Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[trujac]

I'm not sure why so many think that Russell's wife must have known about his affair for a long time. Maybe she didn't. Maybe she had started to suspect. And then maybe she made up her mind to find out for sure.

The ends and outs of RH and CC's intimate family relationships somehow reminds me of the 1969 comedy movie...Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice. It seems like RH and CC and their spouses were influenced by the liberal 1960s free love culture.
Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice - Wikipedia

 

[they'll get you]

I really think it would be possible to kill and dispose of two 70 year olds especially if the hate fuelled adrenaline is up on high.
They are sitting ducks right there in a fabric walled tent wrapped tightly in ‘a’ sleeping bag.
The murderer would’ve had a ‘sturdy’ vehicle to get there.
Hitch them and their sleeping bags and drag them somewhere else.
If a sleeping bag is waterproof then it wouldn’t allow blood to leak now would it.

 

[srper2]

Just going to bump this post for you. Makes me wonder if Russell even had the chance to fly his drone.





And this ....

The other issue that casts doubt on this theory is the drone itself.
Russell had an app on his phone for the drone, but had not uploaded any footage to his account from that Wonnangatta trip.
Another theory is that if Russell’s drone went down in bushland, the pair might have got lost looking for it.
But police have not been able to find any flight path data from the trip.
While Inspector Stamper says that doesn’t mean a flight didn’t occur, it does mean if it did happen, it’s a flight that has also left no digital trace.
Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

If he was relying on mobile coverage to upload the data, he would not have been able to until he left the area and reached an area with coverage, so unless the drone is found nobody knows what happened with it. The same issue could have stopped him being able to use the app to find the drone if it did get lost.

 

[srper2]

Just going to bump this post for you. Makes me wonder if Russell even had the chance to fly his drone.





And this ....

The other issue that casts doubt on this theory is the drone itself.
Russell had an app on his phone for the drone, but had not uploaded any footage to his account from that Wonnangatta trip.
Another theory is that if Russell’s drone went down in bushland, the pair might have got lost looking for it.
But police have not been able to find any flight path data from the trip.
While Inspector Stamper says that doesn’t mean a flight didn’t occur, it does mean if it did happen, it’s a flight that has also left no digital trace.
Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

If he was relying on mobile coverage to upload the data, he would not have been able to until he left the area and reached an area with coverage, so unless the drone is found nobody knows what happened with it. The same issue could have stopped him being able to use the app to find the drone if it did get lost.

 

[trujac]

I don't recall that it has ever been said that Russell was skilled in outdoor survival ?

Below are some news articles that shed light on RH's camping/bushman and ham radio skills--along with a few relevant details concerning the timeline and the campsite fire.
It would seem to me anyone camping in the remote regions of a bush area for decades would have naturally acquired several survival skills--not to mention all the years RH worked as a professional logger in the area--having made the actual roads that he drove his truck on while camping in the Wonnangatta Valley. Several news articles, along with RH' friends commented on his fastidious camping practices, along with his well equipped four wheel drive Toyota Land Cruiser truck. Here are a few of them:
RH was an experienced bushman: Police to take another look at vehicle of missing camper | Daily Mail Online
We know that he had spent quite a bit of time up here and he was described to us as being quite meticulous when camping: Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers
Russell had some wires strung up in the tree and we were asking him what it was but he was using the ham radio,” he said. Radio amateur and friend missing in Victoria | Southgate Amateur Radio News
A spare set of keys was found hidden on the car, but it is believed Mr Hill took the main set with him. Missing camper's final conversation revealed: Best mate of married man who vanished with 'beauty queen' reveals chilling details of their last phone call - and how he KNOWS his friend was attacked
Mr Hill is an experienced bushman who worked as a logger near the place he disappeared. Foul play feared in missing campers mystery
Police are now probing what happened in the 18 hours between Mr Hill making a chilling last radio call and their campsite being discovered abandoned the next day. https://anglenews.com/police-suspec...rance-of-campers-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/
Mr Hill’s white Toyota Landcruiser was found with minor fire damage at their burnt campsite near Dry River Creek Track in the valley on March 21, but an examination of the scene by arson chemists was inconclusive. Mr Hill, a seasoned camper, wasn’t known to wander too far from where he set up his campsite. He is known to spend long periods in a remote bush camp. investigators.ttps://anglenews.com/police-suspect-foul-play-involved-in-the-disappearance-of-campers-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/

 

[they'll get you]

best-mate-of-married-man-who-vanished-with-beauty-queen-reveals-chilling-details-of-their-last-phone-call-and-how-he-KNOWS-his-friend-was-attacked/ar-BB15YIay

The word ‘KNOWS’ is when you KNOW something because it’s been told to you by someone with knowledge or you’ve seen it first hand yourself.
IMO he’s guessing on a strong hunch.

