Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23

[Laidback]

I can speak of at least two investigators who have spent a lot of time, and used their own resources general public are not able to access, to find information, ancestry, addresses, names, businesses, etc etc and have attempted to furnish SL with this information and were met with gatekeeping and nothing to assist further with several leads.
They're too scared to confirm facts that prove the story has been manipulated to garner sales and followers.
It probably wasn't intended, however as it was monetised, an image was created and required to be maintained.
MOO MOE IMOO JMOO

Too scared? What of?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Too scared?

That is what I wrote.
IMOO MOO JMOO

 

[hoodunnit]

Just listening to the Luxembourg episode of Missing Matter Podcast. I'm not even 5 minutes in and it's been nothing but waffle so far. We really don't need to hear about bus trips, wrong directions, lugging the suitcases up stairs .......... ffs

 

[Cloudley]

Just listening to the Luxembourg episode of Missing Matter Podcast. I'm not even 5 minutes in and it's been nothing but waffle so far. We really don't need to hear about bus trips, wrong directions, lugging the suitcases up stairs .......... ffs

I just feel like there was so many logistical errors as well - not checking people would be home prior to arriving, banks closed down, unable to access archives etc.
I had the thought that maybe they would’ve benefitted from having someone to organise it for them, like a researcher. I’m sure it was very disappointing and frustrating that they had travelled all that way and didn’t get the info they hoped for

 

[Liselle]

I am finding it difficult to comprehend the lack of pertinent dialogue in "The Missing " podcast and find myself thinking when is SL or JC going to ask specific questions? For example, surreptitiously being interested in purchasing from the "Coppenolle Coin Collection" instead of producing a photo and asking "Do you know this man?". Hopefully the podcast will explain and expand on information in the upcoming episodes!
And YES, the money raised could possibly have paid for a reliable private investigator in Europe with the assistance of @Carovb5 .
But this still focuses only on AH and his shortcomings and not really on MB. It has only recently been irrefutably proven that the MO of AH was to distance his victims from their families. Therefore I believe there was some truth in the phrase "obtained" by the Salvation Army and Byron Bay police when MB was originally missing that "she wanted nothing more to do with her family" could only have come from the voice of a female impersonating MB or a female in possession of MB's credentials. And IMO that part could certainly have been played by DdH who holds the golden key to unlocking this mystery.
After many years of listening and watching the podcasts, T.V. shows, etc, I am even more convinced that MB did not return to Australia.JMO

 

[Cloudley]

I am finding it difficult to comprehend the lack of pertinent dialogue in "The Missing " podcast and find myself thinking when is SL or JC going to ask specific questions? For example, surreptitiously being interested in purchasing from the "Coppenolle Coin Collection" instead of producing a photo and asking "Do you know this man?". Hopefully the podcast will explain and expand on information in the upcoming episodes!
And YES, the money raised could possibly have paid for a reliable private investigator in Europe with the assistance of @Carovb5 .
But this still focuses only on AH and his shortcomings and not really on MB. It has only recently been irrefutably proven that the MO of AH was to distance his victims from their families. Therefore I believe there was some truth in the phrase "obtained" by the Salvation Army and Byron Bay police when MB was originally missing that "she wanted nothing more to do with her family" could only have come from the voice of a female impersonating MB or a female in possession of MB's credentials. And IMO that part could certainly have been played by DdH who holds the golden key to unlocking this mystery.
After many years of listening and watching the podcasts, T.V. shows, etc, I am even more convinced that MB did not return to Australia.JMO

This is going to sound awful as well but would a male going with them have helped? Some of these clubs/coin collecting groups etc may be misogynistic and less open to dialogue with women?

 

[Laidback]

This is going to sound awful as well but would a male going with them have helped? Some of these clubs/coin collecting groups etc may be misogynistic and less open to dialogue with women?

