Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[SouthAussie]

The Herald Sun article says that the police have specialised crew out there. Today was their third day out there.

The crew consists of the missing persons squad, and the air wing, the drone unit, search and rescue crews, and Parks Victoria.

The specialised police crews are focusing on Dargo High Plains Road, Cynthia Range Track, Herne Spur Track and the Wonnangatta Track.

Another thing that it says is that Russell is 'recently retired'. Presumably this means that he now has access to his Superannuation. I wonder how much Superannuation he has, and if he used any of it to help fund Carol's unit/closing costs/whatever.

Call for people to ‘open their mouths’ on the case of missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay

 

[Marchalot]

I'd have faced the car bonnet towards the other way incase I needed quick escape with all things that could happen. A few seconds could make a difference

Me too. Also whether Russell's vehicle was used to move the bodies.

As the perp or as Russell?

Mmm .. either now that you say that

 

[Marchalot]

I'd have faced the car bonnet towards the other way incase I needed quick escape with all things that could happen. A few seconds could make a difference

Me too. Also whether Russell's vehicle was used to move the bodies.

As the perp or as Russell?

Mmm .. either now that you say that

 

[SouthAussie]

The 4 tracks that the police are focusing on seem to lead to Dargo ... which we know Russell had talked about, and he had planned to camp along the way to Dargo during that week.

It is also a primary route south out of the valley.



Google Maps

 

[SouthAussie]

This is behind a paywall but I don't remember seeing the last four words before.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

“I thought he was going alone, I can’t believe it.


In my opinion she didn't know the extent of their friendship.

The context in which that was stated (it was stated in April 2020, according to your linked article) is ....

“I just wish they would find them both alive”
“I thought he was going alone, I can’t believe it."
“I’ve got a feeling they may have died.”

I recall reading this last year, because we wondered why the quick feeling that Russell and Carol are deceased.
But the feeling was likely because there were no more nightly ham radio calls. Which concerned Rob also.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

The 4 tracks that the police are focusing on seem to lead to Dargo ... which we know Russell had talked about, and he had planned to camp along the way to Dargo during that week.

It is also a primary route south out of the valley.

View attachment 294755

Google Maps

To dargo, or further on, over the top to Hotham, which Is where the shovel situation was. Or back down towards Bairnsdale maybe. I didn’t double check tat on a map though.

When RH allegedly asked RA how he’d get to dargo/how you get to dargo, I wonder if that’s the way RA told him. Theres multiple options they must have a reason to think that route as opposed to a different one (we went on Wombat something or other not Herne Spur, for example).

 

[TootsieFootsie]

They're being very quiet about this latest search.

 

[SouthAussie]

There are no suspects at this stage, but there are still several persons of interest. Police have yet to determine whether any of those people were linked to the Mount Hotham area.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...sell-hill-and-carol-clay-20210426-p57mh9.html

I really wonder who they have got their sights set on ... and what are the clues/indicators.

I think there must be pretty strong indicators for the police to be so relentless in their searches. I sense they may need to find Russell and/or Carol to be able to lay charges.

 

[4Erica]

When RH allegedly asked RA how he’d get to dargo/how you get to dargo, I wonder if that’s the way RA told him. Theres multiple options they must have a reason to think that route as opposed to a different one (we went on Wombat something or other not Herne Spur, for example).

I just ran across that:
“I think they’ve been murdered”
"Mr Ashlin gave Mr Hill directions on how to get to Dargo through Wombat Spur and Talbotville from Wonnangatta."

 

[Puzzles]

Musings:

Someone entered Russell's van and left the cards from the wallet strewn on the seat. We've thus far learned no information about fingerprints/DNA found outside or inside the vehicle, and/or on the cards, but it's probable LE has collected that evidence.

Do they match fingerprints/DNA found on the shovels? Or perhaps the shovels are not connected at all to this case.

LE continues to report interest in finding the occupants of the white ute.

What information do we have about it, other than it was seen at the long-drop public toilet the day before Russell made his last call, according to the Daily Mail, or seen near the couple’s campsite, according to The Australian?

