Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[they'll get you]

Phone records would show calls/texts to and from phones. That could be the holdup.

 

[JLZ]

Could his radio contact people or them able to contact him and I imagine an experienced camper could have a Telstra phone that works rural converage/long distances from any towers.

O/T but when we were (able) to cruise my bro who had a Testra phone contacted shore 100's of Kilometres off shore whereas my Optus only worked when we were through Sydney heads.
Getting the right gear for tough-as-nails rural coverage

Tentatively, I think the issue is what's in the way of the signal, not just the distance for it to travel. Mountains covered with trees. Get to a high point and potentially you can communicate to the tower at Mt Buller. (Which might even have been a reason for them to walk away from the campsite . . . up the hill on the north side of the river, for example, perhaps.)

 

[they'll get you]

Tentatively, I think the issue is what's in the way of the signal, not just the distance for it to travel. Mountains covered with trees. Get to a high point and potentially you can communicate to the tower at Mt Buller. (Which might even have been a reason for them to walk away from the campsite . . . up the hill on the north side of the river, for example, perhaps.)

The car was driveable. This is where it gets confusing.

 

[Kemug]

Yes, the driveable vehicle is quite a puzzle (well, isn't everything in this case?) All we know is that Russell and Carol didn't drive it away. Which means one of two things: 1) they left the valley some other way, or 2) they're still there. Or, I suppose 3) they did drive it away, and someone else put it back.

 

[SouthAussie]

I noticed in the video in this link that the DI Stamper says that Missing Persons is working with detectives in Sale.

Why would that be? Because Sale is the closest town that would have detectives?

It is the first time I have listened to this video.

Just some snippets:
"With the likelihood that Russell and Carol wouldn't have gone on a bushwalk or hike away from the camp, we would have assumed that the two people would have been found"
Last physical sighting of Russell and Carol was when he picked her up at 7:30am at Carol's Packenham home.
Via tracking of their mobile phones, they now know they took the route through Hayfield, which then takes you to Lacola/Lacola North, then through Howitt Plains, and on to the Zeka Spur track, and onto Wonnangatta Valley.
Mobile communications start getting "pretty scratchy" around Lacola.

They are looking for more CCTV, residential/business/dashcam footage of Russell's vehicle.

If anyone is worried that they shouldn't have been out due to covid restrictions, don't worry about that, that is not the focus, the focus is on finding out what has happened to Russell and Carol and get answers.

Police turn to overseas expert over missing Victorian campers mystery

 

[SouthAussie]

Map of the route that police have determined that Russell and Carol took:



خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[MissUnderstood]

I don’t think there is a third party involved here. I feel they had an accident while out on a walk or using drone. They may have set out thinking they would not be long and left something cooking or water boiling back at camp and fire was accidental. One is injured, other leaves to get help, that person is lost now, both don’t return. It must be hard for family, as there are so many unanswered questions. If this was done by someone else why leave the car and other valuables? If this was a murder suicide why set a fire and then go somewhere else to not be found?
MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t think there is a third party involved here. I feel they had an accident while out on a walk or using drone. They may have set out thinking they would not be long and left something cooking or water boiling back at camp and fire was accidental. One is injured, other leaves to get help, that person is lost now, both don’t return. It must be hard for family, as there are so many unanswered questions. If this was done by someone else why leave the car and other valuables? If this was a murder suicide why set a fire and then go somewhere else to not be found?
MOO

I think they want dashcam footage/CCTV of Russell's vehicle to see if anyone (or who) might have been following them.

I can't think of any other reason for them wanting that footage.

I think the police must know things that we don't know.
Also, maybe the disappearance is not about theft ... so the vehicle and valuables were insignificant.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe people are worried that they were out of the areas they were supposed to stick to. Even though the police have said they're not concerned about that.
Some who were in the area might be worried about a big fine if they come forward.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe people are worried that they were out of the areas they were supposed to stick to. Even though the police have said they're not concerned about that.
Some who were in the area might be worried about a big fine if they come forward.

It does sound as if police have spoken with some people who were in the area ... DI Stamper said something about "if we haven't talked to you already". Probably one of the reason he knows people from 5 states were in the area. Maybe due to the mobile traffic on the tower(s) as well.

 

[GregtheGrand]

Just found this forum. Seems extremely interesting. Will check out some mainstream reports and see what I think may have happened and is plausible.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh yes of course, people's phones pinging the towers.
I wonder if they do have any CCTV of traffic heading that way. In the more populated areas I mean.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Welcome GregtheGrand!

 

[SouthAussie]

I have to say that Button Man - or whoever it was that Russell had that run-in with - isn't off my radar yet.

Perhaps the same person who took that photo of a camper while they were sleeping.

Someone like Button Man would have little probem with killing live 'things'. Carving buttons out of antlers would mean they are accustomed to killing. And likely without a gun, unless they had money for ammo, which I doubt.

I have sometimes wondered if Russell was killed, and Carol is still alive and trapped with a person like Button Man.

IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yep Button Man isn't off mine either.
Whoever took the photo may have been trying to steal the camera or could it be possible that the camera was in a position where it fell and clicked the button, ie no one came in and took a photo.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think I feel like being silly for a moment. Maybe a Yowie took the photo

 

[SouthAussie]

I think I feel like being silly for a moment. Maybe a Yowie took the photo

Lol.

I think a person likely took the photo. The camper would most probably have been able to tell if it was a wonky photo as if the camera had fallen and accidently went off. Most buttons for snapping shots on a camera are small and in a pretty protected place so they don't accidently get pushed. IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yep there'd be half a face or top of the head if a person didn't take the photo.

 

[they'll get you]

This is certainly one of the most curious cases on WS.

Occam's razor is the most simpler explanation is the one more likely to be correct

BUT what is the most simplest explanation?

 

[3llecia]

Carving buttons out of antlers would mean they are accustomed to killing. And likely without a gun, unless they had money for ammo, which I doubt.

If I may put this to the forum: why on earth is he making buttons? I’m open to all ideas, we all have hobbies... skills...

Are we talking buttons for clothes? Or is this more figurative buttons..? Small wittled discs with no function? Are they collected? Or left places? Is making buttons just a habit to pass idle time? A mark to remember deer hunts/kills? Like a trophy?

Without being local, I wish to be careful not to fall into believing a “boogeyman” theory. Not everyone fits typical communities and it’s not illegal to be self-sufficient or off the grid. But I’d really like some local insight.