Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[Newby171]

Yes and also remember she looked after a little boy "who looked just like Frederick/ Eric"

So IMO she knew he was married and it wasn't by a phone call. AS IF he was going to call his wife with MC standing there.

He is very brazen. I think he got away with so much, that he thought he was untouchable. I think a phone call to his wife would not faze him. I had forgotten about MC looking after the little boy. But who knows what story he spun to MC. And I also think “Love is Blind” And MC was swept up in it all. The hints were there, but she did not see them then. Perhaps later all made sense to MC?

 

[mishy66]

This is a very good point. We know he attempted to abandon JO in the UK, but unfortunately for him she returned before he could complete his plan. In that case he had only stolen jewellery and documents, which might not be immediately noticed. But in MB’s case he had her life savings.

Which when you think about Marions case only a couple of years earlier, why would he risk leaving JO in the UK when he potentially knew this plan wouldn't work and she may quickly fly home, if Marion did the same thing to him 2 yrs earlier ?

JO husband knew him and AH had offered JO a job after her divorce- (the foot in the door to his plan to swindle her )

Why was it he collected her new passport without her there?

He left her to visit her cousin (with no money or clothing which was still at the Amsterdam luggage storage) at his suggestion while he had "business in France". AH also had all of her ID with him.

JO was smitten by him, even when catching him at her house she said she still trusted him at that stage.

She was never meant to come back to Australia IMO. I think he thought that she wouldn't be back either - that she would be still there when he returned- that's why he lied to her saying he had booked a flight back for her a couple of weeks later.
Maybe time to collect her goods put them in his little safety deposit box he had opened at the time - and back out to the UK to meet up with her to complete his plan.
I think JO was one very lucky lady and her cousin saved her life.

If Marion came home and tracked him down and that went pair shaped, why would he stick with the same plan for JO a couple of years later, knowing there was potential for her returning quickly??? She was never meant to come back to Australia ever IMO

He's a criminal, he perfects his craft each time. He wouldn't be using the same MO after Marion if she did come back.

IMO Marion didn't return and JO was never meant to either.


JMO

 

[MrPickles]

True. We don’t know for certain but (JMO) the odds are stacked in favour of the name of FR? Marion’s name would have had to be changed without her knowing and it does seem she did play some part in that under his control.

It’s the fact Marion took at least 8 months to get to the end game. Most victims were ‘allegedly’ stung within weeks or a few months. He doesn’t strike me as a man with much patience.

Yes, LPF, an obvious change of MO after MB. The long game was too long.

I have wondered if AKA assumed that MB could access her Australian funds from Europe/UK through Barclays. I have sensed for quite some time the spanner in the works for AKA was MB having to return to Australia to withdraw her money. Then another spanner was the $5,000 a day cap on her account. His relatively straightforward plan of execution continued to face roadblocks. JMO. Then things went awry.

 

[MrPickles]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

I’m quite intrigued by some of the posts in MPMB. Perhaps my take is completely wrong but for me it seems clear AKA is so sure of himself he’s happy to hide his goings on in plain sight. Eg: MC and DdH a 2 minute walk apart.

Keeping in mind the post in regards to the move to Ballina on 26/10 - the post also stated it could’ve been much earlier that 26/10 … But the big move from Wollongbar didn’t occur until the 26th. Can we read anything between the lines in regards to this?

Is there any possibility that MB was staying in that very same unit block in Ballina while back in Australia? In the belief she/they were purchasing unit 6 (?) as their Australian holiday home that they’d return to to visit family once or twice a year. All while keeping up the ruse of ‘we’ll surprise your kids once we’re married’

Whether right or wrong it’s seems at least JC is under the impression that MB did return to AU. And with AKA’s high tolerance for risk very likely had MB holed up in either Ballina or BB. I could be way off the mark of course, but it’s worth considering.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

If we are to take the word of both MC & DdeH neither knew of each other until MC listened in on AKA at the phone kiosk. Can we all agree this is nonsense?

Absolutely !

They both knew about each other IMO

Never understood why the missus flew home pregnant with a little one for not very long and then flew back to Belgium and had her daughter.

Perhaps peeved off at him over affair thought she would leave him came home then couldn’t cope and went back him promising the affair had ended.?

Yet singing testicles letter was sent from Tasmania so long after M was born they were still in contact.

I believe they have known about each other for a very long time

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Which when you think about Marions case only a couple of years earlier, why would he risk leaving JO in the UK when he potentially knew this plan wouldn't work and she may quickly fly home, if Marion did the same thing to him 2 yrs earlier ?

JO husband knew him and AH had offered JO a job after her divorce- (the foot in the door to his plan to swindle her )

Why was it he collected her new passport without her there?

He left her to visit her cousin (with no money or clothing which was still at the Amsterdam luggage storage) at his suggestion while he had "business in France". AH also had all of her ID with him.

JO was smitten by him, even when catching him at her house she said she still trusted him at that stage.

