Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[IminSyd]

Im also still pondering. Another theory - First, Carol and Russel ran into misadventure while out walking as has been suggested.

Second, someone knew of their campsite location and had seen them flying the drone and decided to rob the campsite while they were away. The person/people tried to break into the back part of the truck using a blow torch, and that’s what set the tent on fire. The person/people grabbed what they could steal and ran.

The burned tent was discovered later.

 

[trujac]

Andieinsyd, Yes...so why can't investigators find RH and CC? Somehow, in spite of RH's physical disabilities--he and CC seem to have vanished in thin air. There seems to me to be four major factors in this case. 1) The campsite fire 2) RH's locked truck 3) RH's medical disabilities/preventing him from walking any distance 4) RH and CC haven't been found, and their personal identification/belongings were found in RH's locked truck.
Setting aside theft, intentional murder...what might have happened was a chain of events that ended in their death...eliminating that RH and CC walked a distance from their campsite...(RH couldn't walk a far distance), and assessing the campsite fire--it seems possible the fire ignited spontaneously after the campsite had been abandoned unintentionally for several hours. What is left in the way of an explanation as to what happened to RH and CC??

 

[JLZ]

Andieinsyd, Yes...so why can't investigators find RH and CC? Somehow, in spite of RH's physical disabilities--he and CC seem to have vanished in thin air. There seems to me to be four major factors in this case. 1) The campsite fire 2) RH's locked truck 3) RH's medical disabilities/preventing him from walking any distance 4) RH and CC haven't been found, and their personal identification/belongings were found in RH's locked truck.
Setting aside theft, intentional murder...what might have happened was a chain of events that ended in their death...eliminating that RH and CC walked a distance from their campsite...(RH couldn't walk a far distance), and assessing the campsite fire--it seems possible the fire ignited spontaneously after the campsite had been abandoned unintentionally for several hours. What is left in the way of an explanation as to what happened to RH and CC??

Russell's health seems to get worse at every mention. What is this based on, quote and link? He may well have had medical issues that required management at his age. I don't remember reading that he was medically unable to walk any distance, just that his usual practice was not to walk far from his campsite. That he was making the drive and pitching a tent suggests that he was in fairly good health, it's certainly beyond my fitness capabilities, and yet I can walk for miles.

 

[Loxoli]

I’d like some more detail about Russell’s ability to walk far too. Not being able to walk far could mean 500m to someone, but 5km to someone else.

Another theory could be that Russell lost his drone but couldn’t physically go and retrieve it. So Carol decided to go looking because she was in better health, most likely without Russell’s permission. She could have ran into any sort of trouble (witnessed something and was murdered, got lost, misadventure) while out. Maybe he was in the middle of cooking something or had a fire lit, and realised she went after the drone (she may have said she was going for a short walk or to look at something close by). He panicked and left the fire to look for her, ignoring his health issues. Then he ran into some sort of trouble too, possibly related to his health issues because he walked too far. Another possibility is that he was murdered after running into the same person/people who murdered Carol.

Not a likely theory, I know, but it could explain the fire and the disappearance.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't recall it being mentioned that Russell was disabled or have I missed something ?
And as for how far Russell could walk, plenty of people on heart medication can live quite active lives and could actually walk a fair distance.

Yes that's right, no one said he couldn't walk far, just that he wouldn't have walked too far away from his camp.

 

[trujac]

There are numerous news articles, ham radio newsletters that discuss RH's heart and skin health problems and that he was taking several medications...several articles stated RH did not walk far from from his campsite. Here's one of the first articles published..."In relation to the lack of contact, their age and medical issues around Mr Hill, we have some concerns for their welfare." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-30/missing-couple-victoria-high-country/12101086;
As the timeline and investigation lengthen in efforts to find RH and CC, the news articles developed more focused details on the couple offered by family, friends, and the lead detective. RH's medical conditions were elaborated on, as well his disinclination/inability to walk far from his campsite because of his health.
As a side note, in this early article re: the fire: "They are also investigating who lit the fire at the campsite and who extinguished it." Mystery deepens over missing pair as campsite found burnt out with working vehicle
In closing, I would suggest anyone interested in piecing together the extensive published information on this case to read through the RH/CC threads here on WS from the beginning--several WS members posted nearly every article, video, etc. from the get go on this case, as investigators and news media sought to find evidence and determine what happened to RH and CC. There is a wealth of information available on this case right here on the previous RH/CC WS threads.

 

[bearbear]

what if their murder was planned, person/s knew their usual camping spot, they were killed in their sleep, bodies wrapped up and put in a vehicle to be disposed of elsewhere, tent burnt to destroy evidence, fire controlled so as not to damage rc's vehicle, there are lots of reasons to want someone dead other than financial gain?

