Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[JLZ]

I have updated my post explaining, hope this helps! I am trying to keep my mind open to all possibilities, not rule anything out at this stage. Seeing their ruined camp site is very sad, as it seems they were going somewhere that held fond memories for RH and where they thought nobody would see them - and they would not risk embarrassing RH's wife, but this proved to be a deathly mistake.

Thank you. It would surprise me if there were hundreds of people camping in those several square kilometres adjoining Wonnangatta Station proper on the night Russell and Carol vanished. It's very remote and somewhat difficult of access. However, perhaps that's something I did read and didn't take in. There may have been more at Howitt Plains where they apparently camped the previous night; not quite so remote. But even if there were two hundred people near the station, say an average of three people per camp, maybe seventy campsites, it still isn't going to be at all crowded in an area that size. I suppose Russell might have left some equipment there from the week before--though I understood he was around the King Billies, not in the river valley--but it's improbable he made the long trip, maybe five hours each way, for that purpose of setting up a tent which would be a comparatively quick exercise. Remember too that he ended the transmission to his friend saying that he hadn't set up the site yet.

I hope I've understood you better this time.

 

[srper2]

I was disappointed that Google Earth only has images from a date before RH and CC disappeared.

 

[srper2]

Thank you. It would surprise me if there were hundreds of people camping in those several square kilometres adjoining Wonnangatta Station proper on the night Russell and Carol vanished. It's very remote and somewhat difficult of access. However, perhaps that's something I did read and didn't take in. There may have been more at Howitt Plains where they apparently camped the previous night; not quite so remote. But even if there were two hundred people near the station, say an average of three people per camp, maybe seventy campsites, it still isn't going to be at all crowded in an area that size. I suppose Russell might have left some equipment there from the week before--though I understood he was around the King Billies, not in the river valley--but it's improbable he made the long trip, maybe five hours each way, for that purpose of setting up a tent which would be a comparatively quick exercise. Remember too that he ended the transmission to his friend saying that he hadn't set up the site yet.

I hope I've understood you better this time.

There is a lot of previous discussion by others in the threads you might find helpful. IMO RH said he hadn't set up the site yet, but he also did not say he had someone else with him. I am keeping an open mind here. I am still considering that RH may have left a tent he set up while there a week before - MOO! In regard to the report of the number of people in the valley, the links have been posted previously. It seems a lot of people wanted to get away on the edge of lockdown back then:
"VicPol reported that there were hundreds of people camping in the area - "Over the past year, detectives have quietly been making steady progress, using sophisticated mobile phone data and other painstaking investigative methods to rule out hundreds of people who were in the Wonnangatta Valley when the pair vanished".
Police 'close' to cracking high profile missing persons case

 

[JLZ]

There is a lot of previous discussion by others in the threads you might find helpful. IMO RH said he hadn't set up the site yet, but he also did not say he had someone else with him. I am keeping an open mind here. I am still considering that RH may have left a tent he set up while there a week before - MOO! In regard to the report of the number of people in the valley, the links have been posted previously. It seems a lot of people wanted to get away on the edge of lockdown back then:
"VicPol reported that there were hundreds of people camping in the area - "Over the past year, detectives have quietly been making steady progress, using sophisticated mobile phone data and other painstaking investigative methods to rule out hundreds of people who were in the Wonnangatta Valley when the pair vanished".
Police 'close' to cracking high profile missing persons case

Is the BBM part of a quote? I can't find it. I'm thinking that being in the valley isn't the same as camping there.

Another thing I haven't quite figured out is whether the Wonnangatta Valley means that open area about the station or whether it extends further. Wonnangatta River is going to be in a valley all the way down, so is that also referred to as Wonnangatta Valley?

How would they use mobile phone data to identify who was in the station area when there's no mobile phone coverage? Perhaps they're looking at routes in and out? Perhaps some of those people weren't actually going to the station area at all?

 

[Kemug]

Something that has just come to mind is that RH could have had more than one woman on the side. I had always thought he went to Wonnangatta a week before his trip with CC to prepare a camp site, but now also wonder if he could have been on a romantic trip with another secret woman? Maybe one that CC and his mates did not know about. Where someone reported talking to RH a month before while camping at Pikes flat, but not talking to CC, was it even CC who had been with RH the month before? (sorry cannot download link, but channel 7 news on 25/5/2020) Missing Victorian Campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay Seen Camping Together Month Before Disappearance. Often people who are comfortable having affairs behind their spouses back will do it with more than one person.