She was never meant to come back to Australia IMO. I think he thought that she wouldn't be back either - that she would be still there when he returned- that's why he lied to her saying he had booked a flight back for her a couple of weeks later.
Maybe time to collect her goods put them in his little safety deposit box he had opened at the time - and back out to the UK to meet up with her to complete his plan.
I think JO was one very lucky lady and her cousin saved her life.

If Marion came home and tracked him down and that went pair shaped, why would he stick with the same plan for JO a couple of years later, knowing there was potential for her returning quickly??? She was never meant to come back to Australia ever IMO

He's a criminal, he perfects his craft each time. He wouldn't be using the same MO after Marion if she did come back.

IMO Marion didn't return and JO was never meant to either.


JMO

Perhaps the difference was Jo had no money. Marion did. So MB could have easily returned financially. Jo however didn’t have a cent. So maybe the only change in the plan was making sure she did not have any access to cash/travellers cheques/credit card etc unlike Marion.
Thinking Jo stranded gave him time to empty the contents of her house .. maybe stage a break in or something along those lines.
So when she did eventually return it looked like she’d been robbed?
Throwing out random thoughts.. cos I’ve got nothing left that we haven’t thrown around

 

[KiwiNZ]

I know I’ve asked before but assuming as many do that Marion did return to Australia. If her life savings have been stolen (bar the amount shown in Barclays), with no house and no car what would a perpetrator do? You can’t leave her wandering alone in Australia hoping there’s no comeback. One phone call to her family and he would be exposed.

But he did do that to his cousins wife, with no money and no way to get home from Bali - she knew his name probably had his address from exchanging letters, she even knew his direct family in Belgium - he couldn't have cared less

Maybe he felt it was safer, but with MB she was an Australian in Australia and possible would have more sway with the Australian police and could prove somethings ??

 

[ruby925]

Re MC and DDH, I know three people w who were in that situation, the girlfriend knowing the wife and family, even babysitting for the children while the husband and wife had a night out....obvs it all ended badly. So it would not surprise me at all if that happened, with only DDH being in the dark about the affair. JMO.
Re the women returning to Australia/home and going to the authorities about RB, we know at least two of them did and there were no consequences for RB except for the order to stay away from (was that GGB? sorry, can't remember). On the basis that they willingly handed over all their money, assets, power of attorney etc he probably thought no crime could be proven..if the authorities ever caught up with him in Australia with all the changes to name and address. Especially if the money was cash with no paper trail. I am not sure at this point that murder was part of the plan, although I do believe RB is capable of anything. all MOO.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

He is very brazen. I think he got away with so much, that he thought he was untouchable. I think a phone call to his wife would not faze him. I had forgotten about MC looking after the little boy. But who knows what story he spun to MC. And I also think “Love is Blind” And MC was swept up in it all. The hints were there, but she did not see them then. Perhaps later all made sense to MC?

JMO but MC is an important piece to this large jigsaw puzzle. The authorities surely can’t let it go that she has now said (and I’m assuming she is being honest) that this man was dangerous, owning firearms, had met his criminal ‘associates’, and was aware he was stealing furniture from the UK in his van. And this is only the bits we’ve been privy to.

I’m sure we will hear more from MC as the case slowly moves on.

 

[Newby171]

JMO but MC is an important piece to this large jigsaw puzzle. The authorities surely can’t let it go that she has now said (and I’m assuming she is being honest) that this man was dangerous, owning firearms, had met his criminal ‘associates’, and was aware he was stealing furniture from the UK in his van. And this is only the bits we’ve been privy to.

I’m sure we will hear more from MC as the case slowly moves on.

Yes, I agree with you. I thought she said in one of her interviews that she has been working with the police, the highest police?

 

[Podcast Tragic]

FFS...This is just torture. Can he please be arrested and charged with something before he dies. The web he has left is beyond belief . His family need to man up and save themselves from a lifetime of regret. It will never go away for them and I would hate to have to live with that.Seriously how can you live with what your "father""husband" did to so many women and you reaped the benefits of his despicable lifestyle of taking advantage of vulnerable women. How can you live with yourselves. You must all realise that this will never leave you for the rest of your life . You will never be able to escape your association with this disgusting man. Your lives are basically from now on . Someone among you please man up and admit to to the truth. Are we ever to find out what happened to Marion.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

FFS...This is just torture. Can he please be arrested and charged with something before he dies. The web he has left is beyond belief . His family need to man up and save themselves from a lifetime of regret. It will never go away for them and I would hate to have to live with that.Seriously how can you live with what your "father""husband" did to so many women and you reaped the benefits of his despicable lifestyle of taking advantage of vulnerable women. How can you live with yourselves. You must all realise that this will never leave you for the rest of your life . You will never be able to escape your association with this disgusting man. Your lives are basically *advertiser censored* from now on . Someone among you please man up and admit to to the truth. Are we ever to find out what happened to Marion.

Well said Podcast. I bet Sally is saying something very similar to herself every day now.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Re JO.

