Australia - Martin Place siege: 2 Hostages killed in Lindt Chocolate shop, Dec 2014 - #2

[Bravo]

Thanks for bringing your insight and perspective to this thread. Very interesting and much appreciated

Thank You. These Negotiators are amazing. What a tough job they have. I'm always in awe.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am in awe of them too, Bravo.

They spent hours and hours making sure violence didn't quickly escalate inside the cafe. They would have been buddying up to Monis, saying they were looking for a flag, that they aren't easy to find. They would have been asking him could they bring him anything else, food, water, blankets .. could they bring him somewhere safely, to talk to the religious person of his choice. They brought in his lawyer to try to help diffuse the situation.

And when a group of hostages escaped early in the piece they would have been frantically (and calmly) trying to reach him to talk him down, to keep the rest of the people alive.

And doing all of this without giving him the tools to turn this into an 'IS martyr' situation.

But as soon as shots were fired, all bets were off and in the special forces went.

They were amazing.

 

[SouthAussie]

I seriously doubt he was being persecuted in Iran. I think he managed to fool Australian immigration authorities. Either he believed he was persecuted but was deluded by his visions of grandeur, or he was running from something he did.

I read in an article that he stole $200,000 from people making travel arrangements, then scarpered off to Australia seeking 'political refuge'. If he was being persecuted, it was for grand theft.


ETA: Here is an article that speaks of it ... I guess we were well and truly sucked in. :sigh: I think we were having big political difficulties/differences with Iran then, weren't we?

An Iranian source told the Iran-focused Manoto News that Monis, known as Mohammad Hassan Manteqi in his home country, fled Iran in 1995 with about $200,000 entrusted with him by clients.
He had been the managing director of a tourist agency and had access to the cash to help about 50 customers apply for visas to visit western countries, the London-based site reported.
After arriving in Australia Monis campaigned to be granted asylum, despite an Interpol alert. His refugee status protected him from an Iranian extradition request alleging fraud.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ran-fled-country-200-000-customers-money.html

 

[LJKaust]

I read in an article that he stole $200,000 from people making travel arrangements, then scarpered off to Australia seeking 'political refuge'. If he was being persecuted, it was for grand theft.


ETA: Here is an article that speaks of it ... I guess we were well and truly sucked in. :sigh: I think we were having big political difficulties/differences with Iran then, weren't we?

I am without words. And a LICENCE?! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?! I bet I couldn't get a bloody gun licence!!! I wouldn't want one, but that's beside the point.

ps I am having so much trouble with WS the last couple of days. I'm getting a grey box and not being able to post and pages aren't loading up grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[LJKaust]

And re the demands, they have said that giving him what he wanted would've provided him with a bigger opportunity to perform his heinous acts publicly. The family members of the hostages were on social media asking people not to repost the requests and for them to not be met, for they put their family members at greater risk. We have no idea what was really going on behind the scenes and I think it's pretty sad to see them being criticised for what it seemed they did or didn't do.

 

[sweetcaro]

Early investigations point to both Tori AND Katrina have been executed by that I refuse to name.

http://www.news.com.au/national/tor...estigation-shows/story-e6frfkp9-1227159840953

"HOSTAGES Tori Johnson and Katrina Dawson were both shot by gunman Man Haron Monis before police opened fire and killed him early police investigations have shown.

Mr Johnson was believed to have been executed by Monis after being shot in the head with the shotgun. Ms Dawson had also suffered a shot gun blast to her body. She later died in hospital. While still in its infancy it appears the two had already been hit with shot gun blasts before police shot Monis multiple times."

 

[they'll get you]

Fantastic posts tonight guys. Really informative and thought provoking.

Thank you

 

[SouthAussie]

.

Tori's family visited the sea of flowers today.

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ts-sea-of-flowers-in-martin-place-in-pictures

 

[SouthAussie]

I got an email today inviting me to sign a petition that is circling right now to award Tori Johnson the Cross of Valour for helping to save lives and assist people in their escape. It says that he tackled the gunman not once, but twice, in his efforts to save 12 innocent people.

 

[zoran]

Have a look at his ex that was stabbed and set on fire. Very pretty lady ans he was only charged with being an accessory and out on bail WT..?


http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/17/17/02/monis-ex-told-of-his-increasing-paranoia

 

[Estelle]

Have a look at his ex that was stabbed and set on fire. Very pretty lady ans he was only charged with being an accessory and out on bail WT..?


http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/17/17/02/monis-ex-told-of-his-increasing-paranoia

That I think is because he gave a false alibi and had a faked accident. It will be interesting what Droudis says about him when her case comes up. I hope she is not still on bail!

