• #21
The stopping and eating a meal from the victim's kitchen in the middle of an attack at a victim's home is also very similar to DeAngelo.

MOO

I find Mr. Cruel to basically be an upgraded and powered up version of Beast of Jersey.

They both used clever red herrings, didn't really have murder as their primary MO, targeted children.

I have always wondered if Mr. Cruel had served overlapping prison time with Beast of Jersey or read about him when searching for inspiration.

Beast of Jersey was in prison when many of the Mr. Cruel crimes occurred.

I have also read speculation that Mr. Cruel was the Baklava Killer who was also Australian and active around the same time.
 
  • #22
To go further into the Beast of Jersey comparison, I snipped and edited a bit of a post I made in another Mr. Cruel thread:

The Beast of Jersey and Mr. Cruel have a lot of similarities.

The Beast basically terrorized the island of Jersey between 1957 and 1971.

It's all but mathematically impossible for them to be the same person as The Beast was caught and served prison time between 1971-1981 before dying in 1994.

The Beast wore a creepy mask (but also had an outfit with spiked wrist bracelets) and would kidnap and SA young children of both genders, taking them from their homes and returning them. Murder was not his MO, and there is not solid proof he ever killed any of his victims, though it is said he threatened to.

He gave red herrings that the victims could hear, much like Mr. Cruel. He would mention how he needed a smoke when he didn't smoke, much like Mr Cruel would make calls with no one on the other end.

One thing the Beast did that I have never heard speculated for Mr Cruel is that The Beast was a Satan worshipper. He would sometimes try to kidnap adult women at places like bus stops, and they reported him to have a very musty odor. This was because the outfit he used was specifically for carrying out his madness.

The way he was caught was actually quite comical. He ran out of his car for some reason after a pair of cops pursued him. He was in his outfit and when he was apprehended, he tried saying he was dressed that way because he had just came from an orgy and did not want his wife to find out.

The Beast personal life made him appear to be a kind man that cared deeply for children.

I wonder how many more similarities and differences there are for the two?

I also wonder if Mr Cruel could have been inspired some by The Beast? Had he heard about him? Read about him during a prison stint?
 
  • #23
  • #24
Looks interesting, from link..
''The Hunters is the first TV program to uncover DNA evidence that proves there were at least two offenders in the Mr Cruel cases.

As well as an interview with one of the victims, it also features former police investigators speaking publicly, some who are prepared to back up the multiple offender theory.''
''The Hunters: Mr Cruel premieres 7.30pm Monday on Channel 7 and 7plus''
 
  • #25
I think it might be a situation like Joseph DeAngelo. He quit in the mid to late eighties, most probably primarily because of the pioneering breakthrough of DNA starting to be used to solve crimes. This offender seems similarly forensically aware. The way he forced his victims to clean themselves and brush their teeth. He understood trace evidence that could be left in and on the body, and how to remove it. He also had Joseph DeAngelo's lack of hesitation to kill if he could be identified, if the theory about why he killed Karmein is accurate. DeAngelo killed several times before it became a consistent part of his MO, each time because someone confronted him or stumbled across him. Claude Snelling, and Brian and Katie Maggiore. Detective William McGowen only survived because the shot DeAngelo fired at him hit his flashlight, not his head, a difference of a couple of inches.

MOO
Although I am new to this forum have had a great interest in this topic for a long time.

I agree with you that this person was Like Joseph DeAngelo. De Angelo was a police officer whose primary motivation was to show that he was 'superior' to his police colleagues. He primarily was not a sex offender. The spectrum task force in Victoria approached this case from a 'sex offender' perspective and failed to identify any convincing assailants. I actually think this is a 'police officer' with similar motivation as DeAngelo.

What alerted me to this was his use of language during the Nicola Lynas abduction as well as behaviour during the abductions. He uses the term 'Police Surgeon' which is a term not in common usage in the general population in Australia nor something a criminal would say. A police officer however uses that sort language. Other than his tactical and forensic ability, he seemed to get most joy out of watching the media coverage of the case while in the presence of the victims.

As psychopaths often get involve in a continuing way, I looked at Police officers who had continued to involve themselves in the case despite not actually being involved in the investigation. The idea is that they would continue to receive gratification out of their misleading behaviour and making their colleagues look like idiots. I found one. Here is what I know.

