Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe it is the creepy feeling I get thinking of him owning a piece of that beautiful place, “out in the middle of nowhere” as one travel writer described Nymboida on his blog.

I wonder if he's ever had a go at selling the Sydney Harbour Bridge

 

[MrPickles]

In and amongst Mr. AKA’s ridiculous posterings is the claim of owning part of the Nymboida forest.

For some reason I can’t let this go.

Maybe it is the creepy feeling I get thinking of him owning a piece of that beautiful place, “out in the middle of nowhere” as one travel writer described Nymboida on his blog.

JMO, what do I know.

I too believe Nymboida cannot be dismissed as a point of interest. There are still a group of red cedars standing in a remote location from the old logging days. Of all towns to claim owning land, why that particular little one horse town? A wee town adjoining a state national park which was established in 1997. Smack bang between Grafton and Armidale.

One constant in this case is the geographical location of mentions. All one great big circle. How many of these townships can we genuinely call out as coincidental lies? I do believe there is a link to everything AKA says. As SL says, no stone unturned. Everything must be considered a lead until it can be genuinely crossed off the list.
Hence why SL has put a call out to locals in Iluka. Another small town in that nearby geographical location to Nymboida and Grafton.

 

[VisitorDog]

At this point in time - I’m sticking with the evidence thus far. I understand that some people might choose to protect themselves whilst giving evidence, I just can’t come to the conclusion we have many witnesses distorting the truth.

Just to be clear, in case this refers to my post. I’m certainly not accusing anyone of distorting truth. Only that it’s human nature to want to believe processes were followed correctly. Obviously something, somewhere has gone horribly wrong though.

 

[Kie22]

Listening to the latest TLV episode I was struck by what a dignified, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent and warm person Evelyn is. In another life or universe RB should be very proud of his daughter.
It seems strange but somehow right that she has joined forces with SL, what a strong pair. A message perhaps for the rest of his family. IMO.

 

[MrPickles]

Just to be clear, in case this refers to my post. I’m certainly not accusing anyone of distorting truth. Only that it’s human nature to want to believe processes were followed correctly. Obviously something, somewhere has gone horribly wrong though.

I wasn’t referring to your post at all - It was more in terms of my own consideration of who, what, when and how MB’s case was let down by authorities. It’s been very interesting listening to many of the witnesses again.

I admit I became so AKA-centric, that MB definitely did not withdraw her money that I’d forgotten how compelling some of the inquest evidence is. In my opinion only.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s opinion or theories regarding MB’s case. My post is merely a more detailed explanation of why I have changed my mind, and why my own personal theory has changed.

I will be not be surprised if the Coroner’s findings return that MB did return to Australia, MB did withdraw her funds, MB met with foul play on an unknown date after or around the 15th of October 1997. My opinion only. We’ll have to wait and see.

 

[VisitorDog]

I wonder if he's ever had a go at selling the Sydney Harbour Bridge

Or called himself Sydney Bridge

 

[VisitorDog]

Listening to the latest TLV episode I was struck by what a dignified, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent and warm person Evelyn is. In another life or universe RB should be very proud of his daughter.
It seems strange but somehow right that she has joined forces with SL, what a strong pair. A message perhaps for the rest of his family. IMO.

Yes, she sounds lovely. Strong and dignified and warm.

 

[Housemartyn]

The orphanage tale sounds like another AKA sob story IMO. And also in the grand scheme of things, it's doesn't actually matter. It's a shame that various different versions of 'facts' continue to arise though.

 

[mishy66]

Looking at the latest address of his in Tournai and the little stop AS makes explaining the fortified structure " Saint Georges Tower", across from his house and knowing he drops letters from names, the monument reminded me of Georges Peters, his so called 'business partner' that made his appearance at the 'hospital' where FdeH "resigned" and old Georges was put in his place. Some will remember this with the Furniture Company - (IMO the money laundering / funneling of the continuous companies set up and liquidated for the reason RP was set up) -

LINKS were in previous posts on the company

We know Pierre Soupart was a real person - thanks to @KiwiNZ and @Eyespywithmylittleeye - known as the man of twelve crafts and thirteen accidents, who tried to kill his mother and set her place on fire - but whether he was a legit Director in AH 'company' back then - I doubt it myself, AH possibly knew of him as a gambling mate in Knokke Heist and used his name only on his " business company docs".

