Australia Australia - Michael, 29, Norah, 27, & Ellen Murphy, 18, Gatton, Qld, 26 Dec 1898

[Robin Hood]

I still have lots more to read but I wanted to post this link. It mentions the names of the men who organised the dance and the names of some brothers. A few more suspects who would know the dance was cancelled and that the Murphy's would be heading home early.

BTW Lucas was in his stable, so the deaf horse isn't him.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/20857896?searchTerm=&searchLimits=l-publictag=Gatton+Murders

 

[Robin Hood]

Does anybody else find it odd that Pat Murphy who went with them, doesn't seem to feature in the evidence or newspapers ?

I was just looking, trying to catch up and found this, has anybody else read it ? Maybe it's just me lagging behind, as per usual
http://www.gattonmurders.com/Why.pdf

 

[dougie]

I'm totally outa here dougie - I'll leave you in charge of solving the crime

Bon voyage

 

[Ausgirl]

Does anybody else find it odd that Pat Murphy who went with them, doesn't seem to feature in the evidence or newspapers ?

I was just looking, trying to catch up and found this, has anybody else read it ? Maybe it's just me lagging behind, as per usual
http://www.gattonmurders.com/Why.pdf

Yea! I do think it's odd. I've been looking for Pat Murphy's testimony all over the place, came up with nothing. Good call, something to look into.

And yup, I've seen it - the questions raise a few facts but they're facts I'd like to verify (bullet casing under the horse, McNeil's gun being cut down, etc) before I add them to the fact list.

Interesting q's about McNeill's clothing...

One thing that's caught my eye - the condition of the bodies being described as unusually pliant - ie, rigor ought to have set in by morning.. and the noticeable lack of flies. This is Australia - flies are everywhere and on everything in summer aside from the early hours of morning when they're too chilled to swarm about. But again, I would like to see that included in the official reports.. I am sure it is, it's just a matter of finding it.

The blanket having a lot more blood on it than Norah would have lost -- I've seen this in another multiple homicide case, where it's proposed the bloody item was used as a 'staging ground' for several murders before a body was left on it. Could also have been used by the killer to avoid getting a lot of blood on themselves before shooting/beating.

Winter bills have my budget strings tight for the moment, when they're not so, I'll be purchasing all the booklets on that site as well as a few of the other published books.

 

[Ausgirl]

Robin - from the article you linked above - some interesting stuff re the crime scene:

- there's a bit of interesting evidence re the scalp wounds on the girls being both on the left side and being 'almost identical', whereas with Michael the wounds were all on the right.

- Norah had a gash over her right eye, which resembled a knife cut but was caused, according to this examiner, by the skin splitting under a heavy blow (Aus-note: these wounds may have bled a lot if they were not post-mortem, I had a similar split once and it bled like the dickens..)

- the strap around Norah's neck left a deep imprint everywhere but for a 4-ich (hand-sized) patch of clear skin on the right side, the examiner proposing that this is where the strap was held.

- Norah's hand showed significant postmortem bruising around the wrists, but Ellen's did not. Examiner notes that Norah's hand must have been tied pretty tightly to leave marks like that and that perhaps Ellen's weren't tied so tightly, and thus did not have such marks after death.

- Norah's knees were abrased.

- Michael's blunt force wounds to the head occurred after he was shot. There was no sign of trauma on Michael's body.

The left-right thing might give some clues. But as I am significantly left/right-challenged, I'll have to go away and figure out possible scenarios using 3-d models. Ie, my offspring and the cats.

 

[Ausgirl]

Another snippet, re the Lunney letters:

"It may be mentioned that John Lunney was well known in the Gatton district, and that the letters found near the scene of the tragedy in Moran's paddock were from his wife and son, and had some reference to an expected legacy."

 

[Ausgirl]

From a 1928 recap of the crime on its 30-year anniversary:

"A few yards from the sliprails there was a slight dip in the roadway, and it was at this spot that the Murphy's were first encountered by their murderer. Here was found a cartridge-case of a .380 bore. Either Michael Murphy was shot here, or else the murderer fired in the air to show that he was armed, and then ordered Murphy to drive through the sliprails, and pointed the revolver at him for the whole of the distance to the clearing, At least four shots were fired-one into the head, and one into the body of the horse. The bullets were all of .380 bore.."

