Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[TootsieFootsie]

Some interesting info here on the choice of plastic bags or paper bags in collecting evidence

Evidence Collection: Paper, Plastic, or ... ? - Lee Lofland

Paper or Plastic?

here’s a simple rule of thumb for deciding which type of evidence packaging—wet evidence goes in paper containers (wet evidence can degrade if placed inside plastic containers) and dry evidence goes in plastic. Items that could be cross-contaminated must be packaged separately. There’s a rule of thumb for other types of evidence, too, and here’s a handy list for the proper packaging of those items.

I wonder what the criteria is to using a plastic evidence bag as compared to a brown paper bag.

 

[SLouTh]

One of the articles said the shovels were found "on the roadside". I wouldn't have thought items flung a fair way down a hill would be described as "on the roadside". The article might be wrong.

Not sure if this helps clarify or not....???

Detectives found two shovels during the search just after midday, three hours into the renewed search for the missing pair.
Russell Hill, Carol Clay missing campers: Police find shovel at Mt Hotham | Herald Sun

2 possible scenarios...(neither of which, may be correct??)

If the searches started on the edge of the road, then 3 hours later would indicate the shovels in the bush were found a little distance into the bush away from the curbside...

Or

If they were searching the road between Point A and Point B for example, then they could have walking along the road for 3 hours from Point A before they found them?? Eg, they didn't know the exact point to search between Point A and Point B .. If that makes sense???

And added thought...
For the Det Inspector to say there could be traffic delays in keeping officers safe while searching, possibly they are searching roadside as well???

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Just thinking aloud but maybe the bodies are located somewhere down in the valley where the soil would be a lot easier to dig as opposed to on the mountain where I think it could be shale and very difficult to dig hole/s, especially large holes to fit human bodies.

That's something that really hit home when I was in Wonnangatta the other day - you wouldn't want to have to dig a very big hole!! Unless you're down in the valley/grasslands then you might have half a chance but thats allegedly all been searched thoroughly, I can't imagine the soil at Hotham is all that much different. Many of the roads through there (in and out of Won and the great alpine rd) are really steep sided, if you picked a bit without any trees in the way you could roll a Body off the edge and it would probably never be stumbled across accidentally, no digging required.

 

[Kemug]

Those paper bags look like Maccas bags to me!

 

[SouthAussie]

Has anyone paraphrased The Australian article about this yet? I have just had a quick read through the new posts.

I will paraphrase some important points here.

The information which resulted in detectives moving the search to this new area came from “multiple sources” and “accrued over time”.
Detective Acting Inspector Combridge said they could be 'one phone call away' from this matter being resolved.
Today's search will likely continue into Thursday.
They have been receiving an 'enormous amount of intel' since announcing about looking for a white dual cab ute.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

And added thought...
For the Det Inspector to say there could be traffic delays in keeping officers safe while searching, possibly they are searching roadside as well???

That, and there's not always much room to keep 2 lanes going through, with the police cars parked on the side.

 

[SouthAussie]

This is the police media report.

Police continue search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Hotham area

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Those paper bags look like Maccas bags to me!

As in you think they put the evidence in the maccas bags or the evidence IS the maccas bags? long way from a maccas! But I guess rogue maccas bags often hang around the car for a while LOL..

 

[SouthAussie]

I still feel that they know exactly who they are looking at for this disappearance, and probable murder, of Russell and Carol.
They have mentioned before about a possible accomplice, and now they have found two shovels.

When they released the info about a white dual cab ute, and the info came flooding in, they may even have traced the phone pings of suspect phones and were looking for confirmation that their suspect(s) were on the move that weekend.

It is possible that persons close to a suspect(s) are not being cooperative or sticking with some mutual alibi, so they have done a wide sweep for further info from anyone who would give it to them.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

I still feel that they know exactly who they are looking at for this disappearance, and probable murder, of Russell and Carol.
They have mentioned before about a possible accomplice, and now they have found two shovels.