The vehicle was spotted at a public 'long drop' toilet in the Valley the day before the camping companions last made contact with friends.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9514263/Police-scour-bushland-search-missing-Victorian-campers-Carol-Clay-Russell-Hill.html

And this, posted in The Australian on March 19 2021: “...Earlier this month police appealed for information regarding a white dual cab ute that had been seen near the couple’s campsite on March 19, 2020…"
NoCookies | The Australian

Are these two separate sightings of the white ute?

Was the white ute captured on CCTV? If so, was the registration plate identified?

If the white ute wasn't captured on CCTV, did whomever report seeing it also describe the occupant/s?

Who set the fire, controlled it and extinguished it? Vandals, at the scene after RH and CC were no longer at the site? Or those directly involved in their disappearance? The latter seems probable, to destroy potential forensic evidence, but I don't think we can be certain.

Was the drone turned in truly not Russell's? Or was the owner of it not disclosed to the public to give false information to possible abductors/murderers?

Can we be certain the last radio call Russell made was from the campsite in question?

Were Russell and Carol ever actually at the burned-out campsite?

No doubt LE has answers for all these questions, as we sleuths puddle along with scant information to explain the many complex details of this mystery.

 

[Satchie]

Musings:

Someone entered Russell's van and left the cards from the wallet strewn on the seat. We've thus far learned no information about fingerprints/DNA found outside or inside the vehicle, and/or on the cards, but it's probable LE has collected that evidence.

Do they match fingerprints/DNA found on the shovels? Or perhaps the shovels are not connected at all to this case.

LE continues to report interest in finding the occupants of the white ute.

What information do we have about it, other than it was seen at the long-drop public toilet the day before Russell made his last call, according to the Daily Mail, or seen near the couple’s campsite, according to The Australian?

The vehicle was spotted at a public 'long drop' toilet in the Valley the day before the camping companions last made contact with friends.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9514263/Police-scour-bushland-search-missing-Victorian-campers-Carol-Clay-Russell-Hill.html

And this, posted in The Australian on March 19 2021: “...Earlier this month police appealed for information regarding a white dual cab ute that had been seen near the couple’s campsite on March 19, 2020…"
NoCookies | The Australian

Are these two separate sightings of the white ute?

Was the white ute captured on CCTV? If so, was the registration plate identified?

If the white ute wasn't captured on CCTV, did whomever report seeing it also describe the occupant/s?

Who set the fire, controlled it and extinguished it? Vandals, at the scene after RH and CC were no longer at the site? Or those directly involved in their disappearance? The latter seems probable, to destroy potential forensic evidence, but I don't think we can be certain.

Was the drone turned in truly not Russell's? Or was the owner of it not disclosed to the public to give false information to possible abductors/murderers?

Can we be certain the last radio call Russell made was from the campsite in question?

Were Russell and Carol ever actually at the burned-out campsite?

No doubt LE has answers for all these questions, as we sleuths puddle along with scant information to explain the many complex details of this mystery.

I think there is just one vehicle LE want to know about. I doubt it was seen on camera, otherwise they'd likely know the make and model and publish that info. So, one or more eyewitnesses must have reported it.

For your other questions, I don't see the point of doubting absolutely everything...IMO, that just leads to conspiracy thinking.

 

[Theodora]

Another thing that it says is that Russell is 'recently retired'. Presumably this means that he now has access to his Superannuation. I wonder how much Superannuation he has, and if he used any of it to help fund Carol's unit/closing costs/whatever.

Call for people to ‘open their mouths’ on the case of missing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay

Once you're over 65 you can withdraw your superannuation, assuming you haven't invested it in some resrictive way, some sort of pension or annuity.

Carol may not have needed financial assistance from Russell. She may have owned a house with husband No 2 (I had the impression Mr Clay was husband No1 and that he died but I don't know where I got that impression). When Carol and husband No 2 divorced they both might have received enough from the sale of the house to buy themselves a unit each.

I wonder when Carol and husband No 2 married? Was she already engaged in her affair with Russell. If not, how long had they been together before it started?

 

[Puzzles]

I think there is just one vehicle LE want to know about. I doubt it was seen on camera, otherwise they'd likely know the make and model and publish that info. So, one or more eyewitnesses must have reported it.

