Australia Australia - Michael, 29, Norah, 27, & Ellen Murphy, 18, Gatton, Qld, 26 Dec 1898

[Ausgirl]

The Lunney letters!

" It will be remembered that two letters were found near the scene of the murders addressed to a patient named Lunney in the Ipswich Hospital. It was hoped that these letters would assist in tracing the murderers. The man Lunney died in the hospital some two years since. Shortly before the time of his death a man named Burke was also an indoor patient of the hospital, and the two men became very intimate. Several oî Lunney's letters were missed after his decease. These are letters found in Moran's paddock after the discovery of the murders, and since that time the police have been anxiously endeavouring to trace the identity and movements of the man Burke, but so far without success. One theory is that Burke was really Burgess under another name, but that idea appears to have been discredited."

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3218379

Lots of odd stuff flung about Moran's paddock that night, it seems.

AND I just read a blog in which it's stated that Edith May Cook WAS the girl who died of the abortion.. not Kate Ryan.

Idk. I'll get to the bottom of it. I will! :banghead:

 

[Robin Hood]

So, the Murphy's were killed 2 years to the day that Edith May died, during what is believed to be an abortion. So, the fact she must have been in a terrible state somebody signed a death cert and no inquiry was made. Then there's the other girls dropping like flies and numerous chaps called Bound, Burke and Burgess. Looks like somebody was setting up other folk and leaving clues everywhere.
The rigorous sex seems really odd too, after all the hangings done at the time somebody would know the difference between death erection and sex. Also, who's doing these abortions ? I read the pdf in a post above explaining how many people lived in the area, there wouldn't be endless candidates for the job.

 

[quock]

We all know that the doctor who performed the first post mortem (Dr. von Lossberg) was not the most observant person in the world, but this aspect of the P.M. is strange. Whilst probing with his finger for the bullet in Michaels head (I thought proper medical men would use a metal instrument for that) von Lossberg claimed that a bone splinter pricked his finger and he immediately (after washing his hands in a disinfectant fluid) felt a "numbness going up my arm, and a swelling of the finger." He stated later that he had got blood poisoning and (Quote) " I was three months ill, and I have still the effects on my body in blotches on the skin ; even my hands show still the marks of abscesses and all sorts of things. I felt regularly ill for three months from the blood poisoning." Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I put it to you that firstly - blood poisoning could not have presented symptoms as swiftly as it did (and last so long in the good Doctor's system) unless maybe there was an administered man-made poison in Michael's lifeless body. If poison was present in the body, perhaps all three Murphy siblings were first drugged with poison at another location and then transported dead to the "murder" site, where the horrific injuries were inflicted on site. That, at least, would explain the lack of signs of a life and death struggle at the scene. As there was no blood to be found in the Murphy's cart, it would suggest that at least two murderers were involved - one to convey the bodies, whilst the other (dropping the harness chin strap on the way) led the Murphy's horse back before shooting it at the scene. Whilst Thomas Day would seem to be the obvious candidate for being the murderer, this would only fit if he acted alone. From what we know of the man, he was a furtive loner who would barely speak much more than single syllable words, and he doesn't strike you as being a person who would "hunt with a pack." We have to eliminate Richard Burgess as having a part in this, simply because he basically had a cast iron alibi for not being around Gatton at the time of the murders. Yes, the police tried their hardest to pin it on him, even going to the lengths of travelling with him over his stated routes around the district, but all to no avail as his story was backed up by people he had claimed to have met on the way. Even so, Mr. Burgess made some interesting statements that would indicate he knew more about the crime (and the Murphy's) than he was letting on. When in the Dalby police cells on the 6th January 1899, (Quote)...."he is said to have spoken freely of the Gatton murders, saying that the eldest girl Murphy (presumably Norah, not Polly) was a great flirt, and that it was time she was put out of the road." Was the mother (Mary Murphy) perhaps a "back-yard" abortionist, maybe even assisted in that work by Norah ? If the story about Michael Murphy fathering a child is true, that might be reason enough for someone to want both Norah and Michael dead.

