatantly lie to her daughter. Could this be the moment the cogs begin to turn for MB.? Who really is this clandestine lover who I rarely see who wants me to return to Australia.

* It’s a long flight back - Plenty of time to think. Has MB already been forewarned that she’s to return to Australia to withdraw her life savings? A woman who only months before had prepared a new will leaving her daughter as sole beneficiary.

If I were in MB’s shoes - the first thing I would insist on my arrival home is to speak to my children and get their thoughts and advice on any plans to purchase a school (or whatever the money was for)

It’s 8 days between MB’s return and her optometrist appointment in Grafton (if it was in fact MB who attended this appointment)

It would take 16 business days to withdraw $80,000 in $5,000 increments. I cannot grasp that the woman we have got to know so very well spent 10 and half weeks (of a 8 day trip as in her passenger card) in Australia before the final withdrawal of $80,000 was made with absolutely no contact with her family. Only two days prior to her son’s birthday. Particularly when we know that AKA never spends much time with his subjects. That no one at all known to her never spotted MB in BB, Burleigh or surrounding areas that MB lived for a few years. Why choose the BB bank within 30 minutes proximity to Wollongbar - Would AKA seriously risk being seen within a bulls roar of the places he has lived in for so many years in the company of a woman who it not his wife. Why wouldn’t the withdrawals be done at a CBA in Brisbane were she flew in.

I could go on and on, but here’s a brief summary of why I can’t get my head around it being Marion who withdrew the money.
 
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  • #906
So agree. We know Marion flies into London Heathrow. I don’t believe she would have arranged the accommodation in Tunbridge Wells on her arrival 50 plus miles away. In fact I don’t believe she organised any accommodation or hire cars. More likely the man who knew the area well and arrived a few days beforehand.
 
  • #907
Someone refresh my memory please - were the allegations against Marion at TSS (alluded to by MrPickles above) re child abuse? What was the timeline (if any) regarding these? Pre or post meeting RB?

Is it possible someone was blackmailing/manipulating Marion and driving her into a vulnerable state in which she could be more easily taken advantage of? That RB himself made anonymous tips to the school to undermine Marion, to destroy the foundation of her life (which is clearly her work) encourage her to up and leave to UK?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
 
  • #908
Someone refresh my memory please - were the allegations against Marion at TSS (alluded to by MrPickles above) re child abuse? What was the timeline (if any) regarding these? Pre or post meeting RB?

Is it possible someone was blackmailing/manipulating Marion and driving her into a vulnerable state in which she could be more easily taken advantage of? That RB himself made anonymous tips to the school to undermine Marion, to destroy the foundation of her life (which is clearly her work) encourage her to up and leave to UK?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

IIRC there were some allegations of historic abuse being levelled at TSS that weren't anything to do with Marion.
 
  • #909
Someone refresh my memory please - were the allegations against Marion at TSS (alluded to by MrPickles above) re child abuse? What was the timeline (if any) regarding these? Pre or post meeting RB?

Is it possible someone was blackmailing/manipulating Marion and driving her into a vulnerable state in which she could be more easily taken advantage of? That RB himself made anonymous tips to the school to undermine Marion, to destroy the foundation of her life (which is clearly her work) encourage her to up and leave to UK?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Don’t quote me but I think it in ep 3 (ish) of TLV that a senior teacher (cannot recall her name) had to write a report on MB - based on a student teacher’s account of rough handling of a child by MB. Later there were accusations made against the school which didn’t involve MB. IIRC.
 
  • #910
Someone refresh my memory please - were the allegations against Marion at TSS (alluded to by MrPickles above) re child abuse? What was the timeline (if any) regarding these? Pre or post meeting RB?

Is it possible someone was blackmailing/manipulating Marion and driving her into a vulnerable state in which she could be more easily taken advantage of? That RB himself made anonymous tips to the school to undermine Marion, to destroy the foundation of her life (which is clearly her work) encourage her to up and leave to UK?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
My understanding is that the allegations about Marion came up around the same time as her relationship with AKA. Allegedly she had smacked one of the young boys at the school. Given what happened with GGB several years later it’s hard not to wonder if AKA was behind the allegations about Marion. It’s certainly consistent with his MO and would have been a very effective way to make her feel vulnerable and compliant.
 
  • #911
Responding to myself here to present a further picture of my thoughts. We get to know MB a lot via SL in TLV. What I’ve tried to do is view life through M’s lens. To walk a mile in her shoes.