 

[Kemug]

I see that "an examination of the scene by arson chemists was inconclusive". That may not mean that they have no idea how the fire started - they probably do have some ideas, or favourite theories. Just a thought.

 

[trujac]

I see that "an examination of the scene by arson chemists was inconclusive". That may not mean that they have no idea how the fire started - they probably do have some ideas, or favourite theories. Just a thought.

There are other articles stating that no accelerant was found at the campsite fire.

 

[they'll get you]

He is known to spend long periods in a remote bush camp. investigators.ttps://anglenews.com/police-suspect-foul-play-involved-in-the-disappearance-of-campers-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/

Is that what Russell wanted them to believe? I recon he was nesting at Carol’s.

 

[trujac]

I really think it would be possible to kill and dispose of two 70 year olds especially if the hate fuelled adrenaline is up on high.
They are sitting ducks right there in a fabric walled tent wrapped tightly in ‘a’ sleeping bag.
The murderer would’ve had a ‘sturdy’ vehicle to get there.
Hitch them and their sleeping bags and drag them somewhere else.
If a sleeping bag is waterproof then it wouldn’t allow blood to leak now would it.

Lots of blood splatter in that scenario--contained or not. A professional hit might have been able to execute a faultless and clean massacre with no struggle or dna evidence as you suggest. However, rolling up bodies in sleeping bags, bed sheets, and carpets usually leaves some sort of evidence for crime analysis, imo.

 

[trujac]

He is known to spend long periods in a remote bush camp. investigators.ttps://anglenews.com/police-suspect-foul-play-involved-in-the-disappearance-of-campers-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/

Is that what Russell wanted them to believe? I recon he was nesting at Carol’s.
View attachment 265723

You are kidding, right???

 

[trujac]

At the moment, I (personally) am more interested in delving into the possibilities of why the police think foul play is involved.

I trust the police instinct. And we have all seen their methodology in the many cases we have followed here. So I am finding it interesting to explore those options.

We know the police have had drones up, dogs out, people searching high and low for Russell and Carol for more than 30 days. With no luck.

We know they plan to go back and do more searching. If Russell and Carol are lost, that is all that can be done.

But as of mid-June the police were prepared to divulge to the media that they think foul play is involved.

Anything is possible, of course. But for some reason, maybe several reasons, the police are leaning toward foul play ... after all of this time of investigating.

The mysterious disappearance of a married man and his female friend on a secret camping trip has taken a dark twist with police revealing the pair were likely victims of ‘foul play’.
Police suspect foul play involved in the disappearance of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay | | Express Digest

IMO, LE's idea that foul play may be involved is their default go to for more ideas when they have exhausted the initial visual and chemical analysis of a missing person(s) last known whereabouts and their search efforts have provided no answers.

 

[they'll get you]

You are kidding, right???

Nope.
In fact I recon they were picked up by a chopper and taken to Lord Howe Island.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

A penny for your thoughts mom?

Police and searchers have had months to locate their bodies. Disregarding the tragic hung up in a tree example, some trace of them should have been found by now. What else can police do but come up with an alternative to getting lost? Foul play. All the early comments in AU news were leaning towards foul play. But now, LE has to say something bc lost is not the answer.
Russell’s friend mentioned something sinister. Remember they knew each other for 15 years. The last transmission was not clear. As I recall, Russell cut it off early bc of a bad connection. Maybe the interference was man made and in close proximity to the campsite? So his 15 year friend knew more details about the couple and knew about transmitting over ham radios. His guts are telling him there’s a problem. I would presume he has an inkling as to what may have transpired.
But as for Carol having more than one suitor, she very well may have had more than one. But I doubt a woman who keeps her self in such high regard, would go off on camping trips with one man repeatedly, a married one, too, if she was considering any others as potential mates. Her reputation would be tarnished.
His friend has suspicions. Strong ones but perhaps police won’t consider them bc no one has proof of anything. And he cannot or will not reveal his thoughts. If it was a crime of passion, he’s safe. If it was a crime committed by outlaws, his life could be in danger. The reality is the he cannot be protected by LE from criminals.
Russell and Carol have camped numerous times and returned safely. Odds are foul play was involved. It’s numbers. Statistics, if you will. What are the chances that they set up camp, enjoyed time together and then never returned? What was different this trip? The drone? Anything else? Two options: the drone. Or foul play. No trace of a drone, bodies, clothes, phones, nothing of theirs was ever located. Two people’s things. Double the chances for discovery of a personal item. Now where does that leave me? Back full circle. Foul play with the drone playing some big part in the disappearance.

 

[trujac]

Nope.
In fact I recon they were picked up by a chopper and taken to Lord Howe Island.