He claims to have given evidence as the identity of the perpetrator to the investigation which is likely untrue.
He talks authoritatively on the Spectrum task force investigation but a close examination of his work history reveals that he left the Victorian police soon after the Nicola Lynas abduction and returned to the police once Spectrum Task force was shut down. He was never a member of the Spectrum task force.
There is an extremely good chance he would end up on the task force and would have been exposed to the victims and therefore identification by his voice. I surmised that this was a possible reason he left the police force.
There are other red flags that suggest he is psychopath and that he possibly lies to gain convictions.
There is also a possibility that he has used his position to destroy evidence in other cases.

In summary none of this is evidence or proof he was involved. It is best a theory based on my observations.

From my perspective, he requires closer scrutiny from an investigative sense and that's all. I can't reveal his name but have given readers this information so they can untangle the jigsaw if they wish. I have tried to contact investigators but unfortunately have received no replies. I really don't know where to go with this.

Recently the Hunters program revealed that there was DNA evidence in the Mr Cruel case. They interviewed a police officer whom remained de-identified who made the claim on the program. The investigators who were really on the Spectrum taskforce looked really surprised by this information. The thought crossed my mind that the secret police informant was the same officer that I had identified above. I approached the journalist confidentially but have yet to receive a response.

I hope this spurs the discussion.
 
  • #26
Looks interesting, from link..
''The Hunters is the first TV program to uncover DNA evidence that proves there were at least two offenders in the Mr Cruel cases.

As well as an interview with one of the victims, it also features former police investigators speaking publicly, some who are prepared to back up the multiple offender theory.''
''The Hunters: Mr Cruel premieres 7.30pm Monday on Channel 7 and 7plus''
I will note that the reactions of the two confirmed investigators in that programme was one of complete surprise to the DNA revelation. Look at my response on this forum on DeAngelo parallels to see my concern.

In terms of the multiple offender theory, I agree that Karmein Chan's abduction and murder has never really fitted the two abductions of Sharon Wills and Nicola Lynas. This is the first media programme to make the observation for something that has been likely for a very long time. I still think those two abductions are linked.
 
  • #27
Although I am new to this forum have had a great interest in this topic for a long time.

I agree with you that this person was Like Joseph DeAngelo. De Angelo was a police officer whose primary motivation was to show that he was 'superior' to his police colleagues. He primarily was not a sex offender. The spectrum task force in Victoria approached this case from a 'sex offender' perspective and failed to identify any convincing assailants. I actually think this is a 'police officer' with similar motivation as DeAngelo.

What alerted me to this was his use of language during the Nicola Lynas abduction as well as behaviour during the abductions. He uses the term 'Police Surgeon' which is a term not in common usage in the general population in Australia nor something a criminal would say. A police officer however uses that sort language. Other than his tactical and forensic ability, he seemed to get most joy out of watching the media coverage of the case while in the presence of the victims.

As psychopaths often get involve in a continuing way, I looked at Police officers who had continued to involve themselves in the case despite not actually being involved in the investigation. The idea is that they would continue to receive gratification out of their misleading behaviour and making their colleagues look like idiots. I found one. Here is what I know.

He claims to have given evidence as the identity of the perpetrator to the investigation which is likely untrue.
He talks authoritatively on the Spectrum task force investigation but a close examination of his work history reveals that he left the Victorian police soon after the Nicola Lynas abduction and returned to the police once Spectrum Task force was shut down. He was never a member of the Spectrum task force.
There is an extremely good chance he would end up on the task force and would have been exposed to the victims and therefore identification by his voice. I surmised that this was a possible reason he left the police force.
There are other red flags that suggest he is psychopath and that he possibly lies to gain convictions.
There is also a possibility that he has used his position to destroy evidence in other cases.

In summary none of this is evidence or proof he was involved. It is best a theory based on my observations.

From my perspective, he requires closer scrutiny from an investigative sense and that's all. I can't reveal his name but have given readers this information so they can untangle the jigsaw if they wish. I have tried to contact investigators but unfortunately have received no replies. I really don't know where to go with this.

Recently the Hunters program revealed that there was DNA evidence in the Mr Cruel case. They interviewed a police officer whom remained de-identified who made the claim on the program. The investigators who were really on the Spectrum taskforce looked really surprised by this information. The thought crossed my mind that the secret police informant was the same officer that I had identified above. I approached the journalist confidentially but have yet to receive a response.