Having someone from each country to help them would have been a good idea!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Saw this on the Missing Person MB page just now regarding the doorbell. Why can't they just be upfront

lol it’s the White House again.. little breadcrumbs

 

[Carovb5]

I am finding it difficult to comprehend the lack of pertinent dialogue in "The Missing " podcast and find myself thinking when is SL or JC going to ask specific questions? For example, surreptitiously being interested in purchasing from the "Coppenolle Coin Collection" instead of producing a photo and asking "Do you know this man?". Hopefully the podcast will explain and expand on information in the upcoming episodes!
And YES, the money raised could possibly have paid for a reliable private investigator in Europe with the assistance of @Carovb5 .
But this still focuses only on AH and his shortcomings and not really on MB. It has only recently been irrefutably proven that the MO of AH was to distance his victims from their families. Therefore I believe there was some truth in the phrase "obtained" by the Salvation Army and Byron Bay police when MB was originally missing that "she wanted nothing more to do with her family" could only have come from the voice of a female impersonating MB or a female in possession of MB's credentials. And IMO that part could certainly have been played by DdH who holds the golden key to unlocking this mystery.
After many years of listening and watching the podcasts, T.V. shows, etc, I am even more convinced that MB did not return to Australia.JMO

I think there are a lot of people willing to help but it seems like they want to do it on their own. Which i don’t get. The goal is finding out where MB is, what happened to her & finding as much info as possible on RB/FFH/whateverhisname. If that’s your goal, why not asking for/accepting help. No need for pride or ego’s.
Checking the availability of a bank or an archive in your own country is peanuts. Could’ve saved them the trip. And it seems like Googling in your own country gets you other info as well. Why not ask locals for info/help.
Private investigators have tools/talents they don’t have. Why not welcoming them with open arms.

The perpose/goal seems lost. Every “project” has moments they lose their goal/perpose out of sight for a while, losing themselves in details or problems. I’m afraid they’ve reached that moment & need to re-focus, make a new “game-plan” and start asking for help from professionals & locals. It will save them money, time & frustration!

 

[Carovb5]

This is going to sound awful as well but would a male going with them have helped? Some of these clubs/coin collecting groups etc may be misogynistic and less open to dialogue with women?

I personally don’t think a man would’ve helped better but i do think taking along someone who ontherstands that “world” a bit better would’ve helped asking the right questions/who to ask. (I think, for instance, some collectors like the same coins/era RB had, some have AUS connections, some might know of collections with a name connected to RB,…) And taking along pictures of RB from young till now, everywhere they go.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I think there are a lot of people willing to help but it seems like they want to do it on their own. Which i don’t get. The goal is finding out where MB is, what happened to her & finding as much info as possible on RB/FFH/whateverhisname. If that’s your goal, why not asking for/accepting help. No need for pride or ego’s.
Checking the availability of a bank or an archive in your own country is peanuts. Could’ve saved them the trip. And it seems like Googling in your own country gets you other info as well. Why not ask locals for info/help.
Private investigators have tools/talents they don’t have. Why not welcoming them with open arms.

The perpose/goal seems lost. Every “project” has moments they lose their goal/perpose out of sight for a while, losing themselves in details or problems. I’m afraid they’ve reached that moment & need to re-focus, make a new “game-plan” and start asking for help from professionals & locals. It will save them money, time & frustration!

And may actually get some answers

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I think there are a lot of people willing to help but it seems like they want to do it on their own. Which i don’t get. The goal is finding out where MB is, what happened to her & finding as much info as possible on RB/FFH/whateverhisname. If that’s your goal, why not asking for/accepting help. No need for pride or ego’s.
Checking the availability of a bank or an archive in your own country is peanuts. Could’ve saved them the trip. And it seems like Googling in your own country gets you other info as well. Why not ask locals for info/help.
Private investigators have tools/talents they don’t have. Why not welcoming them with open arms.