 

[trujac]

I’d like some more detail about Russell’s ability to walk far too. Not being able to walk far could mean 500m to someone, but 5km to someone else.

Another theory could be that Russell lost his drone but couldn’t physically go and retrieve it. So Carol decided to go looking because she was in better health, most likely without Russell’s permission. She could have ran into any sort of trouble (witnessed something and was murdered, got lost, misadventure) while out. Maybe he was in the middle of cooking something or had a fire lit, and realised she went after the drone (she may have said she was going for a short walk or to look at something close by). He panicked and left the fire to look for her, ignoring his health issues. Then he ran into some sort of trouble too, possibly related to his health issues because he walked too far. Another possibility is that he was murdered after running into the same person/people who murdered Carol.

Not a likely theory, I know, but it could explain the fire and the disappearance.

Thank you for those ideas! I agree, something happened, and it set off a chain of events. It could be as you suggest, a minor incident evolved into a catastrophic consequence, and the disappearance and death of both RH and CC.

 

[trujac]

what if their murder was planned, person/s knew their usual camping spot, they were killed in their sleep, bodies wrapped up and put in a vehicle to be disposed of elsewhere, tent burnt to destroy evidence, fire controlled so as not to damage rc's vehicle, there are lots of reasons to want someone dead other than financial gain?

My only question would be why didn't they take down the canopy before starting the fire? The pile of items in the fire rumble, and the scorch marks on the truck look like a fast moving fire happened--if someone started the fire I would think they would have gathered up everything into a pile. To start the fire and let it travel on/around the tent canopy up to the truck seems odd to me--it looks more like an extremely hot fire happened spontaneously--ripped through the tent burning everything in proximity to it--through the canopy to scorching the truck. The only strange thing I see in the burnt out campsite pictures is what appears to be the chairs and table heaped onto the fire as if thrown there--they don't looked like they initially burned upright somewhere.

 

[trujac]

Russell's health seems to get worse at every mention. What is this based on, quote and link? He may well have had medical issues that required management at his age. I don't remember reading that he was medically unable to walk any distance, just that his usual practice was not to walk far from his campsite. That he was making the drive and pitching a tent suggests that he was in fairly good health, it's certainly beyond my fitness capabilities, and yet I can walk for miles.

Yes, as you point out, everyone has different physical capabilities, e.g., some physical tasks are easy, while other tasks or forms of exercise present a challenge depending on age, disabilities, medication consumption, etc. IMO, setting up a campsite and driving might not have stressed RH's heart the same way walking for an extended distance might have. Had RH been taking Beta Blockers for his heart condition, the side effects from his medications (fatigue, dizziness, and weakness) could have also impacted his long distance walking capabilities, but not overwhelmed him while moving around, carrying and setting up things in a small area of activity where he could sit down frequently and rest if he needed to.

 

[AmandaSkis]

I wish we knew if RH planned to be with CC openly, as in leaving his marriage. If CC allegedly divorced her husband to be with RH, was he planning to reciprocate?

 

[Clair Louise]

I wish we knew if RH planned to be with CC openly, as in leaving his marriage. If CC allegedly divorced her husband to be with RH, was he planning to reciprocate?

Speaking of that, where is CC's ex?

 

[SouthAussie]

Speaking of that, where is CC's ex?

I wish we knew how long ago Carol divorced him. If the assets were fairly recently split - so then Carol bought her new place.
I imagine that the police are investigating various angles like this one.

 

[JLZ]

There are numerous news articles, ham radio newsletters that discuss RH's heart and skin health problems and that he was taking several medications...several articles stated RH did not walk far from from his campsite. Here's one of the first articles published..."In relation to the lack of contact, their age and medical issues around Mr Hill, we have some concerns for their welfare." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-30/missing-couple-victoria-high-country/12101086;
As the timeline and investigation lengthen in efforts to find RH and CC, the news articles developed more focused details on the couple offered by family, friends, and the lead detective. RH's medical conditions were elaborated on, as well his disinclination/inability to walk far from his campsite because of his health.
As a side note, in this early article re: the fire: "They are also investigating who lit the fire at the campsite and who extinguished it." Mystery deepens over missing pair as campsite found burnt out with working vehicle
In closing, I would suggest anyone interested in piecing together the extensive published information on this case to read through the RH/CC threads here on WS from the beginning--several WS members posted nearly every article, video, etc. from the get go on this case, as investigators and news media sought to find evidence and determine what happened to RH and CC. There is a wealth of information available on this case right here on the previous RH/CC WS threads.

