Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23

[HinterlandObserver]

While I agree to an extent, I think it’s possible that RB might have or have sold some of 1895 DD’s loot or property. It sure seems like RB was taught these scams. I think the lives mirroring is important, especially with The Orient Express being a sleeper train and also desire’s eldest child Jacqueline’s death at 14 and the alleged attempt on Evelyn. I do wonder if Jacqueline’s death is a reason why RB allegedly tampered with the champagne. We will likely never know, but it is an interesting train of thought to me.

He likely did since he's been hustling genuine and forged antiquities his whole life. He's consistent. He shafted all of the women we know if so far out of anything of value.
I'm interested in your theory re mirroring!
Whether he was taught directly or it was a personal ambition to replicate his hero, what do you think we could apply to the current case for MB?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Hi Everyone it’s been a while!

I def think there’s a connection between the 2 Desires. Whether a distant relative.. or a closer relative.

AKA loves to adopt portions of people’s lives as his own.. names, places, stories, etc

He prides himself on being well read, knowledgeable blah blah blah we all know his ego …we have seen it first hand in the inquest

So he has either studied the heck outta Don Juan life fantasised about being him wanted to be him the infamous romance swindler living in the bohemian Passy -

(There’s a lot of similarities even a nod to his hero with Passy in Tambourine)

Or he has actually met the man at some stage through MC Desire connection/ through various criminal channels or through himself seeking him out)

He does play out whatever fantasies are in his mind at that particular time in his life. And based on what we have found or know.. there’s always some bits that are real.. whether real to him or real to another person he has met or known or simply heard of there are pieces of actual facts in all of his personas, the life stories, the names, the places…there’s always a truth in there somewhere.

There’s so much that is similar with DCOD - IMO it’s not coincidence.

Also there too much BALI - that’s not a coincidence either.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Yes, the references in his letter to MC

Previously it was found, by CarovB I think?, that he used some of his "flowery poetic" words in his letter, taken from the books:

"Venom House" by Arthur W. Upfield

"Rich Man Poor Man" by Irwin Shaw

"The Young Lions", Irwin Shaw

I’d love to know where singing testicles came from I still laugh when I think of that moment when it was read out

But surely he wasn’t talking of castrati’???

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I’d love to know where singing testicles came from I still laugh when I think of that moment when it was read out

But surely he wasn’t talking of castrati’???

'You're a song in a man's testicles' - didn't someone once find it was from a book? Or have I mis-remembered?

 

[mishy66]

Yes, the references in his letter to MC

Previously it was found, by CarovB I think?, that he used some of his "flowery poetic" words in his letter, taken from the books:

"Venom House" by Arthur W. Upfield

"Rich Man Poor Man" by Irwin Shaw

"The Young Lions", Irwin Shaw

@Eyespywithmylittleeye

He got it all from these 3 books
There's a direct passage in here about the singing testicle

Plagiarising is his jam, as we know.


BTW , good to see you on the thread!

Those long days with DCOD over the years nearly did us in didnt it

Yep both stories are on parallel paths as we know too well right.

Definitely a connection between the two of them.

I also found a close relative of DCOD living in Sussex
So many connections.

Marriages are funny things and people with aliases eventually find their way forward, Ric Blum knows this, don't you Ric. Always watching. Always reading. A lifelong reader, especially of WAR history and the connections to his family members and past war participants. Yep.

I remember saying way back on here, it could all have its own thread, there's so much information between the 2 of them.
But I'm not sure filling up MB thread with the history of DCOD is something sleuths want.

In any case, both of these criminals do my head in at times.

Poor SL having to actually live through it all over and over. She is another victim of AH and his associate.

Bringing Bali and the connections to Evangelist type cults, Spiritual church groups , etc is bringing Marions case into the here and now. Finding answers here in the more recent times, is what the case of Marions is really needed here.

This is about Marion. This is who we should be singing for.

Not RB's parallel life with his "minder" DCOD.
He gets off on all this publicity, a narcissist thrives on the world stage.

Meanwhile his victims have to try and find ways to get through each day. Every woman and their family, directly connected to his foul, disgusting, ruthless behaviour, continue to be reminded of what a low life he is. They should be the ones that are remembered, not him.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye

He got it all from these 3 books
There's a direct passage in here about the singing testicle

Plagiarising is his jam, as we know.


BTW , good to see you on the thread!

Those long days with DCOD over the years nearly did us in didnt it

Yep both stories are on parallel paths as we know too well right.

