Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[SouthAussie]

Did they ransack his vehicle though? I thought it was found locked and undisturbed. If that's the case then its obviously foul play. I thought the only reason the investigators have given for foul play is the lack of any signs of the bodies during their extensive search of the surrounding area. And they have therefore concluded the only explanation is the bodies had to be moved elsewhere by someone. They also maintain that the cause of the fire is suspicious however the cause is inconclusive. Also i believe they were originally thinking it was a mobile phone charger however they have moved past this. A fire caused by a drone battery is much different.

There were business cards and such (wallet stuff) laying around in the vehicle cab, and the bank cards were gone. Then the vehicle was locked.

Also, under testing, the tent fabric wouldn't stay alight. Which is why they think the gas bottles were used to keep the tent fabric burning.
As well, the fire was very contained - no spread at all - so they think it was purposely extinguished. Things that were usually kept outside the tent had been thrown into the fire.

 

[K9Enzo]

I call the set up Russel and Carol had as "car camping". Although the area was remote, they didn't have to backpack in. They were able to drive in and set up camp. It would be normal to lock up the vehicle if they were both going to be away from it (hiking, then returning). Having a toilet set up is a luxury (IMO). Without it, it appears they would have been squatting, digging a cat hole to go to the bathroom. I also find it odd if Carol never used it.. I keep imagining an altercation that happened quickly after they arrived. It even makes sense to me if the bad guy(s) burned the campsite - why not? Whether it was to conceal evidence or just add confusion it makes sense to me. I have said before, folks can get bent out of shape in "shared" outdoor areas or some people will claim something as theirs, when it's not. I still wonder if that drone made someone very angry. When this is solved (hopefully), I don't think it will be anything elaborate or planned. IMO

One thing that keeps nagging me - was there ever any solid sighting of Carol with Russell in the camp area?

 

[DannyMosquito]

There were business cards and such (wallet stuff) laying around in the vehicle cab, and the bank cards were gone. Then the vehicle was locked.

Also, under testing, the tent fabric wouldn't stay alight. Which is why they think the gas bottles were used to keep the tent fabric burning.
As well, the fire was very contained - no spread at all - so they think it was purposely extinguished. Things that were usually kept outside the tent had been thrown into the fire.

I'm not saying you are wrong but can you confirm the vehicle being ransacked? I cannot find any information from investigators or the news that says they believe the vehicle was locked by anyone other than Russell Hill. Most statements from the lead investigator only ever mentioned the phones and drone were missing but i did find one news item that says his bankcards were missing but didn't allude to them being stolen from his car and could have simply been on him at the time. Also I found article on where they talk about the tent lining having to be burnt with gas burners which is exactly what drone batteries become when they rupture. The gas ignites and its just a continual roaring flame.
Im not trying to be a pain or a conspiracy theorist in fact I'm hoping to be doing the opposite as i still think this was most likely caused by a more innocent explanation.

 

[Via Marple]

Given the non-usage of the toilet, I am beginning to wonder if they were attacked before they had even had dinner. So pretty much straight after they had set up. How could you annoy someone so quickly?

All good points everyone regarding the toilet of interest...

It would be odd though if Russell started playing with the drone, even before Carol needing to use the toilet. That said, you never know people's private habits until you do...

 

[Satchie]

Most likely toilet would have been like one of these. This is a very well known brand
Porta Potti Qube 365 - 21 Litres

You add freshwater to a holding tank to flush and additives to the tank to treat inputs and control odours.

MOO

OK, that's not one that would be emptied in the bushes, more at a waste station. I was thinking of a home-type one.

 

[Satchie]

O/T Are you all getting pop-up videos of a sudden? I don't like it. I might have to absent myself for a few days and hope they get removed.

Yes, I get one when I link to my History. Easy to close tho. I expect it's a new revenue source for WS.

 

[Satchie]

All good points everyone regarding the toilet of interest...

It would be odd though if Russell started playing with the drone, even before Carol needing to use the toilet. That said, you never know people's private habits until you do...

We know nothing concrete about his use of the drone at the campsite. We do know he must have set up his radio equipment because he made contact with his regular buddies, and that finished about 6:30 pm. He told his friend it was going to get dark and he still had to set up camp, but I wonder about the truthfulness of that comment: What would Carol have been doing while waiting for him to finish his call?

 

[Satchie]

I'm not saying you are wrong but can you confirm the vehicle being ransacked? I cannot find any information from investigators or the news that says they believe the vehicle was locked by anyone other than Russell Hill. Most statements from the lead investigator only ever mentioned the phones and drone were missing but i did find one news item that says his bankcards were missing but didn't allude to them being stolen from his car and could have simply been on him at the time. Also I found article on where they talk about the tent lining having to be burnt with gas burners which is exactly what drone batteries become when they rupture. The gas ignites and its just a continual roaring flame.
Im not trying to be a pain or a conspiracy theorist in fact I'm hoping to be doing the opposite as i still think this was most likely caused by a more innocent explanation.

There is a TV show where the first guy on the scene describes what he found in the truck
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJFSy9ijLyc&ved=2ahUKEwik5OuytJzwAhVZIDQIHRtyD_AQo7QBegQIBRAE&usg=AOvVaw1_ESWb4R4nlh0yXXY5XMR8

Police have found no sign of sleeping bag zippers in the fire debris, leading to speculation they may have been removed along with bodies.
Police 'close' to cracking high profile missing persons case

 

[4Erica]

Greetings! Just read about this case and have some thoughts. I admit that I haven't read every single post and article and I don't know how things work in Australia but if this went down in the US IMO, this is what I see happening: wife has had enough. Hit man is employed. GPS tracker is either placed in the truck or simply by phone (since they seem to be one of the few missing items). They are ambushed at the campsite. Shot with hollow points that don't exit the body. Tent burned to cover evidence. Bodies carried elsewhere for disposal. Drone stolen for $$$ or just because it looked like a fun toy. Killer might have followed them the whole way there. The missing radio call could have been the sign that the job was done.
RIP Carol and Russell. She must have been really crazy about him.
Edited to add: hope I am allowed to say these things. And there is a rack on the side of the truck. Something was sitting on it that either melted or was removed - that accounts for the odd pattern on the box side.

