Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[Brown Alleycat]

In all the time I've been following this case, I feel for the first time ever convinced of one theory = that he threw poor Marion off the night ferry.

Has anyone ever seen the movie 'The Talented Mr Ripley', an excellent piece of work in my opinion. Well that's exactly what the confidence trickster / fraudster perpetrator does. Now that film was made from a book written by Patricia Highsmith in the 1950s. I wonder if it's one of the books that RB would have read and also in his own words 'affected my mind'.

Why was RB pleading for mercy and consideration at the Inquest because all these books he'd read have affected his mind? Sounds like a plea for some understanding, mercy, and mitigation IMO but one can only plead for that if guilty of something in the first place.

JMO MOO

This was my belief as well until I looked at timelines and realised he was back in Australia when MB made that last phone call to Sally! If there is proof that he returned to UK or Europe shortly after money taken out of MB's account then that theory is back on the agenda with me.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This was my belief as well until I looked at timelines and realised he was back in Australia when MB made that last phone call to Sally! If there is proof that he returned to UK or Europe shortly after money taken out of MB's account then that theory is back on the agenda with me.

Oh yes, you’re right, no theory ever quite fully works ~ unless third parties were involved

 

[Martinie]

but it has already been established that the trip to the optometrist August 13 , was only for an initial consultation. This is something you get when you first go to an optometrist, it wasn't for glasses or a complex problem it was stated.

If she didnt want anyone knowing she was back in Australia why use a card to pay? Why not use cash - she had plenty in the bank at this time

Trying to prove she was back in Aust if family came looking perhaps ......
and that "she didnt want any contact with them" as per the NSW policeman

I didn't think they had given much info about what the appointment was about because she hadn't been declared deceased. It's so tricky to find answers in this case!

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Re: passenger cards and MB’s passenger card. . .I remember filling them out on the plane and handing them in at passport check after landing. Correct? I also remember it wasn’t that big of a deal. I almost feel like you could hand in a random passenger card and say you found it on the floor, and they would have thrown it on the pile. They were just little scribbled cards. I also only remember filling one out when arriving in a foreign country, not in US where I lived.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Has Laura Richards given her theory of what happened?

 

[mishy66]

In all the time I've been following this case, I feel for the first time ever convinced of one theory = that he threw poor Marion off the night ferry.



JMO MOO

Yes I think so too but not prior to him returning - I think he met up with her in the UK sometime AFTER he fleeced her account - JMO

 

[mishy66]

I didn't think they had given much info about what the appointment was about because she hadn't been declared deceased. It's so tricky to find answers in this case!

Yes they talked about it on the crime podcast and on FB SL mentioned it.
It was for an Initial appointment only, not for glasses or eye problems.

 

[mishy66]

Re: passenger cards and MB’s passenger card. . .I remember filling them out on the plane and handing them in at passport check after landing. Correct? I also remember it wasn’t that big of a deal. I almost feel like you could hand in a random passenger card and say you found it on the floor, and they would have thrown it on the pile. They were just little scribbled cards. I also only remember filling one out when arriving in a foreign country, not in US where I lived.

Yes and remembering he mentioned numerous times that he collected them 'from the little stand at the airport where they had the pens' and he filled them out for his wife and victims also said the same.

 

[Deleted member 83851]

Laura Richards has come up with a phenomenal 41 points of interest in the case. She talks about life “anchors” and that Marion’s medical card being accessed close to one of AKA‘s life anchors is extremely significant, that something happened to her with someone and as a result she is dead. She thinks it is time for accountability and he must face the consequences of his actions.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Laura Richards has come up with a phenomenal 41 points of interest in the case. She talks about life “anchors” and that Marion’s medical card being accessed close to one of AKA‘s life anchors is extremely significant, that something happened to her with someone and as a result she is dead. She thinks it is time for accountability and he must face the consequences of his actions.

Hello, where can I find Laura Richards' ideas online if at all please? I'm not on FB. Does she have a youtube or a podcast or suchlike?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

but it has already been established that the trip to the optometrist August 13 , was only for an initial consultation. This is something you get when you first go to an optometrist, it wasn't for glasses or a complex problem it was stated.

If she didnt want anyone knowing she was back in Australia why use a card to pay? Why not use cash - she had plenty in the bank at this time

Trying to prove she was back in Aust if family came looking perhaps ......
and that "she didnt want any contact with them" as per the NSW policeman

Hello, where can I find Laura Richards' ideas online if at all please? I'm not on FB. Does she have a youtube or a podcast or suchlike?