Definitely a connection between the two of them.

I also found a close relative of DCOD living in Sussex
So many connections.

Marriages are funny things and people with aliases eventually find their way forward, Ric Blum knows this, don't you Ric. Always watching. Always reading. A lifelong reader, especially of WAR history and the connections to his family members and past war participants. Yep.

I remember saying way back on here, it could all have its own thread, there's so much information between the 2 of them.
But I'm not sure filling up MB thread with the history of DCOD is something sleuths want.

In any case, both of these criminals do my head in at times.

Poor SL having to actually live through it all over and over. She is another victim of AH and his associate.

Bringing Bali and the connections to Evangelist type cults, Spiritual church groups , etc is bringing Marions case into the here and now. Finding answers here in the more recent times, is what the case of Marions is really needed here.

This is about Marion. This is who we should be singing for.

Not RB's parallel life with his "minder" DCOD.
He gets off on all this publicity, a narcissist thrives on the world stage.

Meanwhile his victims have to try and find ways to get through each day. Every woman and their family, directly connected to his foul, disgusting, ruthless behaviour, continue to be reminded of what a low life he is. They should be the ones that are remembered, not him.

Agree DCOD has nothing to do with the here and now plus as you mentioned hours and hours years ago down that rabbit hole !

The spiritual/whacky church stuff is definitely the here and now. And IMO wifey is a player in that

 

[mishy66]

I did wonder if the third defendant in the sleeping car trials was Mathilde, it makes total sense to be her as she’s obviously infatuated with him.

Mrs Sulzberger left us a bit of a clue in the press on something that was pinched from her hotel apartment.......... And if Ric’s hero is 1895 DD then he may well be in possession of some of these items.

1905 DD, I don’t think he is connected to the timeline at all. I think some family tree builder has placed him on there either by way of mistake or to add to the confusion in case a police officer or journalist ever came knocking, and some researchers have taken that as truth. I could be wrong though obviously, that’s just what I think.

I still think Alice died in 1934 as the court would have tried to call her when they re-started the case and she would have been subpoenaed at the time. Her mother died in 1932 and I can’t help but wonder how. I know her father opposed the relationship, so I presume her mother did too. I mean I know that people die and all that, but it just so happened to be in 1932 the year before Alice married DD, so Alice presumably comes into an inheritance and DD just happens to lose Alice….. and if RB was Alice’s baby he then gets passed onto Maria Coppenolle?

Just a few things in relation to your theories above.

I personally don't think ANY of the items stolen by DCOD would have been left for prosperity. He stole everything to make money for his gambling and life style.

Just like someone else we know

1905 DD, husband of MC is a real person and 100% connected to this case.
And MC aunt also married a David, just to add to the mix.

Journalists getting information incorrect, and people read these stories, I agree 100%. Still happening today in all missing persons cases.

Jeanne Alice didnt die during the trial. Her mother did though. The mother died age 60, in 1932.
Her father in 1943.

Jeanne Alice mother was already dead by the time she married DCOD.
Jeanne was summoned to appear at the trial, as a moral witness and it succeeded in his short prison term.

" the David that stands before you is not the David of old. I have transformed him into a man of true worth. His past transgressions must be forgotten and also forgiven. For you. And for me. " .
......I can hear this ringing out in the future by someone else we know

She paid out his massive debt of over 200 000 francs and they stayed together for years until she divorced him in 1963.

He was the father figure to her child, which wasn't his biological child.

She died in France in 1982

Is there a connection to RB and DCOD?
Yes there is.

Hope that helps!

 

[PamelaPamPam]

Just a few things in relation to your theories above.

I personally don't think ANY of the items stolen by DCOD would have been left for prosperity. He stole everything to make money for his gambling and life style.

Just like someone else we know

1905 DD, husband of MC is a real person and 100% connected to this case.
And MC aunt also married a David, just to add to the mix.

Journalists getting information incorrect, and people read these stories, I agree 100%. Still happening today in all missing persons cases.

Jeanne Alice didnt die during the trial. Her mother did though. The mother died age 60, in 1932.
Her father in 1943.

Jeanne Alice mother was already dead by the time she married DCOD.
Jeanne was summoned to appear at the trial, as a moral witness and it succeeded in his short prison term.

" the David that stands before you is not the David of old. I have transformed him into a man of true worth. His past transgressions must be forgotten and also forgiven. For you. And for me. " .
......I can hear this ringing out in the future by someone else we know

She paid out his massive debt of over 200 000 francs and they stayed together for years until she divorced him in 1963.