 

[Satchie]

Re the lady queuing at the longdrop toilet - I am starting to think that maybe it really was Carol. Apparently there was a resemblance, and she was also "dressy"? Or am I misremembering?

I think some information is getting mixed up.

It appears police have been trying to account for absolutely everyone who was in the area of the campsite on the 20th.

As of March 18, police were still looking for a vehicle seen in the area of the campsite the day before Russell and Carol arrived: a white SUV style UTE (not resembling Russell's truck). No one has stated anything about the occupants.

Here is an interview with a police detective March 18th, it includes a photo of the kind of vehicle and summary of key aspects of the case:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=822943335236689

 

[Satchie]

Greetings! Just read about this case and have some thoughts. I admit that I haven't read every single post and article and I don't know how things work in Australia but if this went down in the US IMO, this is what I see happening: wife has had enough. Hit man is employed. GPS tracker is either placed in the truck or simply by phone (since they seem to be one of the few missing items). They are ambushed at the campsite. Shot with hollow points that don't exit the body. Tent burned to cover evidence. Bodies carried elsewhere for disposal. Drone stolen for $$$ or just because it looked like a fun toy. Killer might have followed them the whole way there. The missing radio call could have been the sign that the job was done.
RIP Carol and Russell. She must have been really crazy about him.
Edited to add: hope I am allowed to say these things. And there is a rack on the side of the truck. Something was sitting on it that either melted or was removed - that accounts for the odd pattern on the box side.

I don't know that there are any actual cases like that in the US, though. Maybe movies or TV shows, but can you cite an actual case?

 

[Via Marple]

I don't know that there are any actual cases like that in the US, though. Maybe movies or TV shows, but can you cite an actual case?

A guy in Australia has been convicted of hiring a hit man to kill his wife

Australia - Dr. Michael Chye, 36, & Rita Caleo, 39, murdered, Sydney, 1989 & 1990 *Arrests*

And this guy was my former neighbour some 20 years later, that was how long he remained free to live his life.

Motive was probably revenge on her changing her will, and also perhaps silencing her(if he had also directed the murder of her brother).

 

[Marg from Oz]

O/T Are you all getting pop-up videos of a sudden? I don't like it. I might have to absent myself for a few days and hope they get removed.

Yes and even when you try to delete them it takes a couple of times before they disappear. Some of them say "Google".

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not saying you are wrong but can you confirm the vehicle being ransacked?

<RSBM>

As well as the link to the Under Investigation show, which Satchie linked in post #608 and which will explain a lot of things that various experts have examined, there is a photo back in the threads somewhere of the inside of Russell's vehicle where you can see the business cards strewn about.

I am not sure that ransacked is the right word. I think it is possible that whoever just grabbed the wallet(s) and looked in them ... pulled out the cards, and took the bank cards.

All theories are welcome.
We have looked at innocent explanations - as I am sure the investigators have - and foul play with third party involvement is now their main thought. There are likely reasons that we don't know about for that.

 

[Satchie]

A guy in Australia has been convicted of hiring a hit man to kill his wife

Australia - Dr. Michael Chye, 36, & Rita Caleo, 39, murdered, Sydney, 1989 & 1990 *Arrests*

And this guy was my former neighbour some 20 years later, that was how long he remained free to live his life.

Motive was probably revenge on her changing her will, and also perhaps silencing her(if he had also directed the murder of her brother).

Interesting, pretty creepy that he was your neighbour. But the victims were both killed and both found in their homes. If that had happened to Russell and Carol, IMO this would be a completely different case.

 

[4Erica]

Mr Inbetween (TV Series 2018– ) - IMDb
Mr Inbetween (2018– )
In Mr Inbetween, Ryan plays "Ray Shoesmith," a father, ex-husband, boyfriend and best friend: tough roles to juggle in the modern age. Even harder when you're a criminal for hire.
Country of Origin
Australia
Filming Locations
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

 

[Satchie]

I am not sure that ransacked is the right word. I think it is possible that whoever just grabbed the wallet(s) and looked in them ... pulled out the cards, and took the bank cards.

RSBM

Kind of curious why someone would take the financial cards. If anyone tried to use them it would be a great clue. Was it just a matter of policy to take everything of potential value, including truck keys, cause you never know what might come in handy?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

That's if the credit cards were there in the first place. They might have been in one of those protective little metal cases.

Maybe whoever couldn't find them in the wallet and tried to force Russell and or Carol to give them up and they wouldn't tell them where they were. Maybe Russell had some secret place where he kept them when they were camping.

As well as the link to the Under Investigation show, which Satchie linked in post #608 and which will explain a lot of things that various experts have examined, there is a photo back in the threads somewhere of the inside of Russell's vehicle where you can see the business cards strewn about.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Or maybe they just left credit cards at home and took enough cash to tide them over for the days they'd be away.

Maybe whoever couldn't find them in the wallet and tried to force Russell and or Carol to give them up and they wouldn't tell them where they were. Maybe Russell had some secret place where he kept them when they were camping.

 

[SouthAussie]

Or maybe they just left credit cards at home and took enough cash to tide them over for the days they'd be away.

Could be. I guess the police will know if Russell and/or Carol used their accounts after they left for Wonnongatta. And it could be why they say the bank cards are missing.

We do know that they haven't used their accounts since they disappeared.