Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[Satchie]

Or maybe they just left credit cards at home and took enough cash to tide them over for the days they'd be away.

For myself, cards are an essential security back up when travelling, in case the truck breaks down, etc.

Regardless of whether someone found them, they seem to have gone through the wallets, looking for them. But didn't just grab the wallets, as many car thieves do.

It just suggests the idea of someone who took the time to pick through their stuff, carefully removing anything that might have value and leaving/burning what they didn't want. Suggests a partly financial motive, and/or someone who's hard up.

 

[bearbear]

theres a different photo of russells vehicle in this article, probably after it was returned to his home?

Mr Hill’s car has been returned to his home where specialist detectives hope to examine it again for further clues

By then, the wreckage from the scene was long gone or contaminated
Mrs Hill told Daily Mail Australia she had her doubts about the mobile phone supposedly causing the fire.

‘I don’t know about that. I hear so many different stories. There are too many different stories and I’m not saying anything about it,’ she said.

Officers had determined that no accelerant had been used to start the fire.
Mystery of missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay may have gone up in flames without a trace | | Express Digest

 

[trixie_au]

RSBM

Kind of curious why someone would take the financial cards. If anyone tried to use them it would be a great clue. Was it just a matter of policy to take everything of potential value, including truck keys, cause you never know what might come in handy?

if I indulge in 4Erica’s theory for a moment, which to be honest is something I’ve really leaned towards too, then perhaps the hit-man was instructed to take the bank cards to prevent them being stolen and used by some random unscrupulous person who might accidentally come across the camp and decide to pinch them? I mean, it’s not like the cards could’ve been reported/cancelled straight away, so they’d have to remain ‘active’ until the police were involved, etc. Taking them would prevent them being used.

 

[bearbear]

unless the credit cards were taken because they belonged to a joint acc, and the person was worried someone else may use them, also why they locked the vehicle afterwards?

 

[SouthAussie]

if I indulge in 4Erica’s theory for a moment, which to be honest is something I’ve really leaned towards too, then perhaps the hit-man was instructed to take the bank cards to prevent them being stolen and used by some random unscrupulous person who might accidentally come across the camp and decide to pinch them? I mean, it’s not like the cards could’ve been reported/cancelled straight away, so they’d have to remain ‘active’ until the police were involved, etc. Taking them would prevent them being used.

I have leaned this way a lot, also. For an accumulation of reasons. Not that I can think of all of those reasons at this moment, but they have been accumulating in my mind.

It is almost as if too many motives have been prepared.
Missing drone .. "oh they wandered off looking for the drone and disappeared down a rabbit hole and the drone is lost"
Burned tent and belongings .... "accidental tent fire"
Missing bank cards & phones .... "petty theft and random killer(s)".

When Rob said that Russell could be considered wealthy, a red flag went up for me.
And when Rob said there were those who didn't like that Russell took Carol on a camping trip with the ham radio group, I wondered who those people might be, and who they may be associated with (apart from the group who went).

 

[trixie_au]

I have leaned this way a lot, also. For an accumulation of reasons. Not that I can think of all of those reasons at this moment, but they have been accumulating in my mind.

It is almost as if too many motives have been prepared.
Missing drone .. "oh they wandered off looking for the drone and disappeared down a rabbit hole and the drone is lost"
Burned tent and belongings .... "accidental tent fire"
Missing bank cards & phones .... "petty theft and random killer(s)".

When Rob said that Russell could be considered wealthy, a red flag went up for me.
And when Rob said there were those who didn't like that Russell took Carol on a camping trip with the ham radio group, I wondered who those people might be, and who they may be associated with (apart from the group who went).

Yes! Exactly same for me. And following on from my last post.. what if some random opportunistic person came across the un-burned, unattended camp, went inside the tent and went through RH & CC’s things, then turned their attention to the vehicle, finding it locked with what appeared to be wallet/purse already in disarray. Then perhaps the random person panicked, realised something bad had happened and also realising they’d just left their DNA and prints inside the tent on things, even the chairs maybe, and decided to set fire to it to try and remove any evidence that they had stopped by...?

 

[4Erica]

Was other ID left behind? Because I think the bank cards were taken to conceal their identity for as long as possible.

 

[trixie_au]

Was other ID left behind? Because I think the bank cards were taken to conceal their identity for as long as possible.

A simple rego check would identify the vehicle owner straight away though.

 

[bearbear]

it feels like a very well thought out controlled plan, otherwise why not just burn their bodies with the evidence? was that just to add further mystery and to look like they ran off together?
unless they were still alive when taken from the scene and killed later?

 

[4Erica]

Twist in case of two missing campers as cops KNOW who was near campsite amid affair | Daily Mail Online

"Fire forensics expert Greg Kelly experimented with tent fibers and ropes to see if an accidental fire could have started, but said the materials burned too slowly and extinguished themselves before a blaze could have properly ignited.