In brief we have a wonderful mother, a caring and highly regarded teacher, a loving family woman.
She’s cultured, intelligent, well read, well liked, and immaculately dressed. She’s a fine woman who loves the finer things in life. MB is adored by nearly all who knew her.

We’ve also been made aware she was going through troubled times at TSS. She was devastated in regards to unfounded allegations. We know she was very vulnerable and had a relationship with RB.

Then the bizarre begins. Resignation, rushed house sale under priced, secretive, name change etc etc. All the things we know in a very harried and out of character manner. There’s no doubt this woman was under a lot of pressure to get an enormous amount done in very little time.

Her outgoing passenger card has her change of name and states she’s moving to LUX. Permanently.

In the UK she’s writing cards, letters and posting birthday gifts. By her cards and letters it seems she’s at least spent a fair amount of time on her own - while someone else is doing his usual, off attending to business, buying a house, a yacht, a school - or planning a wedding. Who knows! Life far away from TSS seems pretty grand. MB is about to go on the journey of a lifetime on the OE, to see Van Gogh - to get married and spend a life in beautiful LUX.

Next minute - for reasons unknown she is returning to Australia. This is where I’d like to think the penny starts to drop a little for her. She is an intelligent woman.

- She’s had a tough few months.
- She’s turned her life upside down.
- Changed her name.
- Been in a secret relationship.
- Obviously been told not to tell her children ‘let’s surprise them’ (we know this story)
- Like the others, she really knows nothing of this man who is mostly absent in their relationship.
- She speaks to her daughter who she obviously misses a great deal - tells her plans have changed. OE journey is cancelled for the time being - and that SL might not hear from her for awhile.
- No doubt a tough call to blatantly lie to her daughter. Could this be the moment the cogs begin to turn for MB.? Who really is this clandestine lover who I rarely see who wants me to return to Australia.

* It’s a long flight back - Plenty of time to think. Has MB already been forewarned that she’s to return to Australia to withdraw her life savings? A woman who only months before had prepared a new will leaving her daughter as sole beneficiary.

If I were in MB’s shoes - the first thing I would insist on my arrival home is to speak to my children and get their thoughts and advice on any plans to purchase a school (or whatever the money was for)

It’s 8 days between MB’s return and her optometrist appointment in Grafton (if it was in fact MB who attended this appointment)

It would take 16 business days to withdraw $80,000 in $5,000 increments. I cannot grasp that the woman we have got to know so very well spent 10 and half weeks (of a 8 day trip as in her passenger card) in Australia before the final withdrawal of $80,000 was made with absolutely no contact with her family. Only two days prior to her son’s birthday. Particularly when we know that AKA never spends much time with his subjects. That no one at all known to her never spotted MB in BB, Burleigh or surrounding areas that MB lived for a few years. Why choose the BB bank within 30 minutes proximity to Wollongbar - Would AKA seriously risk being seen within a bulls roar of the places he has lived in for so many years in the company of a woman who it not his wife. Why wouldn’t the withdrawals be done at a CBA in Brisbane were she flew in.

I could go on and on, but here’s a brief summary of why I can’t get my head around it being Marion who withdrew the money.
It has been said on numerous occasions that Marion lied to her family about all manner of things, so telling SL another lie over the phone would not be difficult.

It has also been documented that Marion blamed her children for the break up of one of her marriages as there was conflict with one of the children and the husband - the realities of life is not all happy families unfortunately. We have to look at all the avenues not what we wish there to be. SL has said herself it was challenging.


1 Aug 1997 - the day MB calls SL , claiming to be in Tunbridge Wells
1 August 1997 - The closure of Willy Coppenolle business - registered since 1974

2 August - passenger card for Florabella R arrives into Australia, originating out of Amsterdam

7 August - the postcard sent to Marions sister with the Tunbridge Wells postmark

7 August RACQ cancelled by phone

11th Aug - AH buys a car from Alstonville ( the exact place associated with Vernon Ware)

13 AUGUST - SOMEONE USING MB MEDICARE CARD VISITS OPTOMETRIST - so nearly 2 weeks after the passenger card arrives into Australia - The Grafton records show one visit for eye exam only

30 August postmarked - another postcard arrives to her sister

WHY would she start withdrawing funds from her account over 2 months when her passenger card states she is here for 8 days and her normal bank was in Ashmore - miles away in Byron Bay the tellers would not know who she was/ what she looked like as she had never used that bank before - and where was she staying over these months??? - so close to where AH lived? I mean she obviously thought they were "married" given what is written on her card, so I cant imagine she would be holed up in accommodation while he is home with Diane.