Well, plenty of 78-year-olds with health problems might love to be able to do that . Not sure about Russell though.

 

[srper2]

Well, plenty of 78-year-olds with health problems might love to be able to do that . Not sure about Russell though.

Your own opinion of course! RH was 74 and it seems to me that that a lot of people didn't know a lot about RH (MOO)

 

[srper2]

Shame the 60 minutes show did not get more info. I don't recall them talking to RH's wife and they only talked to one friend. No talk with anyone apart from people involved in the search really. Did not really give any more info on him as a person at all.

 

[Kemug]

Your own opinion of course! RH was 74 and it seems to me that that a lot of people didn't know a lot about RH (MOO)

Whoops yes, you're right - 74! I heartily geopolize!
But on a more serious note, you're absolutely right that we know very little about Russell (or Carol). And why not? There must be so much to know - what he's done, where he's been, what he's really like, etc, etc. Privacy is all very well, but after someone being missing for more than a year, surely it's time to publish anything at all that might help find him (them)? Or if not "anything at all", surely a bit more.
And re yet another ladyfriend - I don't think Carol would have been happy about that either, let alone the wife!

 

[bearbear]

I was disappointed that Google Earth only has images from a date before RH and CC disappeared.

have you tried six maps, it often gives a clearer closer view
SIX Maps

 

[JLZ]

have you tried six maps, it often gives a clearer closer view
SIX Maps

I've only seen a Sixmaps for NSW. It would be great if there was something similar for other states.

 

[Puzzles]

Interesting thought, I agree that could be the case. Certainly there could be other secret aspects to RH's life, apart from CC, or secrets in CC's life, too - as is true in many non-stranger killings.

Makes me wonder how CC was positively identified as being his companion. Anyone recall?

BBM.

Below are two reported snippets of information that may help answer your interesting question, @Satchie, although IMO, neither positively identify CC as being his camping companion.


1. Reported usage of their phone data to track the route taken to the campsite:

"... Mr Hill picked Ms Clay up from her home in Pakenham on March 19. Using data from their phones, police have been able to track the route they took to the Wonnangatta Valley, however, once they reached the campsite the phone reception cut out..."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...pers-ask-for-public-help-20200422-p54m06.html


2. An alleged witness to RH picking up CC at her home:

. "... Russell Hill leaves his home in Drouin with plans to visit various campsites along the Dargo River. He is seen by neighbours picking up Carol Clay from her home in Pakenham at 7.30am. Phone tracking shows the pair travelled through Heyfield and Licola to get to Wonnangatta Valley..."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html

Doubtless, LE has obtained indisputable evidence to verify CC was with RH, other than these two events which, standing alone, could be argued as not proof at all.

 

[Satchie]

BBM.

Below are two reported snippets of information that may help answer your interesting question, @Satchie, although IMO, neither positively identify CC as being his camping companion.


1. Reported usage of their phone data to track the route taken to the campsite:

"... Mr Hill picked Ms Clay up from her home in Pakenham on March 19. Using data from their phones, police have been able to track the route they took to the Wonnangatta Valley, however, once they reached the campsite the phone reception cut out..."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...pers-ask-for-public-help-20200422-p54m06.html


2. An alleged witness to RH picking up CC at her home:

. "... Russell Hill leaves his home in Drouin with plans to visit various campsites along the Dargo River. He is seen by neighbours picking up Carol Clay from her home in Pakenham at 7.30am. Phone tracking shows the pair travelled through Heyfield and Licola to get to Wonnangatta Valley..."

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html

Doubtless, LE has obtained indisputable evidence to verify CC was with RH, other than these two events which, standing alone, could be argued as not proof at all.

Thanks, so likely they began with his phone and noticed it stopped at an address. Then some work to figure out why he stopped there, since it could have been for any number of reasons. Good thing people remembered seeing her leave with him.

 

[srper2]

have you tried six maps, it often gives a clearer closer view
SIX Maps

Drats, it only seems to show NSW, but will be great for searching NSW in the future!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

A lot of what we are talking about has been discussed previously.
Not that we can't discuss it again. The more we do, the more some new thought or idea might occur with our brainstorming.

