Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #21

[Deleted member 249471]

Reposting the inquest’s closing arguments (Casselden’s team’s point of view) paraphrased, because it tells us what they're presenting to the coroner as the most likely course of events, according to the evidence they have. The coroner can accept, reject, and add to it, taking into consideration SL's, RB's and Byron Bay Police lawyers submissions. But it's usually a good indicator of what we'll see in the findings. From what I understand, Casselden's team are like the prosecution - they work closely with police investigators and set the tone for the entire inquest:

(paraphrased) Marion wrote her passenger cards. She left and entered Australia. She was only going to stay for 8 days, considered herself to be married, and Luxembourg her new home. Yet she withdrew all her money and never left Australia again. She was alive and present and withdrew her own money.

In my opinion, this tells us that Casselden's team and coronial police investigators believe MB was alive right up until the 15 October. It really doesn't seem they're going to make the argument that RB had someone else pose as MB.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

In case anyone new drops in or needs a refresher, here's a repost of Marion’s final timeline:

Sat 2 Aug - MB arrives in Oz. Is married, a resident of Luxembourg, and intends to stay in Oz just 8 days to see family.
Thu 7 Aug - MB cancels her car insurance.
Sat 9 / Sun 10 Aug - For unknown reason’s, MB doesn’t leave Oz as originally planned.
Mon 11 Aug - RB buys a car.
Wed 13 Aug - MB uses her medicare at an optometrist in Grafton.
Withdrawals start at Byron Bay either Fri 15 Aug or Mon 18 Aug with a few days at Burleigh Heads.
14 Oct - RB opens safety envelope at CBA Ballina.
15 Oct - $80k withdrawal/transfer from State Bank Ashmore.
18 Oct - Owen’s birthday, Marion didn't call.
20/21 Oct - SL goes to Byron Bay to look for MB, speaks to bank and police.
Before the end of year, RB + family move from Wollingbar back to Ballina.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

In that period of time 18+ men had to join the military service (dutch: (militaire) dienstplicht). Between 6 months & 3 years. There were differences in tasks & you could choose that you didn’t want to use violence or weapons. Then you could do a civilian service. That was with the Civil Protection (disaster relief) or you could work for social and cultural organizations such as Oxfam.

It’s possible that IF his accident really happened, it was during this service. Which would mean he wouldn’t be really screened before joining & they would be less likely to kick out a crazy or lazy or manipulative man in that short of a period.

After seeing the 1985 mini series, I can see how RB would have THRIVED in the Gendarmerie and how difficult it was to kick out the bad seeds. Unless he angered someone with power within the Gendarmerie, who was also corrupt.

Teeheehee, then it's not hard to imagine he earned those shin scars from someone with a crow bar who tried to teach him a lesson.

I'm with Mishy, the scars are real but the disability doesn't seem to be legitimate - he seems to turn it on and off when convenient.

For those who haven't seen it yet, 1985 is available in Australia for free on SBS or elsewhere for sale/rent on Amazon Prime. It's sooooo goooood!

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I mentioned a while back but is it possible that Marion’s eye condition was irritated by 2 long haul flights to the UK and back to Australia within 6 weeks?

Was this why she visited the optometrist in Grafton on the 13 Aug after the date she should have left Australia again? Was she physically able to face a 3rd flight?

Also was she suffering eye problems after encountering Aka’s dodgy hospitality?

 

[Kie22]

Reposting the inquest’s closing arguments (Casselden’s team’s point of view) paraphrased, because it tells us what they're presenting to the coroner as the most likely course of events, according to the evidence they have. The coroner can accept, reject, and add to it, taking into consideration SL's, RB's and Byron Bay Police lawyers submissions. But it's usually a good indicator of what we'll see in the findings. From what I understand, Casselden's team are like the prosecution - they work closely with police investigators and set the tone for the entire inquest:

(paraphrased) Marion wrote her passenger cards. She left and entered Australia. She was only going to stay for 8 days, considered herself to be married, and Luxembourg her new home. Yet she withdrew all her money and never left Australia again. She was alive and present and withdrew her own money.

In my opinion, this tells us that Casselden's team and coronial police investigators believe MB was alive right up until the 15 October. It really doesn't seem they're going to make the argument that RB had someone else pose as MB.

Agree, but what is missing from Casselden's summing up is the huge backstory behind these random events. I don't think anyone can or should believe a single word RB said on the stand or to police, everything should be regarded with scepticism. At the very least he should be charged with perjury, or why should anyone need to take an oath before testifying?

MB was somehow being coerced/manipulated to keep secrets from her family and friends, something that I believe would have weighed heavily on her. She was a successful professional woman, used to dealing with people and life in a practical way. Being deceptive about her new partner, new name, marriage etc. must have caused her immense stress even if her postcards and letters home seemed light and happy. I think once back in Australia she would have been keen to see her daughter & son and tell them about her impending life in Luxembourg with a sophisticated, wealthy new husband. Of course RB couldn't allow that, there was a confrontation and she disappeared shortly after arriving.