The Disappearance of Marion Barter with Sally Leydon, Part 1

Podcast Episode · Crime Analyst · EP152 · 56m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

This was my belief as well until I looked at timelines and realised he was back in Australia when MB made that last phone call to Sally! If there is proof that he returned to UK or Europe shortly after money taken out of MB's account then that theory is back on the agenda with me.

That’s a very good point. Marion’s last call was after the Threadbo landslide. I understand the landslide occurred at 11.30pm on the 30 July 1997 and Aka arrived back in Australia on the 31 July 1997.

If Marion was to be believed that she had gone back to Tunbridge Wells to make that call on the 31 July (or 1 August) she wasn’t with Aka on that day.

Just why would she travel back to Australia without him if they were now ‘married’? Was she chasing after him? Had he spun a yarn meaning she had to leave after him? Did she never leave? Was there a female accomplice playing Marion?

 

[Kie22]

Just thinking through a possible scenario:

They went together to Amsterdam around the end of July. MB thinks they will continue on to Luxembourg or go on the Orient Express.

He is suddenly called back to Australia on an urgent pretext. He tells her to stay in Europe and he will be back in a week.

But she's been growing suspicious; a lot of things he says don't add up or materialise. The novelty of the secrecy/adventure is wearing off. She follows on the next available flight. During a stop-over in Asia she calls SL. She's in 'doublethink' mode. She doesn't give the game away as she still desperately wants to believe her suspicions are unfounded and doesn't want to alarm SL until she is sure.

She arrives back and checks into hotel in Brisbane. Calls him (home? cell?). A confrontation follows during which some truths are revealed and SHE says "This charade can't go on!" A phrase he remembers very well....

JMO MOO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Laura Richards has come up with a phenomenal 41 points of interest in the case. She talks about life “anchors” and that Marion’s medical card being accessed close to one of AKA‘s life anchors is extremely significant, that something happened to her with someone and as a result she is dead. She thinks it is time for accountability and he must face the consequences of his actions.

Thank you! Is that at the end of the podcast series, like a summing up? Just curious if I need to listen to all the episodes or just the last one.

In all the time I've been following his case, I feel for the first time ever convinced of one theory = that he threw poor Marion off the night ferry.
JMO MOO

MB had been all over southern UK. Spotted in shops, tearooms. Amsterdam would be the ideal place to end her life because she had so little connection to the place.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Just thinking through a possible scenario:

They went together to Amsterdam around the end of July. MB thinks they will continue on to Luxembourg or go on the Orient Express.

He is suddenly called back to Australia on an urgent pretext. He tells her to stay in Europe and he will be back in a week.

But she's been growing suspicious; a lot of things he says don't add up or materialise. The novelty of the secrecy/adventure is wearing off. She follows on the next available flight. During a stop-over in Asia she calls SL. She's in 'doublethink' mode. She doesn't give the game away as she still desperately wants to believe her suspicions are unfounded and doesn't want to alarm SL until she is sure.

She arrives back and checks into hotel in Brisbane. Calls him (home? cell?). A confrontation follows during which some truths are revealed and SHE says "This charade can't go on!" A phrase he remembers very well....

JMO MOO

This was my earlier belief: that she surprised him by flying home, maybe ready to comply with whatever requests he had been making. That would have been a major wrench in the works for AKA and would have necessitated swift, ugly action.

 

[mishy66]

The Disappearance of Marion Barter with Sally Leydon, Part 1

Podcast Episode · Crime Analyst · EP152 · 56m

podcasts.apple.com

page 1 on this thread has a notice about posting up links to this podcast - many posts were deleted referencing this podcast - the notice on page 1 states atm the podcast isnt approved and THE LINK cant be posted on this case until it is approved by admin

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

page 1 on this thread has a notice about posting up links to this podcast - many posts were deleted referencing this podcast - the notice on page 1 states atm the podcast isnt approved and THE LINK cant be posted on this case until it is approved by admin

Thanks, @mishy66.

 

[mishy66]

I know I am in the minority with her NOT returning to Australia but one of the reasons is because in this very complicated and twisted case, there have been many discrepancies with dates and times and information until of course more facts are revealed in the case.