The author cites his source:

"This information, together with other facts relating to the crime, has been furnished to me by an esteemed colleague, who was early on the scene and was the last newspaper representative to leave Gatton. "

This article states also that only Norah had been raped, and not both girls. ( ..?)

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article40650086

Also, from another paper, on yet another piece of evidence discovered by McNeill:

"W. McNeill has discovered fragments of a letter, which have been put together by the police. The letter is unsigned, is dated January 1, and says:—"Dear Brother— Just a few lines. I hope you are quite well. I have been over the ground of the murdered family, and I can say that the police and blacktrackers have not been to Campbell's paddock yet." The police are very doubtful whether the letter is genuine."

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article29429773

 

[STANDREID]

Hmm - I wonder why only one case was found. Maybe he reloaded and just accidentally dropped one of the cases. They probably weren't up to speed in checking it for fingerprints.

 

[Ausgirl]

Correct, Stan - they simply didn't have the know-how for fingerprinting at the time.

Tentative info on the casings... (I'd still like more verification on these):

1 casing found on the 'dip' in the road near the rails ?

1 casing under the horse.

1 bullet IN the horse?

1 bullet in Michael's head.

Stan - I know next to nothing about guns and ammunition.. what's it with "casing" and "bullet"? Any speculation you may have on the weapon involved is ofc very welcome!

 

[STANDREID]

From a 1928 recap of the crime on its 30-year anniversary:

"A few yards from the sliprails there was a slight dip in the roadway, and it was at this spot that the Murphy's were first encountered by their murderer. Here was found a cartridge-case of a .380 bore. Either Michael Murphy was shot here, or else the murderer fired in the air to show that he was armed, and then ordered Murphy to drive through the sliprails, and pointed the revolver at him for the whole of the distance to the clearing, At least four shots were fired-one into the head, and one into the body of the horse. The bullets were all of .380 bore.."

Do they truly know that the weapon was a revolver and that at least four shots were fired? If it was a revolver, the only normal reason to unload the empty cartridge casing is to reload with a live cartridge.

 

[Ausgirl]

Stan - I have no clear idea, really.

I do know there was speculation the gun might have been cut down in some way from a rifle? possibly. This was mentioned in connection with McNeill being a major suspect.

When I get a bit of time, I'll gather up all I can find on the gun and make a post of it for you to ponder on.

 

[STANDREID]

I was wondering if it could have been something like a two barrel derringer.

 

[Ausgirl]

Forgive my utter ignorance about guns, Stan - but why would you consider that particular weapon? Does it eject cartridges? And doesn't a double barrel gun fire two bullets at once?

Apparently the spent cartridge found under the horse was dirty and bent.


Interesting snippet re Patrick Murphy's hard-to-find testimony:

"Patrick Murphy, brother of the victims, denied Detective Toomey's statement that he told Toomey he suspected M'Neil. He suspected Day."

Toomey must have been quite hard of hearing, to mix "McNeill" up with "Day".

Just a little recap, re the trip to the races on Boxing Day:

McNeill and Polly went in the dog-cart.
Ellen and Michael rode their own horses there.
Norah did not go to the races, according to one source - but did go, according to others (and was seen there by a pile of people) - must look up who said she wasn't there.. I think it was Mrs. Murphy.
Mr. & Mrs. Murphy spent the day at a farmhouse "some miles away".

"Kate Murphy, 18 years of age. a daughter of the last witness, deposed that before the party went to Mount Sylvia races she heard Pat tell Norah to be ready to go to a dance at Gatton in the evening."

From William Murphy:

"The witness deposed to Norah and Helen going to the races on Boxing Day. Men named Will Connolly, John Tracey, and Robert Smith spoke to them there, but no mention in his bearing was made by any of them of a dance at Gatton the same night. Michael informed him he was going home early to go to the dance, but witness could not say where M'Neill was at at time. Witness rode home with Helen, and asked her if she was going to the dance. She replied she did not know. They got home at half-past 6 o'clock, and turned the horses in the yard."

