Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[Black-Cat]

Okay, so this all makes more sense now. Thanks for the links.

It does sound as if Carol moved into the Pakenham property late last year then. 'Rental with option to buy' is what I think it is called. Possibly with settlement to happen when Carol received settlement from her divorce - which could have been one week before she went missing.

Hmmm ... does that put a potential angry suspect on the table?

IMO

Agree with this SA .... very angry ex potentially.... especially if they believe RH is moving in IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Or waiting on money from the sale of their previous property.

Yes that’s right, more likely the buyer wanting a delay if waiting on a financial settlement with husband IMO

 

[Estelle]

Carol first joined the CWA at Berry's Creek in 2001, having moved there "with her family" in 2000 - according to an article called "CWA's no cupcake affair" - this is from an article published in the Pakenham Gazette on March 25, 2013. Certainly sounds an amazing woman.

I find this quite interesting too.

2000: Carol moves to Berry's Creek with her family.

So what does that really mean? It states "with her family" so I assume CC lives with her family not to be near her family. This implies at the same address.

Is this the year she separated from her husband? I say this because parents don't usually move in with their adult children unless one of them is elderly or ill and left on their own after a death of their partner or separation/divorce.

Late 2019: Carol purchases her new home and moves in by herself to rent until the previous owners find another house or her property settlement is through.

2020 - March: Carol settles on her new home.

So did CC live with her family for the intervening nine years?
Did she marry someone else in the meantime?
I thought I read that CC had been separated for 2 years.

 

[SouthAussie]

I find this quite interesting too.

2000: Carol moves to Berry's Creek with her family.

So what does that really mean? It states "with her family" so I assume CC lives with her family not to be near her family. This implies at the same address.

Is this the year she separated from her husband? I say this because parents don't usually move in with their adult children unless one of them is elderly or ill and left on their own after a death of their partner or separation/divorce.

Late 2019: Carol purchases her new home and moves in by herself to rent until the previous owners find another house or her property settlement is through.

2020 - March: Carol settles on her new home.

So did CC live with her family for the intervening nine years?
Did she marry someone else in the meantime?
I thought I read that CC had been separated for 2 years.

I think her family could mean any segment of her family. Just her husband. Her husband and an adult child. Her husband, and an adult child with their small child. There are so many combinations of blended families.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think it was said it was several years.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html


"Ms Clay, a mother of three who separated from her partner several years ago, had for several months been living by herself in a new Pakenham home when she left with Mr Hill to go camping"

I thought I read that CC had been separated for 2 years.

 

[neesaki]

I still don't get something. If settled is the official term used in buying property.
If you only "settle" on a property the week before, how can you have already moved in before the settlement date.
Unless it was agreed upon by the sellers ?

And aha, separated for two years. Around the time that Russell retired maybe ?

It is confusing. Sounds like she lived in it several months, before settling. Doesn’t that mean settling on a price? Could she have been renting the property with an option to buy?

ETA : I just read after my post that @SouthAussie has already mentioned this same possibility. Apologies for being behind.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html

Quote from article:
“Ms Clay, a mother of three who separated from her partner several years ago, had for several months been living by herself in a new Pakenham home when she left with Mr Hill to go camping.

The property, built in the past year and close to Pakenham shops and train station, settled on March 12, seven days before the pair left.“

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if the plan for Carol and Russell to live together was being revisited ?

 

[Estelle]

I wonder if the plan for Carol and Russell to live together was being revisited ?

It appears to me that there are at least two people who also knew each other for over 30 years who could have contacted each other and colluded as they were not happy with the idea that RH and CC were planning to live together.

 

[JLZ]

It is confusing. Sounds like she lived in it several months, before settling. Doesn’t that mean settling on a price? Could she have been renting the property with an option to buy?

ETA : I just read after my post that @SouthAussie has already mentioned this same possibility. Apologies for being behind.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html

Quote from article:
“Ms Clay, a mother of three who separated from her partner several years ago, had for several months been living by herself in a new Pakenham home when she left with Mr Hill to go camping.

