Australia Australia - Peter Falconio, 28, Barrow Creek, NT, 14 Jul 2001

[JLZ]

Re Falconio's blood and whether there was "spatter": this is taken from the trial judgement:

"these included a large pool of apparent blood staining on the bitumen near the edge of the road that had been covered with dirt and loose stones and measured about 60 centimetres by 40 centimetres, two smaller areas to the south of the main stain (that could, possibly, have been comprised of material scattered from the main area of staining) and some "dotting" to the west of the main stain" Murdoch v The Queen [2007] NTCCA 1 (10 January 2007)
paragraph 38 (f).

Correction: not trial judgement; judgement from first appeal.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Theres no link. It was on the 4 part documentary. It was all in the police reports and files. Witnesses even state that they saw falconio alive with the Ute days after the incident.

I think you have misread my query, which to reiterate, was when and where PF worked in an insurance company? And link to where this is stated?

As far as I know, and I have read several books, he never worked in an insurance company. He worked in UK in construction companies and odd jobs like pizza delivering. In Sydney he had worked for a furniture design company.

A friend he knew in UK who did work in one, stated later that PF questioned him intently about 'insurance cheaters' when the friend told him about something he had learned at work about investigating bogus insurance claims.

I have never seen it stated PF saying, to quote your words, "he knew how to fake a death and just dissapear" and I am sure if he had made such a statement it would have been widely reported in the numerous books and articles since, given what happened.

There was NOTHING in Murder In The Outback to that effect.

 

[sonz82]

@MsMiniSleuth watch the four part documentary, its called the lees and falconio mystery. I dont have a link to it as ive already mentioned.

 

[JLZ]

@MsMiniSleuth watch the four part documentary, its called the lees and falconio mystery. I dont have a link to it as ive already mentioned.

Isn't it the same series?--'Murder in the Outback' being the title and 'The Falconio and Lees Mystery' being the subtitle? It might help if you could recall in which of the four parts you heard that PF worked in insurance and said that about faking death.

Looks like it isn't available until July (is that right?)

 

[sonz82]

Isn't it the same series?--'Murder in the Outback' being the title and 'The Falconio and Lees Mystery' being the subtitle? It might help if you could recall in which of the four parts you heard that PF worked in insurance and said that about faking death.

Looks like it isn't available until July (is that right?)

No, it started Sunday night and finished last night. I think it was 2 or 3, he mentioned to a friend in Sydney i think, that he knew how a person could just dissapear or something to that effect

 

[Littlegreenlady]

The way I see it, there are three options
1) BM did it
2) JL did it, or arranged for someone to do it
3)A third party did it, not pre planned by JL and she is a victim

For JL to identify BM it rules out 3, as if he really didn't do it and someone else did it, then she has no reason to identify him falsely. It only makes sense her IDing him if he really did it, or if she's hiding something else.

I honestly don't know what to think. It does worry me when they say JL didn't behave "normally". If a woman doesn't cry or get upset when a crime has taken place, they are judged more harshly IMHO. We don't automatically assume a male is guilty if he doesn't cry. Who can say how any of us would react if something like this happened?
On the other hand, the police are trained to interview suspects. They have spoken to many over the years. I feel their suspicions, that something is off when they are interviewing someone, is generally more believable than the general public because they have that exposure to more people in these situations.

 

[Funky funky]

We obviously aren’t allowed to post ‘rumours’ here but there is a strong belief that JM was known to JL and PF prior to the murder. Make of that what you will.

 

[Funky funky]

Duplicate post

 

[Mrs Marple]

What reasons would you suggest for that?

Well there are quite a few gaps in her story. Of course she was under a huge amount of stress so this is understandable. She might hav been under the influence of drugs or alcohol. She might have needed to deliberately leave things out that could have got her into trouble. But l don't think she was involved or colluded with BM.

 

[crazychris]

The thing that made me think that Joanne was lying was that when she was asked if she knew what happened to peter, she said no and nodded her head at the same time. Ive seen that happen many times, people who lie subconsciously reveal the truth.
A suspect in a boys dissapearance, when asked if he put the boy on a bus, he said yes but was shaking his head as he said it.