The perpose/goal seems lost. Every “project” has moments they lose their goal/perpose out of sight for a while, losing themselves in details or problems. I’m afraid they’ve reached that moment & need to re-focus, make a new “game-plan” and start asking for help from professionals & locals. It will save them money, time & frustration!

Perhaps PI’s are avoided because a particularly narrative has been set in stone and a proper investigator may provide information that the ‘powers that be’ don’t actually want in a public forum. It may also mean giving up control of the narrative.
Because one would assume an investigator would also delve into every area… aka, TSS and even…MB prior to aka

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I'm torturing myself by listening to it all again because I've noticed a few things that have contradicted previous said accounts

I have to ask also WHY does the public need to hear the airport boarding announcement and pilot when J makes her way to NSW

It was like listening to the shoe purchase on TLV! WHO CARES.

Then they talk about how much it is costing for flights, accommodation etc. Why?? Don't go if you can't afford it. Although there seems to be an ongoing public money box for donations. Why are the public donating for answers that aren't forthcoming? It really has become a spinner. I dont think I've ever known another missing persons case that continuously asks for donations but gives the public nothing.

It would have been a more captive audience podcast if the facts were laid out each episode without the fodder.


Even with the "professionalism" of long term journalists in TLV podcast, it was at times unbearable.
Not being used to doing a podcast , SL and J should just stick with one episode at a time, tying up each loose thread with fact. Forget the fodder, no one is interested, in fact most have already moved on after what is nearing a decade in itself.

Now we have J cliffhangers on the doorplate saying we know about this now, then S saying we don't know what it's about . Huh?

I think @Carovb5 is right. They thought they knew then when Carov posted about Leon, it was back to the drawing board

MC wouldn't be helping them thats a given.

But seriously, HOW much longer is this going to drag on.

Why use the same manipulative tactics AH uses?

I am starting to notice though that there have been some discrepancies within the story. Has anyone else?

I keep vague-ing out during it cos it’s painful and boring. But I’d love you to share the discrepancies if you can on here…

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Perhaps PI’s are avoided because a particularly narrative has been set in stone and a proper investigator may provide information that the ‘powers that be’ don’t actually want in a public forum. It may also mean giving up control of the narrative.
Because one would assume an investigator would also delve into every area… aka, TSS and even…MB prior to aka

Nail-head.

IMOO MOO

 

[mishy66]

I am finding it difficult to comprehend the lack of pertinent dialogue in "The Missing " podcast and find myself thinking when is SL or JC going to ask specific questions? For example, surreptitiously being interested in purchasing from the "Coppenolle Coin Collection" instead of producing a photo and asking "Do you know this man?". Hopefully the podcast will explain and expand on information in the upcoming episodes!
And YES, the money raised could possibly have paid for a reliable private investigator in Europe with the assistance of @Carovb5 .
But this still focuses only on AH and his shortcomings and not really on MB. It has only recently been irrefutably proven that the MO of AH was to distance his victims from their families. Therefore I believe there was some truth in the phrase "obtained" by the Salvation Army and Byron Bay police when MB was originally missing that "she wanted nothing more to do with her family" could only have come from the voice of a female impersonating MB or a female in possession of MB's credentials. And IMO that part could certainly have been played by DdH who holds the golden key to unlocking this mystery.
After many years of listening and watching the podcasts, T.V. shows, etc, I am even more convinced that MB did not return to Australia.JMO

Absolutely 100% agree with all you say here @Liselle

 

[mishy66]

lol it’s the White House again.. little breadcrumbs

Exactly!

Been like that for some time now.

Drops the crumb then doesn't share what it's about or conclusions

Meanwhile public spend ages trying to find any snippet of info to help them, only to be met with, nothing to see here or the usual line "we don't want public finding information and scaring off the leads "

Please.

Everyone who knows this case inside and out over the past near decade KNOWS NOT ONE PERSON finds the leads.

Some of the public who just listen to stories might think that is the case but so many people around the world have found information for them, regardless of whether or not they are acknowledged.