The property, built in the past year and close to Pakenham shops and train station, settled on March 12, seven days before the pair left.“

"Settling" is the final step in the sale when the money and ownership documents change hands. What happens is first contracts are signed for the transfer at an agreed price, a deposit is paid (often 10%) and a settlement date is negotiated (3 months down the track is about standard). If the buyer backs out or can't come up with the funds they lose their deposit (and don't get the house). Usually the buyer gets to move in immediately after settlement. It's risky for the seller to have the buyer move in much before settlement, even if it's convenient for both, in case the sale doesn't go through and then the buyer has no money to back-pay rent. But it's certainly something that can be negotiated, whether by a rental agreement up until settlement day, or if the buyer is trusted simply by taking the extra days' possession into account in the final price.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe the Police are playing "the long game"

 

[Kemug]

One of three things will happen:
1. We will wake up one morning to the headline "Bodies found near Wonnangatta Valley."
2. We will wake up one morning to the headline "Arrest/s made in Wonnangatta missing couple case."
3. Nothing.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

4 Missing couple found living isolated life off the grid.

Sadly I doubt it though.

One of three things will happen:
1. We will wake up one morning to the headline "Bodies found near Wonnangatta Valley."
2. We will wake up one morning to the headline "Arrest/s made in Wonnangatta missing couple case."
3. Nothing.

 

[srper2]

My apologies if someone has already posted this:

Lattitude and Longitude of their camp site on Google maps: Lattitude: 37°11'12.53"S
Longitude: 146°48'40.98"E (may be a few degrees off as I put my stamp a little bit above the spot so I could see it!
I marked an initial perimeter of 5k's around the camp/Billabong/Wonnangatta Station area and no matter which way they might have walked/staggered/crawled, they would have come across a clear walkable/drivable track within 2k's at the most, which they could have followed downhill back to the valley, or if totally disoriented, in around 2.5 k's they would have found themselves out of the valley and on a road with occasional signs along the way. As there were a number of people camping in the area, if they had been calling for help, I think someone would have heard them as voices carry in places like that. Their mobiles weren't found and I am starting to assume that being a ham radio fan, RH probably also knew how to use his phone to find his position using the free satellite GPS systems if they were lost. Nothing illegal and no signs that there ever was anything/that something was moved was found by searchers. Unless abducted by aliens or some other party, or killed and their bodies hidden, it would have been hard work for both of them to become completely lost there and unlikely both of them became completely disabled at the same time. I don't believe robbery as nothing taken from vehicle/vehicle left. I can see why police are considering foul play.

Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

 

[srper2]

4 Missing couple found living isolated life off the grid.

Sadly I doubt it though.

I think if they wanted to live together in the high country they could easily arranged to do that, but didn't. Too far from their families and hobbies etc. Sadly I doubt that they have just gone off grid too.

 

[Kemug]

Originally I was very keen on the idea that they had staged their own disappearance. Especially after possible sightings of them at another campsite. But as time has gone by, I now have very little hope of that. If they were younger, maybe. But as people age, medication and then care start to play a bigger and bigger part in their lives. I think perhaps the only way for an elderly couple to disappear intentionally would be for them to have already set up alternate identities somewhere else, far far away.

 

[Catmommy]

And my hope is that is exactly what they did, set up alternative identities far far away. Older does not mean more stupid or unable to feel intense love. I hope these two were cagey and have beaten all the odds.

 

[they'll get you]

Number 5).

We hear of one distraught soul walking off into the bush to call it quits.
Their vehicles are found locked up near the walking trail and they go in sometimes never to be seen again.

Could this have happened with these two but the only difference is Russell didn’t want anyone else to enjoy his beloved equipment so he destroyed it.
Search for missing judge in Brisbane bushland

When hear police say they do not believe their disappearance was not suspicious that’s when there’s an underlying reason.

 

[Kemug]

Re the possible sightings at another campsite - I don't remember where - a day or two after their disappearance. Did we ever find out any more about that? I for one would really like proof of who that couple actually were.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Re the possible sightings at another campsite - I don't remember where - a day or two after their disappearance. Did we ever find out any more about that? I for one would really like proof of who that couple actually were.

Wasn’t her.
And if he left, he’d never leave his equipment.
So, no. From the beginning, several posters, including me, bet on foul play and the drone being a big part of the investigation. But, oh no, LE knew better. Right, Neesaki? And a few natives were like nope, we never have problems in the bush. Yeah, sure. Perfect country.
Whatever. They’re gone. If they’re recovered, it’ll be because some incarcerated jail bird is singing.