When they released the info about a white dual cab ute, and the info came flooding in, they may even have traced the phone pings of suspect phones and were looking for confirmation that their suspect(s) were on the move that weekend.

It is possible that persons close to a suspect(s) are not being cooperative or sticking with some mutual alibi, so they have done a wide sweep for further info from anyone who would give it to them.

Thats what I think too - get the phone numbers that pinged either of the tracks going into won, and the phone list of ones that pinged up the great alpine road and compare the 2 lists? No doubt some randoms did go to both locations innocently but it can't be THAT many in both locations... can it? That's if it's different towers or whatever, I'm just guessing.

 

[Kemug]

As in you think they put the evidence in the maccas bags or the evidence IS the maccas bags? long way from a maccas! But I guess rogue maccas bags often hang around the car for a while LOL..

I actually wasn't thinkly very deeply about the bags, but I guess I think they could be evidence. But then they should have been put into another bag, shouldn't they? Whichever, I doubt the police pick up litter without good reason. Ouch, all this thinking hurts!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I take it that no unknown DNA was found at the camp site, on or in the vehicle or the belongings in the vehicle.

 

[SouthAussie]

I actually wasn't thinkly very deeply about the bags, but I guess I think they could be evidence. But then they should have been put into another bag, shouldn't they? Whichever, I doubt the police pick up litter without good reason. Ouch, all this thinking hurts!

We saw brown paper evidence bags being used in the Karen Ristevski case. When they were searching some fields. Possible that they use them for random litter, cigarette butts, bottles/cans that they can then test for DNA. Prove that someone was in that area.

 

[Kemug]

That sounds good to me.

 

[JLZ]

Not sure if this helps clarify or not....???

Detectives found two shovels during the search just after midday, three hours into the renewed search for the missing pair.
Russell Hill, Carol Clay missing campers: Police find shovel at Mt Hotham | Herald Sun

2 possible scenarios...(neither of which, may be correct??)

If the searches started on the edge of the road, then 3 hours later would indicate the shovels in the bush were found a little distance into the bush away from the curbside...

Or

If they were searching the road between Point A and Point B for example, then they could have walking along the road for 3 hours from Point A before they found them?? Eg, they didn't know the exact point to search between Point A and Point B .. If that makes sense???

And added thought...
For the Det Inspector to say there could be traffic delays in keeping officers safe while searching, possibly they are searching roadside as well???

Or, after three hours in the bush they went back to the vehicles for a break?

 

[JLZ]

We saw brown paper evidence bags being used in the Karen Ristevski case. When they were searching some fields. Possible that they use them for random litter, cigarette butts, bottles/cans that they can then test for DNA. Prove that someone was in that area.

They were searching wetlands, so wet evidence going into paper bags fits. But that's also when I started thinking paper bags were empty, or puffed with air.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Has anyone seen a pic of the 2nd shovel, or are they both white? Ive only seen pics of a white one, curious what the second one is., or if they're the same.

 

[bearbear]

the shovel i saw in the plastic bag looked pretty rusty, i guess if its been out in the elements for a year, wonder if they left fingerprints on the handle? may depend on whether it was a planned (use gloves) or unplanned?

 

[MissUnderstood]

Seems something or someone significant lead them to that place! Is someone talking? Could the drone have been found and data retrieved? I know it was stated it wasn’t the drone they are looking for, but could they just be saying that? I really hope they are found, it must be so hard for family and friends not knowing.
Moo

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

the shovel i saw in the plastic bag looked pretty rusty, i guess if its been out in the elements for a year, wonder if they left fingerprints on the handle? may depend on whether it was a planned (use gloves) or unplanned?

I looked closer at this vid, you can see one already in the car when he puts the second one in. If that is the second shovel they both look the same. Is that odd? Why would you have 2 identical shovels on you? Surely they didn't go buy 2 shovels for the occasion.

Shovels taken into evidence in search for Russell Hill and Carol Clay