In any case, we do know for fact now that Fredy David was still alive back then so he could have been a true share holder - I think so (that puts a whole new spin on this now).

And we did find some business links to a Georges Peters at the time - whether it connects to AH or not no idea.

Anyways straight across the road from the residence is Saint Georges - a Historical landmark as AS showed
The Saint-Georges tower, contemporary of the Red Fort, is one of the witnesses of the first communal enclosure of Tournai.

It is now part of the garden of the former Peeters Hotel which houses the Puppet Museum.
Behind the hotel is a park giving access to the Saint-Georges tower, a fortified witness to the first municipal enclosure of Tournai

It is a 3 minute walk from St Georges to another great Tournai monument Roger Delannay

The placement of gates at the entrances to Square Roger Delannay marks the end of the Fort Rouge revitalization process.

Roger Delannay pilote tournai tournaisien

stele roger delannay tournai aviateur tournaisiens

www.senegaldiv.com

I just thought the coincidences were interesting

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The orphanage story was given by RB. Marion's Facebook team have recently said that his mother lost one leg (not both) and RB was taken in by his Aunt and did not go into an orphanage.. I can only presume this info came from living family members, eg the relative who was on the latest podcast.

I think the poster is reacting to the latest podcast, in which Alison very clearly states that RB was in an orphanage until 1951 when he was almost a teenager (first 5 min of episode). If this is misinformation then it’s just bad journalism to leave it uncorrected. however, no offence to J, but her FB comments aren’t always accurate. I don’t think we should be so quick to assume we have the facts straight and they don’t

Thanks. Yes I was quoting from the latest podcast. It still doesn’t explain his fluency in Hungarian unless as Mr Pickles said it was Hungarian refugees.

What I’m hinting at here, and many will think this very improbable, is do we have an imposter? This is a guy who has been stealing other peoples identities and we know he was charged with false impersonation long before Marion.

Who was the child buried alive if we consider for one second this story told to Evelyn has an element of truth?

According to the latest podcast the ‘orse story might(?) be true. Not something I was at all convinced of previously. With regard to that story you would hope someone from the Belgian Gendarmerie would come forward to confirm one way or other.

 

[Procrastinator]

Been listening again on YouTube the Coroner's Court "Inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter" Day twelve. At 4:30:17 AH is reminded of his Police statement that he said Marion called him on the phone (blah blah about "storing some boxes"). IMOO AH knew that Police could verify, through phone records, the connection to MB and him. I think MB did have his Wollongbar phone number.

 

[mishy66]

Hi all, the orphanage issue was confusing me - I know it may not seem important to some but I find it so. I messaged the MPMB page (with a preface that they shouldn’t feel obliged to respond). I got a reply saying the following (mod please delete if not allowed):

Hello Caitlin, It is a tricky situation at the moment. Perhaps contact the podcast team to clarify what evidence this assertion is based on, as this is not aligning with the direct knowledge of the family members I have spoken with at length. One of their mothers lived with him throughout his childhood up to age of 11 when his mother married Abel Wouters and they moved away. She was clear that it is just another lie from him, and Maria, her Aunt did not abandon him, therefore, this is not where his issues with women originated. We really try hard here at MPMB to be very evidence-based as this case if complex enough ! We get things wrong too, but seek to correct when we realise. Cheers , Joni

grateful to receive a reply…but frustrated that the podcast may be making these statements without any evidence

Yes just as I thought.
Fracture in both camps.
Still convinced MBFB Page is the truth. JPC would know the family facts. No orphanage.

 

[MrPickles]

Hi all, the orphanage issue was confusing me - I know it may not seem important to some but I find it so. I messaged the MPMB page (with a preface that they shouldn’t feel obliged to respond). I got a reply saying the following (mod please delete if not allowed):

Hello Caitlin, It is a tricky situation at the moment. Perhaps contact the podcast team to clarify what evidence this assertion is based on, as this is not aligning with the direct knowledge of the family members I have spoken with at length. One of their mothers lived with him throughout his childhood up to age of 11 when his mother married Abel Wouters and they moved away. She was clear that it is just another lie from him, and Maria, her Aunt did not abandon him, therefore, this is not where his issues with women originated. We really try hard here at MPMB to be very evidence-based as this case if complex enough ! We get things wrong too, but seek to correct when we realise. Cheers , Joni

grateful to receive a reply…but frustrated that the podcast may be making these statements without any evidence

Thanks so much for sharing this, CC.