I hope this spurs the discussion.
Have you ever looked into Beast of Jersey?

He was almost a carbon copy of Mr. Cruel's tactics.

Left red herrings such as cigarette butts (and did not smoke), not killing in MO as much, targeted children.

I've posted about it in depth before about their many comparisons and wonder if Mr. Cruel heard about Beast of Jersey somewhere along the line before he started his crimes. Beast was in prison when these crimes started but I have wondered if Mr. Cruel heard of him or read about him.

They are the only two cases that have such similarities in the way they operated (red herring fakes, children, not killing as much, masks)
 
  • #28
No I have not but will have a look.

No I think the 'beast of Jersey looks to be primarily a deviant sex offender. I think Mr Cruel is like Deangelo.
 
  • #29
Are there many dental practices of one sort or another near where the children either were abducted or dropped off?
Reminded somehow of a dental/medical assistant or a dentist, complete speculation, imo.
 
  • #30
Forensic technology links Mr Cruel suspect to Melbourne electrical industry


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/br...y/news-story/318bc9381837cde0682077c84be75ca0



Behind Paywall
Learning more about this case today. I grew up with a family of electricians. Sparkles and electrical linesmen use copper wire and electrical tape. Most employers “understand” when some goes home with tradies. No purchase to be tracked. Usually written off as excess use or lost.
 
  • #31
Learning more about this case today. I grew up with a family of electricians. Sparkles and electrical linesmen use copper wire and electrical tape. Most employers “understand” when some goes home with tradies. No purchase to be tracked. Usually written off as excess use or lost.
Sparkies not sparkles. Aussie name for electricians
 
  • #32
  • #33
Apparently one of the police named a man named Norman Lee as who he thinks did the attacks. He was killed in a police pursuit. The fact that he was careful in leaving forensic evidence makes me wonder if he either had a job as a cop or new cops.

 
  • #34
 
  • #35
This was the FBI Profile they gave Melbourne police on Mr. Cruel.

The FBI profile of "Mr. Cruel," an unidentified serial offender responsible for child sexual assaults and the murder of 13-year-old Karmein Chan in Melbourne, Australia (1987-1991), describes a highly meticulous and organized predator who went to extreme lengths to conceal his identity. The offender is believed to be a "chameleon" who appeared as a normal, trustworthy member of the community.
The Age
The Age +2



FBI Behavioral and Demographic Profile
  • Personality: Calm, calculating, and soft-spoken, with a high IQ. He was not impulsive, instead displaying meticulous planning, which suggests he is not a typical substance abuser.
  • Appearance/Age: Described as having a slim to medium build, a small pot belly, and fair or sandy hair, likely aged between 30 and 50 at the time of the offenses.
  • Lifestyle: A "chameleon" who likely appeared as a polite, quiet, and somewhat introverted "everyman" or good neighbor.
  • Occupation: Likely held steady employment, possibly in a technical or trade field given his forensic awareness.
  • Social Life: Likely has trouble forming social relationships or intimacy with women in his age group.
  • Residence: He is believed to have lived in a single-family residence with a garage or carport.
    The Age
    The Age +5






Modus Operandi & Criminal Behavior
  • Surveillance: He conducted detailed surveillance of victims, often stalking them before the abduction.
  • Forensic Awareness: He rarely left evidence, masked his face, and used "red herrings" to confuse police.
  • Abduction & Abuse: He would break into homes, threaten families with a knife or handgun, and abduct young girls, holding them for up to 50 hours.
  • Auditory Focus: The offender had a strong auditory sense, with victims reporting hearing planes, leading to the belief the holding location was near Melbourne Airport.
  • Obsession with Control: He was terrified of being caught and was obsessed with not being seen.
  • Post-Crime Behavior: The FBI profile suggests he would have exhibited signs of stress, such as changing alcohol consumption habits or taking a short-term interest in religion, after the crimes.
  • Evidence Collection: Experts believe he may have recorded his assaults, keeping photos or videos of his crimes, and continued to be involved with child pornography, possibly moving to online activities.
    The Age
    The Age +6







Key Behavioral Clues
  • Victim Interaction: He addressed victims using specific, perhaps archaic, terms like "missy," "worry wart," and "bozo".
  • Anomalous Behavior: He displayed "mother-like" care in bathing victims after sexual assaults, yet also showed extreme violence.
 

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