I was thinking though for those who haven't been on the thread as long as those of us who have been following since the thread was started, that there is a lot they can learn by reading the threads from the beginning.

 

[Shadow@light]

I cannot get my head around this case.
I feel once everything comes together "Truth is going to be stranger than we think."
IMO the deserted campsite was a set up and a distraction. By who I don't know, but someone in their families or friends knows more/something, and they are not talking. IMO I am looking a the person who raised the alarm and knew about the affair or others who knew about the affair.
Or did they disappear to start a new life?
Or could had Carol Clay and Russell Hill have a arguement concerning their relationship and something bad happened in the heat of the moment.
But damnation it reminds me so much of a disappearance in late 1940's, my Grandparents told me about it as one of them lived in street in Brisbane in their younger days when it happened it was bizare.
Truth was stranger than fiction in that situation when it it was solved seven years later.
It had crossed my mind(I don't know if this had been discussed) due to Carol Clay legal situation, people knowing they were going etc after using the Ham Radio Russell says where they are going up to set camp which was odd due to time they had to set up camp before darkness. Toilet was not used etc but sleeping bags missing. But for that night went somewhere else...got a lift with someone.
Or could while trying to set up near darkness was getting too late, got another offer from a camper/hunters to join their campsite until they could continue set up in the morning hence the missing sleeping bags drone was taken along as person or person admired it there met with foul play.
I have done camping a few times, in 1991 we ( Myself and two friends) ran out of petrol on a way back from Victorian Mountains to Melbourne (it was wet weather), we got into a car with person on their way to camping we took a jerry can were driven to nearest Petrol station to fill it. It had been bad camping trip, washout the last night our tent collasped we were muddy etc my friend was not happy with her boyfriend, on the way back she saw a Motel had vacant rooms, she paid for two rooms (one night of Luxury for herself) I joined her( In the separate room, I could hear a hot shower calling my name,) so camper drove down with jerry can gave it to our friend still waiting at the car in the rain who later joined us.
I remember the guy saying, Campers help Campers out.
Maybe Russell and Carol thought the same. IMO

 

[Satchie]

I don't know how much one can rely on RH's statement that he hadn't set up camp yet. Just that, he was having to conceal that he had a companion with him. IMO one has to be quite guarded when concealing something, and it can be helpful to fabricate an imaginary circumstance, such as that he had just arrived alone, so as not to slip up and say 'we', when describing the true circumstances.

 

[JLZ]

I don't know how much one can rely on RH's statement that he hadn't set up camp yet. Just that, he was having to conceal that he had a companion with him. IMO one has to be quite guarded when concealing something, and it can be helpful to fabricate an imaginary circumstance, such as that he had just arrived alone, so as not to slip up and say 'we', when describing the true circumstances.

I don't think he had to conceal it. I think the friend knew generally about Carol. But it wasn't tactful to mention her on a public broadcast especially as his wife was or might have been listening.

 

[Intriguedbymissingpersons]

A few examples of altercations at campsites


Police charge man over stabbing at campground at Kyogle


Young man stabbed in morning attack; camping couple flee after lashing out with shovel - 3AW


Man, 60, murdered at remote Qld campsite - 9News


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...fter-wa-campsite-stabbing-20110220-1b0tl.html


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...tabbed-at-camping-ground-20090101-geap4k.html


* edit this was meant to be a reply/ quote from the previous page talking about people getting bent out of shape over campsites

 

[Satchie]

A few examples of altercations at campsites


Police charge man over stabbing at campground at Kyogle


Young man stabbed in morning attack; camping couple flee after lashing out with shovel - 3AW


Man, 60, murdered at remote Qld campsite - 9News


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...fter-wa-campsite-stabbing-20110220-1b0tl.html


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...tabbed-at-camping-ground-20090101-geap4k.html


* edit this was meant to be a reply/ quote from the previous page talking about people getting bent out of shape over campsites

There was a case in California where a man was shot dead in his tent, that he shared with two children, in a popular campground. You can imagine the speculation, it seemed so targetted. But it wasn't, there was someone hiding out in the bush in the area (sometimes coming and going), and it was a completely random shot and freakishly successful aim.

 

[SLouTh]

New twist in case of missing lovers Carol Clay and Russell Hill | Daily Mail Online
New free article here

Cadaver dogs, which specialise in locating human remains, were sent to the region over the past few days but failed to find any trace of the pair.