I have enormous respect for SL’s, ‘MPMB’ Facebook team for following the direct evidence and not being swayed by fanciful theories which they cop daily on FB. Hopefully ticking off legitimate known evidence, the facts, and chasing down the AKA evidence as possibilities to rule out either way will resolve this case. Nothing matters more than finding Marion.

 

[CuriousKat99]

Thanks. Yes I was quoting from the latest podcast. It still doesn’t explain his fluency in Hungarian unless as Mr Pickles said it was Hungarian refugees.

What I’m hinting at here, and many will think this very improbable, is do we have an imposter? This is a guy who has been stealing other peoples identities and we know he was charged with false impersonation long before Marion.

Who was the child buried alive if we consider for one second this story told to Evelyn has an element of truth?

According to the latest podcast the ‘orse story might(?) be true. Not something I was at all convinced of previously. With regard to that story you would hope someone from the Belgian Gendarmerie would come forward to confirm one way or other.

In terms of his fluency in Hungarian, we don’t really know just how fluent he was. He may have picked up some simple conversational Hungarian from IK and her family while working on that “inheritance” job. To a non Hungarian speaker, like MC, it may have sounded fluent.

 

[NSh]

Yes and he added more issues for her to deal with with his report of her at the school , she would have been confiding in him things he could use in the con ...IMO only

while it is fresh , I wonder now if the move to Wollongbar was in anyway related to the contact Evelyn had with him re the recent podcast in 95/96 ? she could not quite pin down the date ,
Dianne receiving a call like that would have caused issues and they moved, cancelled the phone number etc.....As i recall she did not hear from him again until 20 odd years ago when she tracked him down again ...

And yes some descrepences re her having his contact number or his having hers at same stage too ....
perhaps she did have a contact before or after the move...at work , home , ...whatever ...he may have dropped out of her radar for awhile and then reconnected down the track , hence both are true , she connected to him through add .. lost contact and then he connected back with her when it suited ...

Anyway I am trying to keep relating stories we have to Marion ,trying not to get too side tracked ...

Its difficult because i think he has a tendency to obsess on "we are all bennieficeries "
And cash !!

Any chance she did answer that ad? Form a relationship, but would have nothing to with a push to moving overseas at that stage in her life. Is it possible they reconnected in ‘97 when she was truly vulnerable.

Perhaps through the story of her being 'teacher of the year'?

 

[caitlincurious]

I thanked her and then J followed up with this:

Thank you. Yes, we come at it from the angle that we believe nothing Ric says without an independent confirmation/verification. I am satisfied in speaking with two different family members who said the same thing that until there are admission records to prove he was placed there we say he was not. Obviously, Ric is very clever under pressure and cunning, so this is why we take this approach to his evidence. Joni

 

[KinseyFan]

Perhaps through the story of her being 'teacher of the year'?

Ah, great observation. Back in the 80’s, a friend received creepy calls after her photo was in the paper. The cops (back then) said it happened all the time.

 

[KinseyFan]

Perhaps through the story of her being 'teacher of the year'?

Ah, great observation. Back in the 80’s, a friend received creepy calls after her photo was in the paper. The cops (back then) said it happened all the time.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

In terms of his fluency in Hungarian, we don’t really know just how fluent he was. He may have picked up some simple conversational Hungarian from IK and her family while working on that “inheritance” job. To a non Hungarian speaker, like MC, it may have sounded fluent.

Possibly but taken in conjunction with him naming his family with a Hungarian surname perhaps there is a bit more Hungarian in him then anyone has found out yet.

 

[centred]

Possibly but taken in conjunction with him naming his family with a Hungarian surname perhaps there is a bit more Hungarian in him then anyone has found out yet.

I went down the rabbit hole way back when about this family and Claire with no idea at the time he name dropped to gain ..

I think it was discussed at the time and the suggestion that because this family had a very elite background with castles etc , that it may have suited his air of importance and connection fed his delusional import of grandeur of himself but who knows ...just for those who haven't seen the following link is just an iceberg to the history

K - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

%C3%A1roly_Khuen-H%C3%A9derv%C3%A1ry

The House of Hédervary

"Wolfer came from Germany with Heder his younger brother- both Counts of Hanneburg - with forty warhourses and three hundred knights in armour." - Illuminated Chronical

orszagbarok.hu

Károly Khuen-Héderváry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org