He was the father figure to her child, which wasn't his biological child.

She died in France in 1982

Is there a connection to RB and DCOD?
Yes there is.

Hope that helps!

I was just thinking that maybe a few pieces of the Sulzberger stuff might have been too ‘hot’ to sell on, but then I guess to get caught selling the stuff he’d likely have had to sell it to an undercover officer and it seems the police didn’t put two and two together at the time, how they didn’t connect him to the hotel apartment burglary is crazy. I have a theory that Mrs Sulzberger knew Desirè was behind it, but maybe she didn’t want further embarrassment. After all he did steal her ring and he was caught with her husband’s passport.

Even the timeline of all of that is confusing, because the passport went missing in 1921, but the burglary didn’t happen until 1925 then the court case over the ring theft was later again.

Back to Ric…. his frequent travelling…. have any airport or airline staff or frequent fellow passengers ever come forward with any info? I would have thought that at least some airport or airline staff would have noticed him being a frequent traveller, maybe they’d have struck up a conversation or two with him about his travels, maybe they’d have seen him with different ladies, that sort of thing.

 

[PamelaPamPam]

I was just thinking that maybe a few pieces of the Sulzberger stuff might have been too ‘hot’ to sell on, but then I guess to get caught selling the stuff he’d likely have had to sell it to an undercover officer and it seems the police didn’t put two and two together at the time, how they didn’t connect him to the hotel apartment burglary is crazy. I have a theory that Mrs Sulzberger knew Desirè was behind it, but maybe she didn’t want further embarrassment. After all he did steal her ring and he was caught with her husband’s passport.

Even the timeline of all of that is confusing, because the passport went missing in 1921, but the burglary didn’t happen until 1925 then the court case over the ring theft was later again.

Back to Ric…. his frequent travelling…. have any airport or airline staff or frequent fellow passengers ever come forward with any info? I would have thought that at least some airport or airline staff would have noticed him being a frequent traveller, maybe they’d have struck up a conversation or two with him about his travels, maybe they’d have seen him with different ladies, that sort of thing.

Sorry I keep forgetting he didn’t travel with the women. I keep forgetting that.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He had his friend at a Japanese airline didn't he? Something he was questioned over that after a certain year never flew that route or that airport again... sorry I can't clearly recall the details but there are others who will know. He's obviously connected in Bali.

I was in Bali in the aftermath of bombings that killed and injured hundreds of people. Tourists were either too afraid and / or were boycotting the country.

So it was extraordinarily quiet aside from the indigenous population and permanent residents - not even any surfers or divers.

Something that stood out, horribly, were the disgusting old male tourists who did not hesitate to still travel there for the young girls / women and the sex trade or exploitation or however you'd call it.
I'd imagine a man who abuses women to the extent that RB does would be more than happy to exploit *that* sickly market, maybe as some kind of fixer or just straight up financially defrauding potential sex tourists or abusers.

JMO MOO

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Sorry I keep forgetting he didn’t travel with the women. I keep forgetting that.

You could almost start a new thread for him and collate all this info there for others who might want to track their similarities and contribute to the research.

 

[mishy66]

Just reminding myself of some of the love, loyalty, lies and deceit they have used in this missing persons case of Marion Barter.

Blum - Freddy died first, then Andre, and the mother ended up on her own and died in hospital

Blum - "the person which I bare the name" when speaking about MC

Loved his mother so much you can tell by the way he speaks about her. Loved her and her family enough to steal the family's gold coin collection and sell them years later.


Diane -
AC- You met your husband on the ship (1971) but he was known as WW, but you called him Rick, Why.

Diane - He introduced himself as WW but I called him Rick, I liked it better than Willy.

((He was using Fredy David on his passenger card))

When we married in 1976 I called him Rick - I always called him Rick

AC – even when you knew him name as WW

Yes I always called him Rick

Diane says she only knew he used the names WW, FdeH, Ric West, Richard Lloyd West and Ric Blum

1980 – Diane standing beside “Fredy David” in the writeup about the furniture business.

2011 - Their GC neighbour said they KNEW he was using the name WC because he asked them to sign papers for it and saw mail that was addressed to WW. They knew ....but Diane states under oath she didn't know he used the names WC or FD

Diane surely you didn't lie under oath???

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I just remembered that Blum said the song in a man's testicles was an Australian saying,

Googled and found this

The bizarre love letter that may be key to cracking the Lady Vanishes mystery

‘You’re a song in a man’s testicles ... I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.’