 

[Ausgirl]

I had actually thought the blood poisoning thing was odd, myself. Mind you, groping about in human brain matter that's been dead a few days bare-handed is NOT the most sanitary of practises. But the swiftness of the onset, mere minutes, is something I've wanted to research....

The blog I mentioned made a pretty good (but certainly not inarguable!( case for there having been an abortion planned, and the murders happening after it all went horribly wrong. So while it's not the theory uppermost in my mind, it's surely worth a lookit.

Planted evidence... well, there were a lot of anomalous things found in that paddock which apparently nobody often went to. Those letters linked to Ipswich hospital, a wad of paper from the Ag college used to stop up a pipe (which Michael didn't smoke), the news clipping...

The news clipping thing is driving me bonkers.

- The Murphys claim to have such a clipping, and that several family members knew it was stored in a box in Ellen's room. And that they knew it had mysteriously vanished six months before the murders.

I find this a tad difficult, mainly as the Murphys demonstrate collective amnesia about some other, more important things, and apparently weren't all that observant in general. But they know where this scrap of paper was kept, and that it had vanished six months ago?

- The Murphys were so tight-lipped that the magistrate at the hearing admonished them all, multiple times, for not speaking in a forthright manner. But they volunteer the info about this little clipping, in detail.. and I am moved to wonder why.

- Why put it at the murder scene? Was that deliberate? Was it dropped by accident? In any case, someone at the crime scene was in possession of that clipping a year (almost to the day) after Edith May's death - so it's not unfeasible to assume that it held some importance to them.

That, or the point was to make it -seem- the clipping was significant to the killer.

Shenanigans! Idk, makes my head spin.

So just some general observations for now..

I do get the picture that Mrs. Murphy was a right old control freak, fighting a losing battle to make her family seem fundamentally respectable. I am pretty sure Polly was sent away due her to her decade-long 'romance' with Tom Ryan, who was not good enough to marry her.. to the point where Polly was beaten for keeping it going - and she then ends up knocked up by a man the family have never met (I wonder what the story was there - where she was staying, etc), and nobody goes to the wedding as far as I can tell, though the Murphys say they objected to the match on various grounds. They don't even meet McNeill until Polly becomes ill and he needs help with caring for her and the kids.

Michael knocked (I want to say Edith May, but it's still not concrete yet) a girl up, who had an abortion and died. Questions are pointedly asked about his relationship with another local girl (Kate Ryan) who had also died. Made me wonder.. since it would have been almost unthinkable for a man not to marry a girl he'd made pregnant. It just was not done, especially in 'nice' society. So was Mrs. Murphy once more making choices for her kids, there? Was it Michael or his mum sacrificing his honour and good name for .. what? Pride? A chance at a "better" (upwardly mobile) match? Idk..

Some local boys showed too much interest in Norah, so Mrs. Murphy had the local dances shut down. Histrionics of that magnitude were not beyond her.

Nothing vital there, just a picture of the Murphys - in particular, Mrs. M., forming in my mind's eye as I read things over.

Lotta reading to do...

 

[quock]

I had actually thought the blood poisoning thing was odd, myself. Mind you, groping about in human brain matter that's been dead a few days bare-handed is NOT the most sanitary of practises. But the swiftness of the onset, mere minutes, is something I've wanted to research....

Keep in mind that the bodies were less than 24 hours old here. Dr. von Lossberg left Ipswich on the 2 p.m. train on the afternoon of Tuesday 27th December, arriving in Gatton at 4 p.m. and went straight to the hotel to commence the post mortems. Ellen Murphy's body was the first to be examined, and Dr. von Lossberg was of the opinion that she had only been dead 12 to 16 hours "certainly less than 24 hours". The P.M. for all 3 bodies took something like 2 hours and 20 minutes, with Dr. von Lossberg departing Gatton on the 8 p.m. train that same night. Whilst being fairly vague on the subject, we are left to conclude that more than one male was involved in the crime, if only by the insinuation that a large quantity of sperm was present, both internally and on both girl's clothing.

