Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I have no problem with the TLV book or podcast. Whatever raises awareness of the case, imho, is a help. Not everyone hangs on each detail. Not everyone is a sleuth. The more people who know of the case, the better chance of finding important clues. No one at TLV is maliciously misguiding people or making mistakes on purpose. The details of this case ARE impossible to keep straight without three spreadsheets. There is even disagreement on this site about whether Marion came back to Australia or not.

I've appreciated Sally's podcast for its simple recounting of the saga. (Like knowing exactly for once how short a time Marion was abroad!) I pray, for her sake, that this mystery is resolved and justice is served in her lifetime but it seems hopeless at times. Even the new podcast feels tired and deflated, because it is careful not to slander you-know-who and because I think Sally is just plain tired.

For all the criticism, it is a godsend for a cold case to have a news team or a Hedley Thomas to raise awareness and force the police to do their job. But because social media thrives on disagreement, we all find fault at times with the investigators running the podcasts. It must be incredibly hard to be a family member who wants coverage but also realizes their loved ones' cases depend on podcast entertainment and media fodder.

JMHO.

 

[mishy66]

I have no problem with the TLV book or podcast. Whatever raises awareness of the case, imho, is a help. Not everyone hangs on each detail. Not everyone is a sleuth. The more people who know of the case, the better chance of finding important clues. No one at TLV is maliciously misguiding people or making mistakes on purpose. The details of this case ARE impossible to keep straight without three spreadsheets. There is even disagreement on this site about whether Marion came back to Australia or not.

I've appreciated Sally's podcast for its simple recounting of the saga. (Like knowing exactly for once how short a time Marion was abroad!) I pray, for her sake, that this mystery is resolved and justice is served in her lifetime but it seems hopeless at times. Even the new podcast feels tired and deflated, because it is careful not to slander you-know-who and because I think Sally is just plain tired.

For all the criticism, it is a godsend for a cold case to have a news team or a Hedley Thomas to raise awareness and force the police to do their job. But because social media thrives on disagreement, we all find fault at times with the investigators running the podcasts. It must be incredibly hard to be a family member who wants coverage but also realizes their loved ones' cases depend on podcast entertainment and media fodder.

JMHO.

I agree with you that it's all awareness, very true.

But producing and publishing articles that aren't entirely fact based, purely for money and a timeline leads to many people who have read and listened to TLV publications, believing that account and in turn those 5000 people share the story with another 5000 people and before you know it. Chinese whispers and the perpetrator has a business selling body parts, as happened with this case.

Evidence and Awareness can ONLY come FROM FACT.

Decades have past for Marion and a man has spent a lifetime building foundations of lies and corruption, to hide his real undertakings.

This is only 1 of many platforms discussing the case and every single one of them has theories and fact all blended into one long story.

We probably know 1 / 10 of the real story and the foundation of the real story needs to be placed down as facts first.

This man has built a lifetime of lies and has caused untold amount of damage not just to Marion family but to many others.

TLV book did not help the public by publishing untruths in it. It wasn't marketed as fiction, nor was it marketed as the end result of a coroners inquest.
It was marketed as a factual based book on the life of MB and AH..

Specifically AS was asked why did the book have so many untruths in it.

"We went with what was said at the inquest".

 

[BreakingNews]

The latest podcast The Missing Matter is excellent and so far I haven’t had to pay (I haven’t listened to all of it yet). It’s made by Marion’s daughter and the woman who has helped her sleuth the situation.

The original podcast (TLV) unfolds with the mystery as it goes, it’s very long, some parts are better than others, has dubious ethics at times, but comprehensive coverage of the inquest if you want that. The same team who made the podcast produced the book. as I understand it there are factual errors in the book - not deliberate untruths, but many small errors which in a case like this where small deviations in names and dates can make a huge difference; and where there’s a problem with hearsay over time, that’s far from ideal.