If she has come home to "buy a school" - HIS testimony - then she wouldn't be spending a fortune on accommodation for 2 months or more, hanging around doing nothing in case people saw her.....

He is the ONLY one who knew of her name change, so there is plenty of time for him to get started on his next plan while she is still OS doing her sight seeing and sending home postcards and gifts to family.

He is home with her old Identity documents and just needs a female he can trust to carry out the next step in his plan.

By all accounts it looks like Marion is back in Australia, lots of traces of her name playing out only 40 odd minutes of his hometown, and over a 2 to 3 month period.

14 Oct 1997 = AH pays $13 to put something into safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Bank Ballina, which only he can access. Commonwealth Bank document show 'automatic funds transfer

Byron Police notes say $80k was electronically transferred to another account - Possibly overseas " to start a new life with her partner" = dodgy as hell corrupt cop IMO - G.C. - now in charge of a retirement home.
 
  • #912
Totally agree with above and JMO but there's a 'trusted female' actor in all of this plus at least one or two corrupt professionals. They would have needed payment.

The bit I can't decide on is if M was lured back to Australia, she made the flight and was then around for a short while holed up in a hotel being fobbed off by RB, whiling away her time, for example doing her eye test, before disappearing. But where's the evidence of her going to Amsterdam? And the whole thing seems remarkably unlikely.

Here's another thing - what if RB has agreed with any other females involved to ultimately be the fall guy if / when this house of cards tumbles? A noble act at the age of 84 to maybe finally be the one who serves time for the decades of living in luxury. Plus if he's been involved with shady corrupt characters, his own safety may well be at risk from them.
 
  • #913
People, even mothers are entitled to a private life.

There are some things that no one else has an automatic right to know.

I believe Marion, like anyone else was entitled to divulge what she chose to, or not, to anyone else.
She was an adult, she wasn't a child who had to get permission or approval.

The sad thing is that it seems she didn't confide in anyone.

I think from the experience of being felt judged.
 
  • #914
i revisited a bizarre rabbit hole from way back after gleaning leads to the TLV page here today.

Widow details Jackson's torment as abuse survivor

This became common knowledge to the public in 1997 ..Does anyone else think it could be a catalyst to how Marion reacted to her job ?

I have yet to discover the actual date of Peters death in 1997 ..its late so along with other weird stuff i will sleep on it....

PJ died in the Nov 97 however the inquiries into abuse started in 96 ...and many things were being exposed ..
 
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  • #915
Responding to myself here to present a further picture of my thoughts. We get to know MB a lot via SL in TLV. What I’ve tried to do is view life through M’s lens. To walk a mile in her shoes.

In brief we have a wonderful mother, a caring and highly regarded teacher, a loving family woman.
She’s cultured, intelligent, well read, well liked, and immaculately dressed. She’s a fine woman who loves the finer things in life. MB is adored by nearly all who knew her.

We’ve also been made aware she was going through troubled times at TSS. She was devastated in regards to unfounded allegations. We know she was very vulnerable and had a relationship with RB.

Then the bizarre begins. Resignation, rushed house sale under priced, secretive, name change etc etc. All the things we know in a very harried and out of character manner. There’s no doubt this woman was under a lot of pressure to get an enormous amount done in very little time.

Her outgoing passenger card has her change of name and states she’s moving to LUX. Permanently.

In the UK she’s writing cards, letters and posting birthday gifts. By her cards and letters it seems she’s at least spent a fair amount of time on her own - while someone else is doing his usual, off attending to business, buying a house, a yacht, a school - or planning a wedding. Who knows! Life far away from TSS seems pretty grand. MB is about to go on the journey of a lifetime on the OE, to see Van Gogh - to get married and spend a life in beautiful LUX.

Next minute - for reasons unknown she is returning to Australia. This is where I’d like to think the penny starts to drop a little for her. She is an intelligent woman.

- She’s had a tough few months.
- She’s turned her life upside down.
- Changed her name.
- Been in a secret relationship.
- Obviously been told not to tell her children ‘let’s surprise them’ (we know this story)
- Like the others, she really knows nothing of this man who is mostly absent in their relationship.
- She speaks to her daughter who she obviously misses a great deal - tells her plans have changed. OE journey is cancelled for the time being - and that SL might not hear from her for awhile.
- No doubt a tough call to blatantly lie to her daughter. Could this be the moment the cogs begin to turn for MB.? Who really is this clandestine lover who I rarely see who wants me to return to Australia.