And some bits and pieces:

Mrs. Murphy didn't go to bed til around midnight, as she was caring for Polly's 2yo, who wouldn't settle, in a small building close to the house. But wasn't McNeill's excuse for not going that he'd look after the baby? Apparently he went to bed with a headache somewhere between 9 - 9.30pm.

The horse that was shot was named - Tom. And he belonged to Mr. Murphy.

Polly apparently could not attend court due to a severe bout of dysentery. Though she managed to go to Toowoomba?.. must have made a lot of unpleasant pit stops on the way, then.

McNeill stated that Mrs. Murphy begged him to "For God's sake.." go looking for her kids.
Mrs. Murphy said she did not such thing, and that it was McNeill himself who suggested he go looking for them..

 

[Ausgirl]

And just some stuff re: Murphys having enemies...

The majority of persons asked about this swear up and down that the Murphys were squeaky clean and had not an enemy in the world. BUT..according to Mrs. Murphy ("witness" below) there were several:

"Witness ... had lived at several places, including Spring Creek. There she knew two girls named Julia and Minnie Gleeson, who had a brother then 15 years of age. The girls were school teachers. There was some unpleasantness between witness and Julia, in consequence of which she reported the girl to the Education Department. The girl was then removed. There were also some letters about the matter written to the Ipswich police. Subsequently Julia went out of her mind, and was removed to an asylum. The girl's brother's name was John. Witness never heard that he had threatened to have revenge upon her, but she did hear that Minnie had said so. Julia once came to her house in witness's absence and wanted to get Norah to sign some document. She was very bitter over the matter, and the quarrel was never made up.

She remembered her sons, Michael and William, taking a contract for fencing for John Moran, sen. There was some dispute about the payment, and it was never cleared up. "

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3689647

Moran, of course, owned the "Moran's paddock" where the murders occurred.

So, along with Mrs. Murphy wrecking her daughter's romances, ruining careers and driving neighbours into asylums, there were also arguments over money, angry shearers and possibly more than one young lady who'd been left in the lurch by Michael Murphy and subsequently died.

Seems to me the Murphys were actually rather good at annoying people..

 

[STANDREID]

Forgive my utter ignorance about guns, Stan - but why would you consider that particular weapon? Does it eject cartridges? And doesn't a double barrel gun fire two bullets at once?

No, each barrel fires independently and they do not eject shells. If 2 casings were found and 4 shots were fired then the perp could have fired two shots from a preloaded weapon then popped out the two empty casings and reloaded then fired two more shots, leaving the two empty shell casings in the gun when he fled. The flaw in that theory is that normally the two empty casings would be found close together (unless he was on the run as he reloaded). Also, there are .380 double barrel derringers on the market now but, although I would assume so, I don't know for sure about 1898. There was a .41 caliber for certain then - I wonder how accurately they measured the bullet.

 

[stevebehnke]

Oho - seems I get the tinny. Found this, on the gattonmurders.com site: (bbm)

Butcher from Westbrook.
At the time he had two children: Beatrice born in 1896 and Daniel Joseph born in 1898.
William McNeil in his later years moved to Kingaroy where he died at the age of eighty years on 12 September 1950.
One day in 1916 he displayed the horsemanship for which he was renowned when he rescued a three year old girl from a sulky drawn by a maddened horse as it bolted through the streets of Toowoomba.
McNeill was driving in the town when he saw the bolting horse with the child alone in the sulky.
He took in the situation at a glance, stood up in his own vehicle and, lashing his horse to a gallop, set out after and overtook the bolting horse. Reaching over, he plucked the child to safety.
For this notable act of bravery William McNeill was, awarded a bronze medal by the Royal Humane Society on 8 February 1917.
It appears he went on to become a linesman. William McNeill, Margaret Street Toowoomba, linesman Post and Telegraph

... but the pav's still on offer for info on the burned shop.