RB could have sold her house. She gave him Power of Attorney over her.
Plus yes he did get all her identity documents, and the title deeds to her house.
So in my opinion, it wasn't just her valuables and what he could ransack from the house that he was after.

I believe the ownership of the house was in his sights.

Either something was supposed to happen to make her disappear, or she would come home and find the locks changed on her house and him long gone.
If the authorities found him, he'd produce the Power of Attorney and say he had the right to do as he pleased over her affairs.

From an article re JO's evidence from August 2021

Searching for Marion Barter: a daughter’s 25-year quest to find her missing mother

This year’s coronial inquest into the case has revealed more shocking detail. For those of us who have spent years looking for answers, it has been confronting and baffling

www.theguardian.com

"The final woman, Janet Oldenburgh, told the inquest she was contacted by Rick West after her husband left her. After she was granted sole ownership of her home she said that West asked her to start a fresh life with him on the French Riviera. She told the coroner she had given him power of attorney over her “in case something happens” before they flew to Europe, with West carrying all of Oldenburgh’s identity documents and title deeds in a small tapestry bag"

 

[mishy66]

Re JO.

RB could have sold her house. She gave him Power of Attorney over her.
Plus yes he did get all her identity documents, and the title deeds to her house.
So in my opinion, it wasn't just her valuables and what he could ransack from the house that he was after.

I believe the ownership of the house was in his sights.

Either something was supposed to happen to make her disappear, or she would come home and find the locks changed on her house and him long gone.
If the authorities found him, he'd produce the Power of Attorney and say he had the right to do as he pleased over her affairs.

From an article re JO's evidence from August 2021

Searching for Marion Barter: a daughter’s 25-year quest to find her missing mother

This year’s coronial inquest into the case has revealed more shocking detail. For those of us who have spent years looking for answers, it has been confronting and baffling

www.theguardian.com

"The final woman, Janet Oldenburgh, told the inquest she was contacted by Rick West after her husband left her. After she was granted sole ownership of her home she said that West asked her to start a fresh life with him on the French Riviera. She told the coroner she had given him power of attorney over her “in case something happens” before they flew to Europe, with West carrying all of Oldenburgh’s identity documents and title deeds in a small tapestry bag"

Totally

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Totally

Do you mean -- that RB may have had all Marion's documents? (Since they've never been found) and left her stranded? Or that you believe that he planned a similar mission to leave Marion behind and come back to Australia to raid her belongings, in this case, her bank accounts?

It's possible that whatever didn't work with Marion (ie whatever resulted in her having to die) RB corrected with JO. Leaving her alone just long enough to take her things with POA. It really interests me to compare every case we know of and wonder what he learned from each one.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Do you mean -- that RB may have had all Marion's documents? (Since they've never been found) and left her stranded? Or that you believe that he planned a similar mission to leave Marion behind and come back to Australia to raid her belongings, in this case, her bank accounts?

It's possible that whatever didn't work with Marion (ie whatever resulted in her having to die) RB corrected with JO. Leaving her alone just long enough to take her things with POA. It really interests me to compare every case we know of and wonder what he learned from each one.

I can suggest one thing he'd have learned from each scam he committed - that there was not ever a single come back or consequence no matter what he did or how close to the edge it got. Until now, until recent history when the amazing sleuth discovered his personal ad.

Unlike his forgery behaviour that had him put in prison and possibly something to do with cannabis that came to the attention of authorities, his romance scams were peak pay off.

It's unimaginable to those of us who are no doubt mostly several decades younger than him to think that's how he's spent his entire life - grifting, chancing, lying, cheating, stealing, burgling, forging, identity scams, frauds, benefits fraud, confidence tricks, romance scams, property theft, menacing and intimidation, maybe murders.

No doubt he has a side history of running fake businesses, bankrupting phoney companies, selling things that don't exist, robbing investors or shareholders, getting bad debts written off, running up credit cards and store accounts and bank overdrafts, as well as embezzlement and tax evasion and fraud. On an international scale. JMO MOO

 

[wallyworld]

JMO but MC is an important piece to this large jigsaw puzzle. The authorities surely can’t let it go that she has now said (and I’m assuming she is being honest) that this man was dangerous, owning firearms, had met his criminal ‘associates’, and was aware he was stealing furniture from the UK in his van. And this is only the bits we’ve been privy to.

I’m sure we will hear more from MC as the case slowly moves on.

So very very sad just how slowly this case is moving along.

 

[Housemartyn]

So very very sad just how slowly this case is moving along.

I think it's incredible they've got this far and gained so much in terms of facts and evidence of just how warped his whole life has been. The threads have come from all directions and hopefully they will start knitting themselves together for Sally getting some answers eventually.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Something I do think that is interesting was him asking Evelyn if she wanted to be a part of an insurance scam.

That makes me think he perhaps doesn’t always work alone.

Also maybe he was going to burn JO’s house down as he strolled down the driveway…

Insurance money?

She was OS
He had all the documents he needed.

Easier than selling the house that takes time.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Easier than selling the house that takes time.

I''m thinking that he may have already had someone lined up to sell it to, privately.