There are also loads of errors in the coroner’s findings. Well I think so? I was listening to the bonus episode of The Missing Matter while re-reading the findings and there were a LOT of important dates that did not match up (in a way that totally changed the story). Weird. I was inclined to believe Sally was correct because she seemed so sure and could provide receipts

I can not believe that a coroner can get things so wrong. They are usually spot on and they can gather information from anywhere. And their assistances fact check everything. Facts are the only thing coroner's are interested in. However I don't doubt Sally either. The disappearance of Marion is baffling.

 

[CuriousKat99]

Having listened to Episode 2 of the Missing Matter podcast which was released in the early hours of yesterday morning, the issue with the super is clarified somewhat:

Marion did withdraw her super account balance but it happened towards the end of 1993, at around the same time she moved from the NSW South Coast to the Gold Coast in QLD. This was also just before Marion purchased the house in Ashmore on the GC in January of 1994. It is likely that Marion used the super money to pay for the Ashmore house.

Sally mentions that Marion owned 2 houses at the same time, one on the NSW South Coast plus the one in Ashmore. The house on the South Coast appears to have been sold in around 1994 and it seems that Marion was the owner in full off the Ashmore house (no mortgage) plus had the proceeds of the South Cost property as well as her teaching income to live off. I e she was very comfortable financially.

Marion would have been around 48 years old at the time the super withdrawal was made in 1993. How she was able to access her super funds so far away from retirement age and without leaving the country permanently isn’t mentioned, but my guess would be that she was allowed to do it because she was moving from the public school system into the private school system (TSS) which would have had a completely different super fund.

Once Marion commenced her teaching job at TSS in 1994, she would have had additional contributions made into her super for the 3.5 years that she worked there before she left to go to Europe. My understanding is that at the time she went missing there was a small amount of super in this fund (a much smaller amount than that which she withdrew in 1993). That amount has never been touched.

It’s unlikely that the serial scammer had anything to do with Marion cashing out her super in 1993 as this was around 3 years before there is any evidence of him having contact with Marion.

However, at the time Marion came into contact with the scammer, she was well and truly loaded with cash, and even more so after she sold the Ashmore house in May of 1997. An ideal target for financial abuse.

 

[Candytuft]

Just my twopennorth...It was Detective Gary Sheehan who told Sally the Super money hadn't been touched.

 

[mishy66]

Having listened to Episode 2 of the Missing Matter podcast which was released in the early hours of yesterday morning, the issue with the super is clarified somewhat:

Marion did withdraw her super account balance but it happened towards the end of 1993, at around the same time she moved from the NSW South Coast to the Gold Coast in QLD. This was also just before Marion purchased the house in Ashmore on the GC in January of 1994. It is likely that Marion used the super money to pay for the Ashmore house.

Sally mentions that Marion owned 2 houses at the same time, one on the NSW South Coast plus the one in Ashmore. The house on the South Coast appears to have been sold in around 1994 and it seems that Marion was the owner in full off the Ashmore house (no mortgage) plus had the proceeds of the South Cost property as well as her teaching income to live off. I e she was very comfortable financially.

Marion would have been around 48 years old at the time the super withdrawal was made in 1993. How she was able to access her super funds so far away from retirement age and without leaving the country permanently isn’t mentioned, but my guess would be that she was allowed to do it because she was moving from the public school system into the private school system (TSS) which would have had a completely different super fund.

Once Marion commenced her teaching job at TSS in 1994, she would have had additional contributions made into her super for the 3.5 years that she worked there before she left to go to Europe. My understanding is that at the time she went missing there was a small amount of super in this fund (a much smaller amount than that which she withdrew in 1993). That amount has never been touched.

It’s unlikely that the serial scammer had anything to do with Marion cashing out her super in 1993 as this was around 3 years before there is any evidence of him having contact with Marion.

However, at the time Marion came into contact with the scammer, she was well and truly loaded with cash, and even more so after she sold the Ashmore house in May of 1997. An ideal target for financial abuse.

Yes that is how I interpreted it also.

She removed it prior to setting up a new super fund for her new position in a private school.