 

[Ausgirl]

24 hours of Aussie summer heat doesn't do a dead body any favours, though.. I just did a bit of research on sepsis onset (scary, as I have a compromised immune system and get it pretty regularly myself..) and I found that signs of severe sepsis can set in as soon as 30 mins from the introduction of bacteria into the blood stream. So maybe not so unfeasible that the doctor got sick not long after getting pricked by a bone smeared with rotting brain matter. (why do I suddenly not feel like eating lunch...)

I am not convinced there was more than one assailant. I don't discount it one bit, but I can't take it as hard fact. A single man with a gun pointed at somebody's head can very quickly turn a whole roomful of people passive and compliant. The East Area rapist managed to rape and kill women as they lay next to their husbands in bed. Dennis Rader was also good at multiple-victim rapes and homicides. It's not impossible that one man murdered all victims and raped both girls.

If the witness accounts are anywhere near accurate, it can be guessed that Michael and the horse both died fairly soon after 9.30 - 10pm but there's no indication of how quickly the girls died after that. He could have had them tied up for an hour, two hours, three... plenty of time to rape both.

EAR raped his victims multiple times per crime scene, two or three or more times in just an hour or two.

Binding is also a tool of the single perp.. not exclusively, but they do tend to employ it when there's multiple vics.

Not saying multiple perps didn't happen - just that a single man armed with a gun can control multiple unarmed people, too.

Question of the hour for me: why'd McNeill poop himself when they called his wife in to give evidence, and shunt her off to Toowoomba on a train, a far more physically tiring journey than taking a buggy a few mins down the road to the courthouse.. Like I said before, the man -makes- me want to suspect him. :\

 

[quock]

I am not convinced there was more than one assailant. I don't discount it one bit, but I can't take it as hard fact. A single man with a gun pointed at somebody's head can very quickly turn a whole roomful of people passive and compliant. The East Area rapist managed to rape and kill women as they lay next to their husbands in bed. Dennis Rader was also good at multiple-victim rapes and homicides. It's not impossible that one man murdered all victims and raped both girls

Nothing about this case should be regarded as impossible ! From all reports, Thomas Day was a heavily built and physically strong young man - this fact was noted by his employer Clarke when they were killing and stringing-up a beast, as Day performed the latter task seemingly without effort. This takes us back to Clarkes' sometimes conflicting statements - sometimes he says that Day only attended the coppers and carted meat into town ; other times (as above) he says that he (Day) helped Clarke with slaughtering. If it was human blood on Day's jumper, and he wore it around for a day or so in broad daylight, what does that tell you about the man's character ?

 

[Ausgirl]

I really, really must read that book, Q.

I'd love to examine Clarke's statements re Day..

Will be scouring ebay this weekend for it..

 

[Robin Hood]

http://www.gattonmurders.com/
Thomas Day

Two weeks later Thomas Day claiming that he didn't like his employer's food, packed his gear and disappeared.

It is known he enlisted in the military sometime after he left Gatton and deserted in May 1899 and was never heard of again.

DESERTERS FROM HER MAJESTY'S SERVICE.
DESERTED from " A " Battery, Queensland Permanent Artillery, at Lytton Fort, on the 13th instant, Thomas Day, gunner, Description:- 22½ years of age, 5 feet 8½ inches high, medium build, fresh complexion, dark-brown hair, hazel eyes; a labourer, and native of Cunnamulla, Queensland. Said to be known to Mr. Clarke, Tent Hill, Gatton.