The Ute was found by police though?

 

[Mrs Marple]

I'm not sold on body language meaning what we think it means. I cross my arms when l'm cold. It doesn't mean l'm closed off or bored. It means l'm cold.

 

[Maximus54]

This is getting too bazaar.

Trucker who rescued Joanne Lees makes explosive claim about Falconio murder

But now, the truck driver who rescued Ms Lees has made a startling new claim.
Vince Millar told a British TV crew he had seen two men bundling a third, "jelly-like" man into a red car that same night.
"I'm pretty sure that bloke in the middle could very well have been Peter Falconio," he said.
Mr Millar claimed he had never shared that information before.
Trucker who rescued Joanne Lees makes explosive claim about Falconio murder

I think Vince's imagination is getting the better of him.

 

[DaveShu]

I'm not sold on body language meaning what we think it means. I cross my arms when l'm cold. It doesn't mean l'm closed off or bored. It means l'm cold.

Read "Spy The Lie" - but don't just read it, read it, read it again, make notes, read it again, make more notes, absorb what it says, then watch real live (not reconstructed) Police interviews and test what you learned against what you see to hone your skills.

I promise you, you will be amazed at how easy it is to detect lies once you know what you're looking for and have practiced.

It isn't easy because you have to both watch and listen and ideally analyse the words all simultaneously - and that isn't easy to do, we all naturally do one or the other, to do it all at once fries your brain - but it really does work.

Most body language by itself is guff, its the context that counts and how the body language *changes* in response to each question that counts.

Plus the words - it's not looking for 1 signal per question, it's looking for multiple signals per question, which means the chance of a "false negative" reduces drastically.

I promise you, it works.

 

[DaveShu]

With regards to Falconio (and I apologise for asking this when it might have been covered before - but to save myself eons of searching):

1) Is it correct that he had indeed taken out life insurance policies (on himself and/or Joanne Lees or anyone else) before or during visiting Australia?

2) If he did who was the beneficiary?

3) Were the policies paid out on?

4) If yes when? (what date)

5) Was there a delay in paying out?

6) If yes when was the delay and for how long?

7) If the policy/policies weren't paid out on, when was that decision made to the beneficiary?

Thanks.

I'll post my thinking if I can get definitive answers to the above, since without the above it's meaningless conjecture.

I know what I think the answers should be.

 

[MookiMoo]

While watching the documentary series on the "Falconio and Lees" case here in the UK it struck me as odd that there appeared to be no references made as to the stature of the alleged assailant. The man accused of the crime Bradley Murdoch was at least 6f 5in and from seeing him on screen he was also well built. If someone of that stature were to attack you you'd be sure to remember that as he loomed over you. I just find it odd that this didn't appear to be relevant or even mentioned.

Also, I am no expert in this but in the documentary we saw footage taken from a service station of a man entering and leaving the service station shop. But even to my amateur eyes I am of the opinion that the man shown was not Mr. Murdoch, he carried himself differently and had a totally different build and demeanour.

 

[Jartykarate]

While watching the documentary series on the "Falconio and Lees" case here in the UK it struck me as odd that there appeared to be no references made as to the stature of the alleged assailant. The man accused of the crime Bradley Murdoch was at least 6f 5in and from seeing him on screen he was also well built. If someone of that stature were to attack you you'd be sure to remember that as he loomed over you. I just find it odd that this didn't appear to be relevant or even mentioned.

Also, I am no expert in this but in the documentary we saw footage taken from a service station of a man entering and leaving the service station shop. But even to my amateur eyes I am of the opinion that the man shown was not Mr. Murdoch, he carried himself differently and had a totally different build and demeanour.

And the mystery guy from the Barrow Creek Roadhouse also admitted that that was likely to be him and his vehicle at the service station.

 

[Mrs Marple]

With regards to Falconio (and I apologise for asking this when it might have been covered before - but to save myself eons of searching):

1) Is it correct that he had indeed taken out life insurance policies (on himself and/or Joanne Lees or anyone else) before or during visiting Australia?