A sleuth on here a long time ago, asked about this very thing back then and no one could provide clarity.

Now at least we have it.

Marion had a lot of money and the scammer caught her in his net.

I can't see this case ever being resolved before he carks it.
Can they go after the rest of them if that happens?

 

[CuriousKat99]

Just my twopennorth...It was Detective Gary Sheehan who told Sally the Super money hadn't been touched.

Yes, and while that was correct, it was only part of the full story.

Why the final untouched super balance was so low after many years of full time work was never explained.

Also while it was known that Marion was in possession of the cash from the proceeds of the sale of the Ashmore house when she disappeared, it turns out she likely had a lot more cash.

Nobody has ever explained where all that cash ended up. Nobody has ever explained where the rest of Marion’s assets (antiques, jewellery etc) ended up. And most importantly, nobody has revealed where Marion herself ended up.

The disappearance of Marion’s assets is, without a doubt, linked to her disappearance and homicide.

 

[hoodunnit]

Why the final untouched super balance was so low after many years of full time work was never explained.

The way I understood it from the latest podcast was that the untouched Super was a new Super account opened after clearing out the original one and moving to TSS - or have I misinterpreted this? It would have only had around 3 years of contributions paid in, hence the small $amount.

 

[CuriousKat99]

The way I understood it from the latest podcast was that the untouched Super was a new Super account opened after clearing out the original one and moving to TSS - or have I misinterpreted this? It would have only had around 3 years of contributions paid in, hence the small $amount.

That’s my understanding too. Since 1 July 1992, all employers in Australia have been required to deposit a percentage of salary into each employee’s super account. The rate was only 3% to begin with, increasing gradually each year. (Currently the rate is at 11.5%, increasing to 12% on 1July) Therefore, that’s correct, Marion’s super account balance at the time she disappeared would only have had around 3 years of contributions at a low rate.

 

[CuriousKat99]

I can't see this case ever being resolved before he carks it.
Can they go after the rest of them if that happens?

Anyone who has benefitted from the proceeds of his scams should be fully investigated and have to return whatever they have received with interest on top.

Money laundering has been facilitated by the prolonged lack of action by the authorities.

 

[mishy66]

Anyone who has benefitted from the proceeds of his scams should be fully investigated and have to return whatever they have received with interest on top.

Money laundering has been facilitated by the prolonged lack of action by the authorities.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE

APPALLING LACK OF INVESTIGATIONS DONE BY ALL ARMS OF THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT BODIES IN ALL DEPARTMENTS ON THIS CASE. THEY SHOULD HANG THEIR HEAD IN SHAME.

A COMPLETE AND UTTER SHAMBLES FROM THE START.

Decades of welfare abuse by 2 people, bleeding off the Australian system, total police corruption on all levels , the lacking of any investigation at all into his background since 1969 aside from a few ink pad stamps of "warning" on paperwork.

THE WORST CASE OF A MISSING PERSON IN AUSTRALIA IS NOW HIGHLIGHTED BY THE DAUGHTER OF THE VICTIM AND STILL A CRIMINAL WALKS FREE.

HOW THE HELL THAT FAMILY SLEEP AT NIGHT IS BEYOND ME.

 

[mishy66]

He might have travelled back and forth overseas but all his misadventures where in his playground of Northern NSW and QLD, back and forth and forth and back

SO many people relating to Life Saving, Evangelists Churches, Swimming, Coin and Stamp Establishments, Antique shops, Teaching Sector , Artists, Medical Personal, and all the Relatives of his immediate family, that of IK family and no doubt MB family. So many connections. Made it so easy for him.

Im still going with he deals in Real Estate.

The outward appearances defies the real background of these two.

Time is ticking

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I can not believe that a coroner can get things so wrong. They are usually spot on and they can gather information from anywhere. And their assistances fact check everything. Facts are the only thing coroner's are interested in. However I don't doubt Sally either. The disappearance of Marion is baffling.