There's lots of pictures of RH with his ham radio, hunting, and fishing buddies in Wonnangatta--it seems to be a popular hobby among RH and his friends...retirees spending quality time together in the bush.

 

[trujac]

Police and searchers have had months to locate their bodies. Disregarding the tragic hung up in a tree example, some trace of them should have been found by now. What else can police do but come up with an alternative to getting lost? Foul play. All the early comments in AU news were leaning towards foul play. But now, LE has to say something bc lost is not the answer.
Russell’s friend mentioned something sinister. Remember they knew each other for 15 years. The last transmission was not clear. As I recall, Russell cut it off early bc of a bad connection. Maybe the interference was man made and in close proximity to the campsite? So his 15 year friend knew more details about the couple and knew about transmitting over ham radios. His guts are telling him there’s a problem. I would presume he has an inkling as to what may have transpired.
But as for Carol having more than one suitor, she very well may have had more than one. But I doubt a woman who keeps her self in such high regard, would go off on camping trips with one man repeatedly, a married one, too, if she was considering any others as potential mates. Her reputation would be tarnished.
His friend has suspicions. Strong ones but perhaps police won’t consider them bc no one has proof of anything. And he cannot or will not reveal his thoughts. If it was a crime of passion, he’s safe. If it was a crime committed by outlaws, his life could be in danger. The reality is the he cannot be protected by LE from criminals.
Russell and Carol have camped numerous times and returned safely. Odds are foul play was involved. It’s numbers. Statistics, if you will. What are the chances that they set up camp, enjoyed time together and then never returned? What was different this trip? The drone? Anything else? Two options: the drone. Or foul play. No trace of a drone, bodies, clothes, phones, nothing of theirs was ever located. Two people’s things. Double the chances for discovery of a personal item. Now where does that leave me? Back full circle. Foul play with the drone playing some big part in the disappearance.

Lots of murder/foul play weight put on a 2000 dollar drone possibly missing in a very remote bush area--what are the chances that someone would kill two people for their 2000 dollar drone in the middle of nowhere?? That to me is like sticking a flea with a needle tip.

 

[they'll get you]

A couple is estranged, the husband is pissed that the Mrs has a boyfriend, she mysteriously goes missing, months, years pass and her body has never been found.

No blood splatter was found in the house or in the vehicles but yet he killed her inside the house and transported her in the vehicle.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-sharon-edwards-55-grafton-nsw-14-march-2015-arrest.274693/page-37#post-15541449

Then there’s Baden-Clay who murdered Allison in their home while the 3 children were inside asleep and eventually forensics found a drip of her blood behind the back seat. That was all.
[URL="https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/allison-baden-clay-of-australia.494/page-3"]Allison Baden-Clay of Australia[/URL]

A bloodless murder or a well cleaned murder scene.

And then there’s Borce Ristevski.....not a trace of blood was found inside the house and not a trace in the vehicle which transported her to her bush grave.

Actually the list goes on.

 

[trujac]

A couple is estranged, the husband is pissed that the Mrs has a boyfriend, she mysteriously goes missing, months, years pass and her body has never been found.

No blood splatter was found in the house or in the vehicles but yet he killed her inside the house and transported her in the vehicle.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/australia-sharon-edwards-55-grafton-nsw-14-march-2015-arrest.274693/page-37#post-15541449

Then there’s Baden-Clay who murdered Allison in their home while the 3 children were inside asleep and eventually forensics found a drip of her blood behind the back seat. That was all.
[URL="https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/allison-baden-clay-of-australia.494/page-3"]Allison Baden-Clay of Australia[/URL]

A bloodless murder or a well cleaned murder scene.

And then there’s Borce Ristevski.....not a trace of blood was found inside the house and not a trace in the vehicle which transported her to her bush grave.

Actually the list goes on.

There's always some evidence--just a matter of finding it.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Lots of murder/foul play weight put on a 2000 dollar drone possibly missing in a very remote bush area--what are the chances that someone would kill two people for their 2000 dollar drone in the middle of nowhere?? That to me is like sticking a flea with a needle tip.

They didn’t get killed for the drone. No one would drive 5 hours following a couple of old people for a drone. It’s what the drone discovered. Maybe on the trip before. Maybe that morning. Robbery gone wrong is possible but unlikely because of the location of the tent. Robbery is hit and run. Opportunity. Driving 5 hours is stalking, and I’m sure Russell and Carol
would notice someone following them.
Maybe they were double dating with another couple and things went wrong? But there’s no evidence of another couple. All roads come back to foul play. By strangers. They were “picked up” by someone else as being close by and disposed of. Located by another drone, perhaps.
They stumbled across something that they should have ignored.

 

[they'll get you]

There's always some evidence--just a matter of finding it.

Sometimes the cops know the murderer but need the body to lay the charges.
Is that what’s stopping them now?