* It’s a long flight back - Plenty of time to think. Has MB already been forewarned that she’s to return to Australia to withdraw her life savings? A woman who only months before had prepared a new will leaving her daughter as sole beneficiary.

If I were in MB’s shoes - the first thing I would insist on my arrival home is to speak to my children and get their thoughts and advice on any plans to purchase a school (or whatever the money was for)

It’s 8 days between MB’s return and her optometrist appointment in Grafton (if it was in fact MB who attended this appointment)

It would take 16 business days to withdraw $80,000 in $5,000 increments. I cannot grasp that the woman we have got to know so very well spent 10 and half weeks (of a 8 day trip as in her passenger card) in Australia before the final withdrawal of $80,000 was made with absolutely no contact with her family. Only two days prior to her son’s birthday. Particularly when we know that AKA never spends much time with his subjects. That no one at all known to her never spotted MB in BB, Burleigh or surrounding areas that MB lived for a few years. Why choose the BB bank within 30 minutes proximity to Wollongbar - Would AKA seriously risk being seen within a bulls roar of the places he has lived in for so many years in the company of a woman who it not his wife. Why wouldn’t the withdrawals be done at a CBA in Brisbane were she flew in.

I could go on and on, but here’s a brief summary of why I can’t get my head around it being Marion who withdrew the money.
Agree. Seeing things from MB's perspective is crucial to understanding. There's much we don't know, so many missing pieces of the jigsaw and what seems like contradictory evidence.
I don't trust 'the wife', her evidence at the inquest was evasive at best. Bizarre that she accepted without question all his name changes, house moves, overseas trips & money coming back from 'relatives'. She didn't even know how to contact him in a family emergency, yet gave the appearance of being a normal, happy family unit. At times she seemed very nervous of saying the 'wrong' thing re: bank account, safety deposits, having two cars.... They met when she was young and she's very likely a victim of coercive control. Over the years she might well have been brought into his money-making schemes, at first reluctantly, then more brazenly when never questioned or caught.
Is it possible that MB, after returning to Australia, met 'the wife' who was introduced to her as a cousin/sister/friend/colleague who befriended her and even accompanied her to withdraw the funds with a view to observing how to act? AKA working with a trusted accomplice who could back up his lies seems more plausible. The fraud played out over several months and MB, isolated from family and friends, would have questioned things eventually. Could this 'friend' have been someone to reassure, take her under her wing and persuade her all is well? On the face of it it doesn't seem likely I know, but can DdeH turn on the charm when necessary and would she even enjoy the power? Might explain their unusual marriage.
All total speculation of course, not saying she did anything other than play her part as instructed. BUT if only someone close to these (and other) events would be brave, tell the truth and give SL some answers in the long quest to find her mum....IMO MOO
 
  • #916
Would be interesting to see outgoing passenger cards to Bali from the same time Marion’s passport came back to Australia.
I wonder if there was a cowboy switch somewhere.
 
  • #917
People, even mothers are entitled to a private life.

There are some things that no one else has an automatic right to know.

I believe Marion, like anyone else was entitled to divulge what she chose to, or not, to anyone else.
She was an adult, she wasn't a child who had to get permission or approval.

The sad thing is that it seems she didn't confide in anyone.

I think from the experience of being felt judged.
Agree 100%
 
  • #918
Someone refresh my memory please - were the allegations against Marion at TSS (alluded to by MrPickles above) re child abuse? What was the timeline (if any) regarding these? Pre or post meeting RB?

Is it possible someone was blackmailing/manipulating Marion and driving her into a vulnerable state in which she could be more easily taken advantage of? That RB himself made anonymous tips to the school to undermine Marion, to destroy the foundation of her life (which is clearly her work) encourage her to up and leave to UK?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
It lines up with RB calling docs on GGB when she had her childcare business...
 
  • #919
People, even mothers are entitled to a private life.

There are some things that no one else has an automatic right to know.

I believe Marion, like anyone else was entitled to divulge what she chose to, or not, to anyone else.
She was an adult, she wasn't a child who had to get permission or approval.

The sad thing is that it seems she didn't confide in anyone.

I think from the experience of being felt judged.
Agree. Especially considering RBs MO. Grandiose lies, instills a sense of urgency, isolates his victims, alienates their support network, etc. He might be a bumbling idiot, but I think his cunning deceptions and predatory behaviour could easily snare many of us ‘normal minded’ people.
 
  • #920
Are ‘they’ MPMB and others of the opinion that MB and AKA began their relationship in Feb 97 due only to AKA’s evidence. Or is there further timeline evidence I have missed that proves to fit his evidence?
 
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