I don’t IMO believe the coroner got stuff wrong. The problem was a certain someone who is the key IMO to what happened to MB was not able to be wholly and properly investigated eg: financial status working with Belgian police as this person wasn’t on trial. Theresa O’Sullivan has basically said this person needs to be investigated… that’s police job and they need assistance with Belgian police and that was not going to happen for this particular inquest. JMO it was obvious to me TO could see straight through the stories being sprouted by Aka.

 

[mishy66]

I don’t IMO believe the coroner got stuff wrong. The problem was a certain someone who is the key IMO to what happened to MB was not able to be wholly and properly investigated eg: financial status working with Belgian police as this person wasn’t on trial. Theresa O’Sullivan has basically said this person needs to be investigated… that’s police job and they need assistance with Belgian police and that was not going to happen for this particular inquest. JMO it was obvious to me TO could see straight through the stories being sprouted by Aka.

yep agree.
The Police and Customs really dropped the ball on this case. This has been going on for decades. How one person can possibly wrap their head around the massively broad dirty deeds of one disgusting human, can not be laid at the feet of Theresa O'Sullivan.
Even after all of the investigating mainly by MB own daughter, the public helping with leads and the brave victims coming forward, he hasn't even been named as a suspect in the disappearance of MB. ONLY one brave woman took out an AVO against him. Thats it.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen, along with jewellery, coin collections, stamp collections, antiques and god knows what else, and AH is still as free as a bird, watching war movies on television no doubt and sorting out his Renov Pubs and properties name change over IMO

 

[CuriousKat99]

Im still going with he deals in Real Estate.

The outward appearances defies the real background of these two.

If it is real estate where the money has ended up, that is one of the few areas where there may be some traceable records. If anyone in authority would bother to investigate, of course.

 

[mishy66]

If it is real estate where the money has ended up, that is one of the few areas where there may be some traceable records. If anyone in authority would bother to investigate, of course.

Can't imagine that there wouldn't be.

Her father was in it. Her father's corrupt development mate would have taught him a thing or two. AH is a quick learner as we know. Gleans information from all quarters.


He packed up the whole family after every scam and moved in the blink of an eye, every time, back and forth and forth and back. How does one to do that so efficiently with a family of 4.

I know, not owning many possessions maybe
Mates to assist maybe

Their neighbour said they lived in squalor in their tiny little unit and you wouldn't have known they all had new properties in other areas.

Tiny little unit duplex. Did they actually OWN that block? Some really interesting things with those 2 units and the people that lived in them. I purpose all of them well known to AH. Yep.

2 Adults on pensions, buying up properties at the drop of a hat, sending kids to squad all over the country, flights all over the world , sometimes 4 or 6 times a year, kids played with the rich and famous all their lives and still do, Bali trips back and forth for all of them for years.
He has a business name still attached to him since 1969 and other business names more recently attached to him.

Properties in Dianes name.

Yeah, nothing to see here .
Just 2 pensioners struggling with the world.

 

[Laidback]

If nothing else they should be done for fraud and made to back pay all the money claimed.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Yep, the Al Capone tactic. You can't get them for the real crime, so you go after tax evasion or fraud or coming into Australia illegally. That may be the only answer. At least then you could plea bargain for Marion's whereabouts.

 

[Liselle]

Having listened to Episode 2 of SL's new podcast, I felt gutted hearing Sally tear-up whilst explaining all the bureaucratic nonsense she endured in obtaining MB's death certificate, notably in relation to her mother's various (legal) name changes. However, I had a quiet chuckle imagining what the family of RB will have to go through when he passes!! How will they provide or even know of ALL his name changes?? The result could be of encyclopedic proportion!

 

[Laidback]

Having listened to Episode 2 of SL's new podcast, I felt gutted hearing Sally tear-up whilst explaining all the bureaucratic nonsense she endured in obtaining MB's death certificate, notably in relation to her mother's various (legal) name changes. However, I had a quiet chuckle imagining what the family of RB will have to go through when he passes!! How will they provide or even know of ALL his name changes?? The result could be of encyclopedic proportion!

I thought along the same lines