 

[quock]

The doctor attending the second post-mortem (Dr. Wray) said -"The bullet wound in Michael's head was inflicted before the wounds on the head. Had the bullet been discharged into his head after the skull was fractured there would have been no resistance to the bullet, and it would have passed right through".

 

[quock]

EVIDENCE JOHN WIGGINS
"John Wiggins, a dairy farmer, living three miles from Gatton along the Tent Hill road, deposed that he left Gatton with his brother on horseback at 10 o'clock on Boxing Night, passing Moran's sliprails at about twenty minutes past 10. They had three dogs with them, which went sniffing inside the rails, especially a black kangaroo dog. He did not notice tracks leading up to the rails.
Inspector Urquhart: Were the rails up? I could not say.
Inspector Urquhart: What? -I could not say.
Inspector Urquhart: That is nonsense. You say you don't know, when the dogs went in? -They went into the paddock there.
You said they went through the rails? -They went into the paddock. I could not say where.
Then your evidence is wrong.
What are you swearing to? -I don't think they went through the rails. They were just inside the paddock.
Continuing, he said they met no one on the way home.
Before reaching the sliprails they met four boys walking. Of these he only knew one-Fred Mountain"
(this evidence obviously of no consequence !)

 

[quock]

The above evidence was of no value apparently, because Inspector Urquhart thought that even the prime suspect (Thomas Day) was a youth, and therefore could not be considered as a murderer candidate - (Quoting from Constable R.G. Christie's report, being questioned by Mr. Unmack with regard to Thomas Day)
(Quote)......."What rot, Christie; he is only a mere boy; he could not commit that crime; he is a beardless boy." I (Christie) said, "If he is only a beardless boy, Bob King, at Clarke's place, told me he was thirty years old, and weighed between thirteen and fourteen stone." Inspector Urquhart said, "Bob King is a damned liar if he told you such a thing." I (Christie) was afraid to send in my report through him (Urquhart) threatening me."

 

[quock]

It is patently obvious to anyone who reads through the questions asked of (and answers given by) the Murphy family as a whole, that they were all hiding something, which prevented them from answering fully and truthfully. It seems certain that the only reason they would protect a person suspected of brutally murdering three of their own is, the alternative (ie. the ugly secret they wished not to disclose) was of greater importance. Here, the prime object of our attention must turn now to the husband of Polly, the eldest daughter. Why did McNeil go to such great lengths to prevent his wife from giving evidence ? And why (when the police finally got her into the courtroom) did she twice refuse to swear that her husband never left the bed they shared with their child on the night of 26th December, 1898 ?

 

[quock]

Countless theories of course, have been put forward to explain this mystery, and I suppose that on average, half those theories rely on the murder's being pre-meditated, whilst the other half rely on the crime being a spontaneous, opportunistic event. The biggest argument against it being a premeditated crime, is the fact that the dance in Gatton had been unexpectedly cancelled, and how could anyone have predicted that ? It is just possible I suppose, that one of the dance organisers could have planned on the Murphy's coming to the dance, knowing (or suspecting) that it wasn't going ahead as planned and then planted some accomplices back along the road to await the unfortunate three. Even if it was premeditated, and the culprit knew that the Murphy's were going to attend the dance, he (or she) would not be expecting them to be returning home until the early hours of the morning, probably not for another 4 hours or more. Thus, on this premise, it would seem much more likely that the foul crime was not pre-planned, but an isolated random attack. Even the enigmatic McNeil, staying with the family, would have only known that the three had left for the dance, but not knowing when they would return, especially unexpectedly early.......

 

[Robin Hood]

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=DTN19000222.2.24

The Broadford tragedy.
Another town, another butcher, 1 year to the day.

 

[quock]

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=DTN19000222.2.24

The Broadford tragedy.
Another town, another butcher, 1 year to the day.

Was this Mr. Jones also Thomas Day ?

 

[Flinders]

Hi All, Can anyone who posts give us girls a warning.. Re Semen.