There were also no burn marks across the car doors, which were nearby, the tyres weren't melted, and the esky - which was underneath the car - was intact.

Mr Kelly said the scene suggested the fire was short and hot, which was likely caused by an accelerant - such as the gas canisters inside the tent."
Sorry to rehash old business but this says to me this wasn't an accident.

And from same article:
"While detectives probed the couple's relationship, it was quickly ruled out as a likely reason for their mysterious disappearance."
Does anyone know how they arrived at this conclusion?

 

[4Erica]

A simple rego check would identify the vehicle owner straight away though.

Would that require the police? I guess I was thinking about John Q Public not being able to identify them right away. Not understanding Aussie protocol is a barrier for me

 

[Kemug]

I am thinking that the wallet and cards being strewn around the vehicle was an attempt to make the whole thing look like a robbery gone wrong - which it wasn't.

 

[SouthAussie]

Would that require the police? I guess I was thinking about John Q Public not being able to identify them right away. Not understanding Aussie protocol is a barrier for me

Yes, a vehicle rego check would require the police. But the vehicle was locked, so the bank cards being missing likely wouldn't have been noticed (by anyone else) until the police unlocked the vehicle anyway.

 

[Theodora]

"And when Rob said there were those who didn't like that Russell took Carol on a camping trip with the ham radio group, I wondered who those people might be, and who they may be associated with (apart from the group who went)."

Rob said something along the lines that others in the group didn't want people to think the trips weren't "clean". I took this to mean they saw Russell & Carol as having a "dirty weekend" & didn't want their own wives to think they might be taking a female friend on these trips. Rob, Russell and probably others in the group were of an age where a lot of Australian men don't want women around when they're socialising, the old "No bloody Sheilas" mentality.

 

[JLZ]

I have leaned this way a lot, also. For an accumulation of reasons. Not that I can think of all of those reasons at this moment, but they have been accumulating in my mind.

It is almost as if too many motives have been prepared.
Missing drone .. "oh they wandered off looking for the drone and disappeared down a rabbit hole and the drone is lost"
Burned tent and belongings .... "accidental tent fire"
Missing bank cards & phones .... "petty theft and random killer(s)".

When Rob said that Russell could be considered wealthy, a red flag went up for me.
And when Rob said there were those who didn't like that Russell took Carol on a camping trip with the ham radio group, I wondered who those people might be, and who they may be associated with (apart from the group who went).

If the wife had hired a hitman there should be a money trail, a large unexplained deduction from her accounts at some stage, unless she'd been piggy-banking a few dollars a week for many years. I would expect police to have checked accounts as a matter of routine.

 

[SouthAussie]

"And when Rob said there were those who didn't like that Russell took Carol on a camping trip with the ham radio group, I wondered who those people might be, and who they may be associated with (apart from the group who went)."

Rob said something along the lines that others in the group didn't want people to think the trips weren't "clean". I took this to mean they saw Russell & Carol as having a "dirty weekend" & didn't want their own wives to think they might be taking a female friend on these trips. Rob, Russell and probably others in the group were of an age where a lot of Australian men don't want women around when they're socialising, the old "No bloody Sheilas" mentality.

I think the wives actually went along on the ham radio group camping trips. I don't think it was a female-exempt thing. Just that Carol was not Russell's wife.

Over the years, the pair had camped together regularly with their wives and other radio club members.
“I think they’ve been murdered”


ETA: The weird thing is this article says “Carol was never ever brought on radio club trips. And apparently Carol’s been around the scene for 20 years, on and off,” Mr Ashlin said.

But I am sure that later on (or earlier) Rob did say that Carol had been on one of these trips, and others didn't like it. Maybe I will stumble on that link again at some point.

 

[SBops]

If the wife had hired a hitman there should be a money trail, a large unexplained deduction from her accounts at some stage, unless she'd been piggy-banking a few dollars a week for many years. I would expect police to have checked accounts as a matter of routine.

I reckon the wife could not care less as long as he was not bothering her.

 

[SouthAussie]

If the wife had hired a hitman there should be a money trail, a large unexplained deduction from her accounts at some stage, unless she'd been piggy-banking a few dollars a week for many years. I would expect police to have checked accounts as a matter of routine.

Personally, I am not thinking hired hitman.

 

[JLZ]

Personally, I am not thinking hired hitman.

And are you thinking that the motive for this person was to oblige Russell's wife, or long anger, or money? Any preference?

 

[SouthAussie]

And are you thinking that the motive for this person was to oblige Russell's wife, or long anger, or money? Any preference?

I think money.
I don't think Russell would have had any thought of cutting his wife out of any inheritance. That could mean a legal challenge to his will ... and I dont think he would have thought to do that anyway. I think there was consideration for his wife's feelings and welfare, by both Carol and Russell.

Just the sense that I get of the situation.

But money could have affected other people.