Most of us investigating have done it for Marion.

 

[mishy66]

Perhaps PI’s are avoided because a particularly narrative has been set in stone and a proper investigator may provide information that the ‘powers that be’ don’t actually want in a public forum. It may also mean giving up control of the narrative.
Because one would assume an investigator would also delve into every area… aka, TSS and even…MB prior to aka

Yes they did have one who they got rid of because he got too close to the truth re Marion and a connection to TSS and AH and was told to move on

Interesting eh?

I can speak of at least two investigators who have spent a lot of time, and used their own resources general public are not able to access, to find information, ancestry, addresses, names, businesses, etc etc and have attempted to furnish SL with this information and were met with gatekeeping and nothing to assist further with several leads.
They're too scared to confirm facts that prove the story has been manipulated to garner sales and followers.
It probably wasn't intended, however as it was monetised, an image was created and required to be maintained.
MOO MOE IMOO JMOO

@Eyespywithmylittleeye

As we said earlier.

Can't have the public finding out the truth

Better to shut it all down and steer the ship in another direction because there is a narrative to follow

 

[Carovb5]

Yep it sure has become a passing parade.
I think the basis of why people are invested in this case is now lost.
It was once a missing persons case, a middle age woman who packed up her life and was never seen again.
It's now morphed into a complete and utter jumble of "guess what and keep guessing what ".

As I said earlier, so many people have moved on.

Money, yrs of dangling carrots, untruths to fit narratives and now an overseas trip which sounds like a complete waste of time.

They already turned up at a house in Luxembourg with little regard to the owner and they are still doing it!

Here is someone who at every single chance they get announce , I found the advert ( yep the whole world knows you did and haven't forgotten) , announces on the Podcast "well meaning people sending information that is useless" , ( HOW WOULD THE PUBLIC KNOW what is useful or useless????!!! You ask for help then burn the hands that offer it!!)))
, refuses the assistance of professionals , then ask for money for OS trips and arrive on said trip very very ill prepared.

Waste. Of. Time.

Meanwhile where is Marion and AH is probably laughing at all of their closing doors in their faces

I give this podcast 3 out of 10

I've never known another missing persons case like it. It's a long drawn out money spinner who needs a new captain because everyone is tired of J manipulated drip feeds.

I get her wanting to make a carreer out of it or having het 5seconds of fame. If thzt’s what she wants i hope she succeeds. But then make sure she learnd, develops, fails & learns from it & accepts that as a newbie she can’t do it on her own.

We’re not searching for a rare pokemon card, we’re talking about a missing loved one & a long time fraud for gods sake.

P.I’s: ask around & keep their helping hands/sources close; police: ask around & keep their helping hands/sources close. Them: sniff around what others find & then pretending to finding it on their own, talking negative about others trying to help & failing at what they’re trying to do all alone. Think that’s going to help with that carreer & fame? It’s the absolute opposite.

There are a lot of cases who don’t get help, loved ones begging for info & help. They should be so so thankful for the support, time & love they receive.

I hope we, here, can get back at what we’re here for: sleuthing to try and find what happened to Marion. Hopefully finding enough about Rik/Frederik/Willy/… along the way to give to Aus Police.

& at the team: please reflect on your goals, methods & communication & come back better, stronger and with more respect for what you receive.

 

[mishy66]

Yep so agree

So many missing women and many dont even get media airtime.
This one has become a circus

No need to play like AH

There's already one of him

They need to stop and think about their actions

I didnt know Marion but I sure as hell know my loved ones would want everyone helping if they went missing.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

JMO but going back in time, I think 'doorstepping' the real Mr Remakel was where everything went on the wrong trajectory in terms of sleuthing, covert ops, detection, observation etc. It was taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut and it was also the wrong nut. MOO

Of course, I wish peace and resolution for SL and everyone who has suffered and justice for Marion.