I have looked on eBay and there are only 2 books in print. I live in a digital age and asked my author friend why not? He said to publish books per iBooks, the onus on author. This author had his book and hand written manuscript in the National Archives of Australia.

Long story but.... How do we get published authors in Oz get back to the general public? I have been following another author a part from this.

Any thoughts on how authors can collaborate re software which prevents them from a kindle book and keeps their publisher happy?

 

[quock]

Hi All, Can anyone who posts give us girls a warning.. Re Semen.

I have looked on eBay and there are only 2 books in print. I live in a digital age and asked my author friend why not? He said to publish books per iBooks, the onus on author. This author had his book and hand written manuscript in the National Archives of Australia.

Long story but.... How do we get published authors in Oz get back to the general public? I have been following another author a part from this.

Any thoughts on how authors can collaborate re software which prevents them from a kindle book and keeps their publisher happy?

Sorry, I cannot understand your question - please rephrase it

 

[Ausgirl]

The biggest argument against it being a premeditated crime, is the fact that the dance in Gatton had been unexpectedly cancelled, and how could anyone have predicted that ?

First - I have to say THANK YOU to Robin for that awesome bit of sleuthing re the butcher in Broadmeadows - well worth a look into! What's the odds of 1/ that murder being precisely a year to the day later -added to- the fact that "Jones" was in the Gatton area when the Murphys were murdered? Long odds, is what. Very worth a look-at.

Quock, that question above has bothered me since day 1 of reading up on this crime.

I have thought that them even going to this dance was long odds, since they'd been out at the races all day and Norah wasn't feeling well.

But Michael -insisted- they go, even though the indomitable Mrs Murphy had said they should stay home and the girls weren't that keen.

Norah seemed to be grasping for reasons not to go (Polly's little one would fret without her) - but McNeill insisted too, saying -he- would take care of the baby. He then went and helped hitch the pony to his 'sulky'.

There was also a witness who heard someone (I forget the name presently..) at the races telling the girls that Michael had already at that earlier hour arranged for them all go to the dance and he's see them all there later or something - there seemed to be a joke pass between this man and the girls, but the witness didn't understand it.

Anyway, plenty of people knew prior to 7pm that the Murphys would be going to the dance later that night. Including a pile of people with good cause for a grudge against one Murphy or the other.

Questions were raised as to why the dance at Gatton was organised at all, since there was one in Mt Sylvia as well - even some of the other Murphys chose to go to that one as it was deemed the popular choice. But -Michael- was made to promise to go to Gatton and take his sisters....

Also questioned was the timing of both the Murphys' arrival (it took them a long time to get there, when it wasn't all that far from home) and the cancellation of the event - they arrived just as the doors were locked, a mere ten minutes too late - was it really too late to call the band back? Apparently most of the people were still there at the hotel, but the Murphys didn't hang around to talk to anyone, apparently , they are said to have left immediately.

One thing that struck me was the pointed comments that without the Murphy girls, the dance could not be held -as there was not enough girls to dance with-...

Considering the spate of deaths among young females in the area, and Micheal's association with at least two of these dead girls.. I wondered if that wasn't a sort of sideways dig, resentment of the Murphys showing..

I also have to wonder whether McNeill paid somebody to knock the Murphy kids off. I'd really like to look into this business of his butcher shop burning down a bit more, too....

I also like the random killer theory. Especially with this new "Jones" feller to look into.

Great thinking, all. Gets my wheels turning, thanks!

 

[dougie]

I must have missed this before.A contradiction in Seargant Arrels testimony re..Was there or was there not blood stains on the Sulky?
Evidence at the Commission.
Seargant Arrel on the stand.
Q. Did you examine the cart for traces of blood?
A. yes
Q were there any?
A not that i could see.I examined the trap again ,and I saw a little tint of blood.
Q how did you know it was blood?
A I thought it looked like blood.
Q did you point it out to your superior officer?
A yes.