Did she really hide out somewhere and drive around the local area unnoticed taking out relatively small amounts of cash for three weeks, before making a final large withdrawal into an unknown account? Anything is possible of course but this, imo, had to be someone else testing the waters, seeing if anything was flagged and preparing for the 'big one'. RB must have been rubbing his dirty hands with the thought of all that cash...and working with someone else close to him who does his bidding and doesn't ask questions.

I think the coroner has a very low opinion of RB, let's hope she uses all the power she has to instigate a deep investigation into his life of crime.
jmo

 

[mishy66]

Production of A Midsummer Night’s Dream | Theatricalia

Mid Summer Night Dream

GC Arts Centre
Arts Centre, Gold Coast (21st – 24th May 1997)

22 June 1997 -
MBFB Page asking specifically about this date

Not sure why they say June when the event was May

I see they changed the date recently to 22 MAY 1997

SO they obviously know this was the date that MB and someone else maybe, attended the Arts Centre.


Also it must be remembered that NOT everything was publicly broadcast at the Inquests / the page has said this multiple times now.
There is much the public do not know that is in the BOE.

The page has said as such many times now.

 

[mishy66]

..... but what is missing from Casselden's summing up is the huge backstory behind these random events. I don't think anyone can or should believe a single word RB said on the stand or to police, everything should be regarded with scepticism.....

Agree 100%
He was the only one that said MB had his number and address.

He lied all the way through the inquests or padded slight truths with manure. Just like she did.


They know they had some of MB things in the house and were covering their a*ses because they lied to the kids about the goods at the house

Not a chance in hell MB went to his house
IMO

 

[mishy66]

AH you knew an actor by the name of etcheverry, didn't you.....
Love you to answer this

 

[Brown Alleycat]

AH you knew an actor by the name of etcheverry, didn't you.....
Love you to answer this

Sounds like you've been busy Mishy! I always enjoy your inputs.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Ha! Yes, RB lied left right and centre. But unfortunately, you can't simply call a witness statement under oath, a lie. You need to have evidence to prove it's a lie.

So if RB said MB knew his home phone number and address, then the inquest has to roll with it.
Unless someone feels it's important to challenge it AND has evidence to prove otherwise.

However, if it's useful, anything he said under oath can be used against him.
Or it can be deemed of little value either way, and they do nothing with it, just let it slide.

Same with all the other lies he told.
They can only contest the things they have evidence for.

Either that or dismiss him as an unreliable witness, but that means they can't use anything he said.
IMO he was trying to make himself an unreliable witness by claiming to have dementia or brain issues.

 

[mishy66]

IMO he was trying to make himself an unreliable witness by claiming to have dementia or brain issues.

Of course he was. Everyone knew that.

 

[VisitorDog]

I was going to use the word tossing, but changed it to throwing as a UK friend once told me that tossing had a different meaning there when used with the word off

We also use the word ‘tosser’ which fits nicely here…

 

[VisitorDog]

I suspect whatever ultimately occurred was in Aug vs Oct.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Of course he was. Everyone knew that.

Ha! Yes, of course. I thought it was understood that anytime anyone here says IMO, JMO, MOO etc, we're not standing on a soapbox claiming to have invented a theory. It's to indicate that what we're saying is an opinion only and alleged, so that anyone reading understands it's not a fact, that we aren't defaming someone's character, or muddying the narrative to the point of a mistrial. It's something we all have to take care in doing as per the rules of this forum. No?

Hehehe anytime I see it here, I always hear it Ms Harlowe's voice, "It's just my opinion. Allegedly. Don't come for me."

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I suspect whatever ultimately occurred was in Aug vs Oct.

Yeah, that gap of activity between mid September and mid October is deafening! It's haunting.

 

[Kie22]

Yeah, that gap of activity between mid September and mid October is deafening! It's haunting.

Theories:
1: Stuff going on at home/annoying family commitments so couldn't get to the bank at BB
2: Getting ducks in a row (deciding time, place, opening deposit envelope etc.) in preparation for 'the big one'
3: Arguing with person being coerced into impersonating someone, or taking long time to persuade them it's okay and to just do it
4: Having to deal with problem of hiding something so it would never be found
5: Lying low to see if any of the other withdrawals have been questioned or flagged
6: Busy working on another scam so attention elsewhere

Not naming any names. Pure speculation. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

#4 is ominous.

Another one for the list might be that a police officer and his bank manager wife (who coincidently lives in Grafton) were on vacation, so he had to wait until they returned before making any more withdrawals?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Do you think there was more to aka's plan?

For example, perhaps after the $80k, he intended to make it look as though MB returned overseas? That way, it would solidify the story of her running off o/s wth a lover and no-one would look for her in Australia.

And he might've intended on withdrawing the $14k from the UK as well, because he'd never leave that much free money in a bank, unattended, lol.

I tend to think there was more to the plan but it was foiled when SL immediately started asking question and a stop was put on the account, and perhaps he worried her passport would be monitored as well.

I don't know... I just feel that (allegedly, IMO) he spent a lot of time setting up the story that she ran off overseas. Except that clearly she didn't. And that's a problem that may very well be his undoing.

 

[KinseyFan]

New Crime Analyst out

 

[Deleted member 83851]

During the inquest it seemed to me that RB’s memory was razor sharp whenever money was being discussed.