The timing of calls home and flights with layovers just do not add up to me - she would have had only hours to organise flights, payment of flights and packing for her "8 days", cancelling her accommodation and trying to organise travel to Amsterdam for the flight back to Aust .... - between him leaving - what time did he actually fly out ?? to arrive back into Aust on 31st July ........and her card travelling back would only be hours -- if she was suspicious and following him home.

I keep going back to Marion calling Sally about the Thredbo disaster on 1st August, the day before her passenger card arrives into Australia and the 2 postcards with postmarks 7th and 30th August - both from Tunbridge Wells

Marion telling Sally about having tea with little old ladies and not sounding at all concerned about anything.
She is about to head to Amsterdam - "“EAGERLY LOOKING FORWARD TO VAN GOGH SUNFLOWERS REVISIT HOLLAND”
( he has made up some BS to keep her in UK and a trip to Amsterdam and the Orient is carrot IMO) and is having the time of her life >


The strand, Winchelsea postcard sent from Tunbridge Wells 7 August 1997
(she is back in Tunbridge Wells where she started, now without him so is having to do things on her own - IMO)

To her sister: .......hope you and the family are well. I’m having a ball. England is so beautiful and so much to see, do, explore, learn, eat and op shops galore. I say to myself ...? Good bargains too. It's sad because I can’t possibly buy one more thing. Talk about shop till you drop. I’m totally in my element. Beautiful gardens, weather been fine, Wearing shorts. Delayed my Orient trip till late August, first available rebooking due to earlier rain and floods in Germany. I don’t want to leave The UK just yet. Heaps of private schools. Could’ve had a job at a local village school, relief but not ready yet. Lovely families in old oast houses I’ve stayed with and b&bs.
Meet a Dutch dentist and a lady called Maz. Love you heaps M

To me she has delayed her trip on the Orient because HE TOLD HER there were floods = it gave him room to move and head back to Australia the week before without her questioning him.

Last card posted from Tunbridge Wells dated 30 August 1997 to family - 4 weeks after passenger card arrives back
This was from Marion's fathers notes, sent to the Salvation Army family tracing service.
Inquest confirms that postcards were dated after passport returned.

IMO MB never came back into Australia. She had NO idea what he was doing and was on his way back to Australia.

I know many sleuths believe these PCards were sent by hotel etc a week or two later and that was why they had the postmarks after her passenger card came in BUT I believe it was Marion herself, keeping herself occupied with sight seeing and continuing her correspondence with her loved ones, NOT knowing what he was doing.

I also believe he came back to the UK and threatened her and/or her family as a way to keep her quiet and met her demise by him much much later.

 

[Annalize]

Yes and remembering he mentioned numerous times that he collected them 'from the little stand at the airport where they had the pens' and he filled them out for his wife and victims also said the same.

I just wonder exactly what he did with the cards? If he was traveling at a different time to his victims, he could not control which cards they used and what information was on the card they submitted. For instance, if someone had pre-filled my card, even if it was a family member, I would double check my details very carefully, before submitting it. Especially if there were spelling errors in my name. It would be very simple to get another card and rewrite it.
If he was already on a flight, how did he control the card submission? Was he definitely on the plane in MB case or did someone else fly in in his place? And he flew in later?

 

[mishy66]

I just wonder exactly what he did with the cards? If he was traveling at a different time to his victims, he could not control which cards they used and what information was on the card they submitted. For instance, if someone had pre-filled my card, even if it was a family member, I would double check my details very carefully, before submitting it. Especially if there were spelling errors in my name. It would be very simple to get another card and rewrite it.
If he was already on a flight, how did he control the card submission? Was he definitely on the plane in MB case or did someone else fly in in his place? And he flew in later?

Thats right if you were a normal person with morals - but he is a criminal and no morals
It was said at inquest he got victims and his wife to fill out cards or he filled them out and held onto them. it was also noted that in the case of MB passenger card - some details were changed and that perhaps it was customs who made those changes.....HOW to prove that would be difficult - it could have been him
AH KNEW a lot of criminals and associates, having someone use a prefilled card with a passport to match is an easy task for him, knowing he has manipulated dozens of passports in his lifetime. Someone gets a cheap / free flight into a new country and walks.

From the inquest he flew in on the 31st under one of his aliases - he did 10 OS trips on this alias EVEN though he has changed his name to deH in 1992 -
In October 1997 while using the deed poll name change of Westbury he had listed himself in his local phone directory as FdeH - The directory was for the following year - so he was ALWAYS one step ahead

Edit - I think Marion knew him as RLW which is why he changed his name late 1997 in the phone book for the following year