7news.com.au

Love letter​

Blum had written: “Hello my beloved one. To my heart that you received my letter.

“If only I am Frederick not Fernand … If my sentiments are found to echo in your heart, if you decide to marry me, one day my father will say to you and then you go on.

“I love you Monique and you are an authentic magician who possesses the gift to beautify every moment that I have not with you.

“You are not only my woman, not only mine, but the whole adventure. You carry with you a perpetual renewal that allows the biggest lovers to never come monsters.

“With you, I know the beauty of a big love and nothing of these little grudges. You say yes, I am crazy, that I scream ‘oh I have made it your beautiful bastards I’ve made it’.

“Monique I am crazy because ‘cos you’re the heaven I’ll turn to out of every storm. Monique I am crazy and I have tell you one more way and I know that you accept the compliment.

‘Song in a man’s testicles’​

“It is Australian and so explicit of our wild nature, never mind Monique, you’re a song in a man’s testicles. I want to say my maternal language, that’s to say, my enchantress, I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.

“I feel completely drunk with it. You have somehow put a spell on me and I find it magic just touching your arm. You make the whole thing so lyrical, so beautiful.

“Monday, I leave the UK and Ireland a few days to buy our boat. I will look at a 40 foot (12 metres) sloop, which will suit us perfectly for what we want to do.

“Me, I simply want to get to know this country which is as sweet as your smile, pretty as your eyes and warm like the love that I have for you.

“I’m intimately persuaded that you will not regret your decision to leave with me and to start a new life.”

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Just reminding myself of some of the love, loyalty, lies and deceit they have used in this missing persons case of Marion Barter.

Blum - Freddy died first, then Andre, and the mother ended up on her own and died in hospital

Blum - "the person which I bare the name" when speaking about MC

Loved his mother so much you can tell by the way he speaks about her. Loved her and her family enough to steal the family's gold coin collection and sell them years later.


Diane -
AC- You met your husband on the ship (1971) but he was known as WW, but you called him Rick, Why.

Diane - He introduced himself as WW but I called him Rick, I liked it better than Willy.

((He was using Fredy David on his passenger card))

When we married in 1976 I called him Rick - I always called him Rick

AC – even when you knew him name as WW

Yes I always called him Rick

Diane says she only knew he used the names WW, FdeH, Ric West, Richard Lloyd West and Ric Blum

1980 – Diane standing beside “Fredy David” in the writeup about the furniture business.

2011 - Their GC neighbour said they KNEW he was using the name WC because he asked them to sign papers for it and saw mail that was addressed to WW. They knew ....but Diane states under oath she didn't know he used the names WC or FD

Diane surely you didn't lie under oath???

When Aka finally pops his clogs the attention will hopefully turn to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil Diane and the role she played in Aka’s criminal activities.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I just remembered that Blum said the song in a man's testicles was an Australian saying,

Googled and found this

The bizarre love letter that may be key to cracking the Lady Vanishes mystery

‘You’re a song in a man’s testicles ... I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.’

7news.com.au

Love letter​

Blum had written: “Hello my beloved one. To my heart that you received my letter.

“If only I am Frederick not Fernand … If my sentiments are found to echo in your heart, if you decide to marry me, one day my father will say to you and then you go on.

“I love you Monique and you are an authentic magician who possesses the gift to beautify every moment that I have not with you.

“You are not only my woman, not only mine, but the whole adventure. You carry with you a perpetual renewal that allows the biggest lovers to never come monsters.

“With you, I know the beauty of a big love and nothing of these little grudges. You say yes, I am crazy, that I scream ‘oh I have made it your beautiful bastards I’ve made it’.

“Monique I am crazy because ‘cos you’re the heaven I’ll turn to out of every storm. Monique I am crazy and I have tell you one more way and I know that you accept the compliment.

‘Song in a man’s testicles’​

“It is Australian and so explicit of our wild nature, never mind Monique, you’re a song in a man’s testicles. I want to say my maternal language, that’s to say, my enchantress, I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.

“I feel completely drunk with it. You have somehow put a spell on me and I find it magic just touching your arm. You make the whole thing so lyrical, so beautiful.

“Monday, I leave the UK and Ireland a few days to buy our boat. I will look at a 40 foot (12 metres) sloop, which will suit us perfectly for what we want to do.

“Me, I simply want to get to know this country which is as sweet as your smile, pretty as your eyes and warm like the love that I have for you.