2) If he did who was the beneficiary?

3) Were the policies paid out on?

4) If yes when? (what date)

5) Was there a delay in paying out?

6) If yes when was the delay and for how long?

7) If the policy/policies weren't paid out on, when was that decision made to the beneficiary?

Thanks.

I'll post my thinking if I can get definitive answers to the above, since without the above it's meaningless conjecture.

I know what I think the answers should be.

Apparently although he asked some questions about life insurance there is no evidence that he took a policy out and certainly no one has disclosed receiving a payout in relation to his death.

 

[Dedalus]

Very intriguing case.

The conviction of Bradley Murdoch hinges on DNA evidence. There is nothing else that really stands up (the Alice Springs CCTV clip is very far from conclusive in my view).

In the days before DNA evidence, police would have to have relied on fingerprints. Would Murdoch’s fingerprints not be evident on the VW Kombi – particularly the key and the door handle? I haven’t found anything significant reported about prints.

Moreover, if he drove his ute away in a northerly direction at 8:00 pm (as seen by a witness), then why would he return? The Kombi seems to have been driven into the scrub within the next hour. Of course, if Murdoch didn’t drive it then who did?


Joanne Lees appears to have given a deliberately misleading description of the ‘murderer’ and his dog – both descriptions match a man and dog seen at other times. The part of her evidence about being forced into the back of the ute doesn’t stand up. However, some other parts of her account do (at least roughly) match those given by people in vehicles driving along the Stuart Highway.

Her reluctance to engage with the media and her messages/calls to ‘Steph’ are troubling, no matter what people say in her defence.


The great conundrum in this case is why a murderer would go to such lengths to remove a body and even cover up blood yet allow the sole witness to escape. There is an element of theatricality about the tape applied to Ms Lees – why tie a piece of tape around only one ankle and why tie another piece around her neck or hair? (Were these tested for DNA or prints?) Why apply manacles that allowed so much freedom of movement?

Over and above all this, what was the motive? The argument that Murdoch was paranoid about being followed by undercover cops tends to fall on the basis that he was following Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees (if indeed, it was him) and that their English accents would have been something of a giveaway.


The manacles being taken to prison to show Brad Murdoch sends out all the wrong messages. A good defence lawyer would immediately pounce on this and use it to question all other scientific evidence in the prosecution case. There’s the rub – can we be 100% sure Murdoch wasn’t framed? In that vein, does anyone know when the first reports emerged that DNA traces from a suspect had been found on the T-shirt and inside the VW?

 

[PatLaurel]

Very intriguing case.


The great conundrum in this case is why a murderer would go to such lengths to remove a body and even cover up blood yet allow the sole witness to escape. There is an element of theatricality about the tape applied to Ms Lees – why tie a piece of tape around only one ankle and why tie another piece around her neck or hair? (Were these tested for DNA or prints?) Why apply manacles that allowed so much freedom of movement?

SBM & BBM

This is exactly what makes me think everything was premeditated and staged. What was the purpose, i don't know! But, when i watch JL's body language and her fake tears, it makes me wonder if it is possible that a person can be so cold and selfish as to kill someone just to be famous and benefit from it? Just speculation on my end here...

JMO MOO SOME

 

[Vera_dci]

didnt lees say her and Peter smoked pot the night in question? Just a few random thoughts but could she or Peter have brought it from Murdoch or an associate which is how his dna was on her. Did she ask Murdoch to carry out a contract killing so she could set up a new life with her lover?? He refused so she pinned it on him.

I have a sinking feeling the police were happy to pin it on murdoch to solve two problems in one. He was a local drug dealer and menace to them.

She came across as a psychopath to me in the latest documentary. She appeared to like her new found fame improving her appearance drastically. I hope if she is involved it haunts her in her dreams but I feel she has no remorse.

I feel somewhat sorry for murdoch and I believe he is innocent and has been set up by the aussie police. Whilst lees walks away scot free.