I accept that Russell had heart and skin conditions, and that they were an added reason to worry when he'd not returned from his trip on schedule and had been out of contact for over a week, uncharacteristically. You haven't offered any support for your repeated claim that Russell was disabled in terms of walking. His preferred practice when camping alone with Carol may have been different to that observed in other company. I imagine it would be a buzz to show her the place, and perhaps in his excitement he forgot that he'd aged and weakened since his working days.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I accept that Russell had heart and skin conditions, and that they were an added reason to worry when he'd not returned from his trip on schedule and had been out of contact for over a week, uncharacteristically. You haven't offered any support for your repeated claim that Russell was disabled in terms of walking. His preferred practice when camping alone with Carol may have been different to that observed in other company. I imagine it would be a buzz to show her the place, and perhaps in his excitement he forgot that he'd aged and weakened since his working days.

Meh, just scroll and roll past contrariness. Not worth your time or energy to continue a groundless debate.

 

[trujac]

I accept that Russell had heart and skin conditions, and that they were an added reason to worry when he'd not returned from his trip on schedule and had been out of contact for over a week, uncharacteristically. You haven't offered any support for your repeated claim that Russell was disabled in terms of walking. His preferred practice when camping alone with Carol may have been different to that observed in other company. I imagine it would be a buzz to show her the place, and perhaps in his excitement he forgot that he'd aged and weakened since his working days.

There's no debate here...I welcome people challenging my opinions. I would like to clarify a few things. IMO, based on reading numerous articles on this case that stated RH had several medical conditions and family, friends, and investigators were concerned for his welfare--and that he did not venture far from his campsite, I inferred the reason he did not walk any great distance from his campsite was because of his age and medical conditions...RE: using the term "disabled" to describe RH...is not meant that he wasn't able bodied in many activities...just that he had limitations in walking long distances. Hope that clears things up.

 

[trujac]

Meh, just scroll and roll past contrariness. Not worth your time or energy to continue a groundless debate.

Great advice...everyone on WS is granted a voice and space to express their opinion on a case...leaving room for those who agree or don't agree to express their opinion too...or to simply not respond.

 

[JLZ]

There's no debate here...I welcome people challenging my opinions. I would like to clarify a few things. IMO, based on reading numerous articles on this case that stated RH had several medical conditions and family, friends, and investigators were concerned for his welfare--and that he did not venture far from his campsite, I inferred the reason he did not walk any great distance from his campsite was because of his age and medical conditions...RE: using the term "disabled" to describe RH...is not meant that he wasn't able bodied in many activities...just that he had limitations in walking long distances. Hope that clears things up.

Thank you. As I see it, what's at issue is whether he could have walked far enough not to have been found by the searchers. I'm not sure where exactly they searched, but I am taking it that they covered the several square kilometres of open flat land along the river. Searching of bushy mountainous areas, however close by, would have been more difficult.

 

[trujac]

Thank you. As I see it, what's at issue is whether he could have walked far enough not to have been found by the searchers. I'm not sure where exactly they searched, but I am taking it that they covered the several square kilometres of open flat land along the river. Searching of bushy mountainous areas, however close by, would have been more difficult.

yes, I read they searched extensively a 2 mile radius from RH/CC's tent. I think a more recent article said another search is being planned. Yes, the terrain does looks very difficult to search--I wonder if they tried searching at night with a Bell UH-1 Iroquois helicopter?

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you. As I see it, what's at issue is whether he could have walked far enough not to have been found by the searchers. I'm not sure where exactly they searched, but I am taking it that they covered the several square kilometres of open flat land along the river. Searching of bushy mountainous areas, however close by, would have been more difficult.

They searched rugged terrain also. Admittedly, Russell and Carol could have been missed if well-hidden by someone very familiar with the area. Or if they have been 'destroyed'. Though dogs were out searching as well.
For some reason, the police think the couple was removed from the area. Perhaps that reason is not because they couldn't find them in their searches?


"The search will be conducted within the previous search area but will concentrate on some of the more rugged terrain in the region" Victoria Police.
ABC Gippsland

The search will continue today at the Wonnangatta camping ground where Russell’s car was located on 27 March.
Local police, Police Air Wing, Dog Squad and Search and Rescue are being assisted by SES, Parks Victoria and the Mounted Cattleman’s Association of Victoria.
Police search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay continues

Police are now said to be investigating whether the companions were ambushed as they slept inside their tent, reports the Herald Sun.
Victoria Police spent more than 30 days searching the valley, however they were unable to find any trace of either Russell or Carol.
Russell Hill and Carol Clay: New twist in case of missing campers

Specialist officers and rescue teams have combed the site and dense terrain.
Helicopters were also used to search for the missing pair.
Foul play feared in missing campers mystery