“I’m intimately persuaded that you will not regret your decision to leave with me and to start a new life.”

To think he said they didn’t have a sexual relationship. Has she ever admitted she was prepared to run (or sail) away with him?

 

[mishy66]

I just remembered that Blum said the song in a man's testicles was an Australian saying,

Googled and found this

The bizarre love letter that may be key to cracking the Lady Vanishes mystery

‘You’re a song in a man’s testicles ... I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.’

7news.com.au

Love letter​

Blum had written: “Hello my beloved one. To my heart that you received my letter.

“If only I am Frederick not Fernand … If my sentiments are found to echo in your heart, if you decide to marry me, one day my father will say to you and then you go on.

“I love you Monique and you are an authentic magician who possesses the gift to beautify every moment that I have not with you.

“You are not only my woman, not only mine, but the whole adventure. You carry with you a perpetual renewal that allows the biggest lovers to never come monsters.

“With you, I know the beauty of a big love and nothing of these little grudges. You say yes, I am crazy, that I scream ‘oh I have made it your beautiful bastards I’ve made it’.

“Monique I am crazy because ‘cos you’re the heaven I’ll turn to out of every storm. Monique I am crazy and I have tell you one more way and I know that you accept the compliment.

‘Song in a man’s testicles’​

“It is Australian and so explicit of our wild nature, never mind Monique, you’re a song in a man’s testicles. I want to say my maternal language, that’s to say, my enchantress, I have never in my life made love like that with anyone before.

“I feel completely drunk with it. You have somehow put a spell on me and I find it magic just touching your arm. You make the whole thing so lyrical, so beautiful.

“Monday, I leave the UK and Ireland a few days to buy our boat. I will look at a 40 foot (12 metres) sloop, which will suit us perfectly for what we want to do.

“Me, I simply want to get to know this country which is as sweet as your smile, pretty as your eyes and warm like the love that I have for you.

“I’m intimately persuaded that you will not regret your decision to leave with me and to start a new life.”

Well we all know what a liar he is

He got the quote directly from the Irwin Shaw book The Young Lions
CarovB found it back in the day.

He also plagiarised this part in his letter to her. I think CarovB found it too.

"Frederick was perturbed when admitting to himself how little he knew of feminine psychology. An intelligent woman like his wife would have talked nineteen to the dozen, noted voice inflection, eyes and mouth expression..."

Book is Venom House by Arthur Upfield


Just like he plagiarised the Scientology teachings for his alias ZZ


Just like how he set a blueprint for his scheming lying adventures by following the story of DCOD some 30 odd yrs later when he found his Aust wife on a ship.

He is a criminal. He rips everyone off.

 

[mishy66]

To think he said they didn’t have a sexual relationship. Has she ever admitted she was prepared to run (or sail) away with him?

She is another liar IMO
Saved her own skin and will take all the secrets with her to the grave.
It was a checkmate with them both. She got in before him and played him at the inquest with that letter and it really irked him, you could see how flustered he was. It was the best day of the whole inquest when AC read that letter nice and slow

 

[mishy66]

When Aka finally pops his clogs the attention will hopefully turn to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil Diane and the role she played in Aka’s criminal activities.

@Lord Peter Flimsy cant you just hear her repeating the words of one of DCOD wives

" the David that stands before you is not the David of old. I have transformed him into a man of true worth. His past transgressions must be forgotten and also forgiven. For you. And for me. "

I really hope they go after them all.

 

[mishy66]

Just looking at Irwin Shaw again

The Young Lions (1948), about the fate of three soldiers during World War II, which was made into a film of the same name starring Marlon Brando and Montgomery Clift, and Rich Man, Poor Man (1970), about the fate of two brothers and a sister in the post-World War II decades

He spent his life revolving around World Wars and placing them in his life of lies when ever he had the chance.

He probably spends his life now watching old war movies

Irwin Shaw was born in the Bronx and lived in Brooklyn NY - just like Dianes brother's step father, same vintage.

All these "coincidences " around AH, are never ending!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

She is another liar IMO
Saved her own skin and will take all the secrets with her to the grave.
It was a checkmate with them both. She got in before him and played him at the inquest with that letter and it really irked him, you could see how flustered he was. It was the best day of the whole inquest when AC read that letter nice and slow

100% agree with this.
Her protestations didn't ring true.
Also for one moment he seemed genuinely shocked and betrayed, he said something like 'I thought she was my friend, my closest friend in the whole world' - I have paraphrased but it was something like that.