Hi there,
Maybe I should get half that tinny, that quote came from my work and site www.gattonmurders.com
I have been on the case for years and am pretty confident I have the answer.
I'll add another tinny if info can be found about the shop burning down.

Regards,
Steve

 

[stevebehnke]

Robin -- fireworks. I'd forgotten about the fireworks! And what time they were going off.. which may well make sense of Old Deafy (I've also forgotten the horse's name, go me).

I'd actually wondered whether Michael was shot from horseback - or someone standing on the side of the cart - thinking, in his seat in the cart, he'd be slightly lower maybe, and was dispatched pretty quick so he had little time to bleed before being shoved out. Or - he was just told to get on his knees once they were at the paddock. Very little (or no, depending on what you read) blood was found in the cart, but I have to assume the three Murphys were either fooled or co-erced at gunpoint into entering the paddock without a huge fight or fuss... And the majority of the violence escalated once they were out of the vehicle.

This is why the police were so very interested in the state of the sliprails (and McNeill's various stories about those) - as somebody would have had to drop the rails to let the cart in. And then put them back up - maybe. Depending on which version you read... Which might have in turn hinted to the way things panned out.

Stan, yes - two shots, definitely, one for the horse and one for Michael, that's for sure.

It's very late here now but tomorrow will dig about for ballistics info. And the name of that horse.. and what time the fireworks started.

Now I'm tiredly wondering if they were invited into the paddock to watch the fireworks. Maybe they had a good view from there..

The Horses name was Tom.
I'm now pretty certain the killers name was "Father"?

Regards,
Steve

 

[stevebehnke]

O.K...1".Day lived in close vicinity"....hardly conclusive evidence is it? On that basis ,you would no doubt have locked up half the neighbourhood?
2."Frequently seen standing and smoking"...Oh I see....well that settles it then ,doesnt it?..must have been him.
3."day slept with his clothes and boots on"........What? he also slept with windows and door open at night! ........Which proves exactly what?
4."Clarke distrusted Day,and thought Day might throw him into the boilers" Well we all know what thought did dont we?
5. "He was silent and aloof "....And?
6. Day was checked out.Now just because the police couldnt find what you want them to have found doesnt mean Urquart was "as dumb as a drum with a hole in it" or suffering from this contagious "mental block" you speak of. Finding no reason to pursue a particular line of inquiry isnt same as ignoring it......ever thought maybe there were things held back ?
If that is the sum total of evidence against Day ,then it would be surprising if Urquart HADNT dismissed Day as a suspect .
Yes Quoit I read earlier your theory that Day was a member of the Royal Family and hence He was given a "free pass".That theory was unworthy of comment then......and nothing has changed since.

Why Thomas Day Could Have DUNNIT
1. Had a couple of spots of blood on a jumper
2. He was apparantly alone that night
3. Was staying not far from the scene
4. He was seen walking along the road a couple of times
5. He was 5ft 8½ tall (It was said by witnesses the man at the slip-rails was between 5ft 7in. and 5ft 9in)
Why Thomas Day Could Not Have
1. Had no access to a horse
2. He did not have a gun
3. They would not call him Father
4. He was used to opening slip-rails and would not have left them across the gateway.
5. He did not know the victims
6. He did not know the area
7. Unlikely to own a silk handkerchief. One was found at the scene
8. He had no authority over the victims to entice them into the paddock

Regards,
Steve

 

[stevebehnke]

Hi there,
Maybe I should get half that tinny, that quote came from my work and site www.gattonmurders.com
I have been on the case for years and am pretty confident I have the answer.
I'll add another tinny if info can be found about the shop burning down.

Regards,
Steve

 

[stevebehnke]

Does anybody else find it odd that Pat Murphy who went with them, doesn't seem to feature in the evidence or newspapers ?

I was just looking, trying to catch up and found this, has anybody else read it ? Maybe it's just me lagging behind, as per usual
http://www.gattonmurders.com/Why.pdf

Not only read it but wrote it. I have progressed a long way since then.

Regards,
Steve