 

[Estelle]

I am without words. And a LICENCE?! WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?! I bet I couldn't get a bloody gun licence!!! I wouldn't want one, but that's beside the point.

ps I am having so much trouble with WS the last couple of days. I'm getting a grey box and not being able to post and pages aren't loading up grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Tony Abbott announced that he had a gun licence but they later found out that he didn't.

 

[Estelle]

Stricter bail laws will take effect in about a month.


NSW Attorney-General Brad Hazzard said on Tuesday that stricter bail laws would take effect at the end of January, and it was "very unlikely" that Monis would have been released on bail had those rules been in place.

"This government changed the Bail Act to ensure greater safety for our community. It was changed to ensure that offenders involved in serious crime will not get bail," he said.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-monis...ial-bail-laws-brought-in-20141216-127zoe.html


Magistrate Joan Baptie is the one that gave him bail in the first place - despite identifying unacceptable risks.

Ms Baptie said she had identified two "unacceptable risks" – that Monis may endanger the safety of victims, individuals or the community, and that he may interfere with witnesses or evidence.

Excellent article on background of Monis. It appears that the Magistrate's name has not been correctly spelt by the media. It should be "William Pierce" Another man has been falsely accused as his name is "Pearce" .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ction-family-forced-hiding-death-threats.html

 

[Estelle]

Look what I found! It appears that this Magistrate, Bill (William) Pierce, was reported to the NSW Judiciary Commission back in 2005! If this is the same man, it appears that he could have some sort of reputation.


Police quiet over result of magistrate complaint

8 Feb 2005, 11:15amTue 8 Feb 2005, 11:15am

Police are not commenting on the result of a complaint they made about a visiting magistrate who ruled against some Wagga Wagga officers last year.

Last year, Wagga police indicated they would be reporting magistrate Bill Pierce to the New South Wales Judicial Commission.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2005-02-08/police-quiet-over-result-of-magistrate-complaint/633034

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Russell Brand weighs in: http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/cel...ydney-siege-to-terrorism-20141217-1293lr.html Good points about this NOT being terrorism, because it wasn't, it was a seige by a nutter using terrorism like symbology.

 

[Ellmau]

Excellent article on background of Monis. It appears that the Magistrate's name has not been correctly spelt by the media. It should be "William Pierce" Another man has been falsely accused as his name is "Pearce" .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ction-family-forced-hiding-death-threats.html

That's weird. It was definitely given as DP in the contemporary reports of the bail hearing,. e.g. this 2013 article in The Australian - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...weak-magistrate/story-e6frg6nf-1226781538379; that's pretty sloppy journalism assuming the reporter was at the court.

 

[drsleuth]

If there is CCTV footage from inside the lindt cafe, I hope that footage never gets released to the public......

http://www.news.com.au/national/lin...estigation-shows/story-e6frfkp9-1227160010308

Investigators are also sifting through CCTV footage from inside the cafe as well as thousands of hours of footage from Martin Place, railway stations and media outlets.

 

[Ausgirl]

ps I am having so much trouble with WS the last couple of days. I'm getting a grey box and not being able to post and pages aren't loading up grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

^ I get grey box issues, too, LJK. Ir's weird, just time to time. Reboot browser helps. Clearing cache doesn't. Was driving me batty for a while there. Seems better lately.

"Sea of Flowers" -- that phrase got me teary (again, I'm hopeless..) They should make the site of the Sea of the Flowers a small garden, IMO. Keep the flowers growing. Damn leaky eyes.

 

[SouthAussie]

Seems that he had a gun license when he was a security officer .. but it had expired.

Monis had revealed to police he had a firearm licence while working as a security officer but it had expired.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/17/17/02/monis-ex-told-of-his-increasing-paranoia

ETA: Ch 7 are reporting that police said he never had one in NSW. Maybe he was a security officer in another state, or maybe he was lying. I wonder why he told police he had an expired license .. what conversation led to that .. had he been found with an illegal firearm previously?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

On Radio just now it looks like his co-accused in the murder of his ex-wife is going to have her bail reviewed.

Link: http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...for-gunmans-wife/story-e6frfku9-1227160162272