For your other questions, I don't see the point of doubting absolutely everything...IMO, that just leads to conspiracy thinking.

BBM

You state "...I don't see the point of doubting absolutely everything...IMO, that just leads to conspiracy thinking…”

To my knowledge, it has not been reported that Russell and Carol were those who set up the campsite.
Nor, to my knowledge, has it been reported Russell made his last radio call from the campsite in question.
Nor, to my knowledge, has it been reported that fingerprints/DNA from the van and the cards found inside it show it was Russell and/or Carol who were the last persons to enter the van.
Nor, to my knowledge, has it been reported who set, controlled, and extinguished the fire.
Nor, to my knowledge has it been reported Russell and Carol were ever seen at the campsite that was subsequently burned.

Therefore, I don’t believe my questions demonstrate “doubting absolutely everything”.
The only “doubt” I implied was the report the found drone was not Russell’s. IMO, it's reasonable to consider the drone was indeed Russell’s, and information provided to media about it was a strategic communication meant solely for the perpetrator/s of the crime.

See Forbes article titled “Yes, Associated Press, Cops can Lie To Catch Bad Guys."

Asking questions, as I was, about unknown details pertaining to a complex mystery, IMO, is what occurs during an investigation.

Rather than portray “conspiracy thinking,” my intent was to elicit responses, ideas and findings from other sleuths here.

Yours was a surprise, @Satchie.

I don’t see the point in disparaging lines of enquiry by anyone here. However, I forgive you.

Further, I suggest it would be difficult to construct any conspiracy notion more perplexing than the facts reported to us about the baffling disappearance of Russell and Carol.



Yes, Associated Press, Cops Can Lie To Catch Bad Guys

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Possibly because it was said that she lost her first husband. I take that to mean that he died..

Carol may not have needed financial assistance from Russell. She may have owned a house with husband No 2 (I had the impression Mr Clay was husband No1 and that he died but I don't know where I got that impression).

 

[Theodora]

Possibly because it was said that she lost her first husband. I take that to mean that he died..

Yes I would take "lost" to mean he died. That must have been what I read.

 

[SouthAussie]

I was wondering last night if someone in Russell's and/or Carol's family is in law enforcement. It is neither here nor there, but it might explain the families extreme privacy. And why the police are not giving up on this case at all.

The police are consistently throwing a ton of resources at this case, and keeping its profile very (relatively) high in the media.

 

[Marchalot]

I think there is just one vehicle LE want to know about. I doubt it was seen on camera, otherwise they'd likely know the make and model and publish that info. So, one or more eyewitnesses must have reported it.

For your other questions, I don't see the point of doubting absolutely everything...IMO, that just leads to conspiracy thinking.

One thing we do know , the owners of this car haven't come forward .. . If they did and eliminated would it be let known?

 

[Monsoon]

Carol may not have needed financial assistance from Russell. She may have owned a house with husband No 2 (I had the impression Mr Clay was husband No1 and that he died but I don't know where I got that impression). When Carol and husband No 2 divorced they both might have received enough from the sale of the house to buy themselves a unit each.

I wonder when Carol and husband No 2 married? Was she already engaged in her affair with Russell. If not, how long had they been together before it started?

Earlier I thought that Mr Clay was husband number 1. However I think another person was husband number 1, and died. I think the second marriage was to Mr Clay, approximately over the last 20 years or so, and ended a few years ago. I haven't seen any comment from Mr Clay regarding Carol's disappearance.

 

[trixie_au]

Earlier I thought that Mr Clay was husband number 1. However I think another person was husband number 1, and died. I think the second marriage was to Mr Clay, approximately over the last 20 years or so, and ended a few years ago. I haven't seen any comment from Mr Clay regarding Carol's disappearance.

I’m leaning towards Mr Clay being husband #2 also.
We know in 2000 Carol moved with her family to South Gippsland, then in 2001 Carol became a member of the Berrys Creek CWA, this was when she first joined the CWA. (Berrys Creek is about halfway between Leongatha and Mirboo North, along the Strzelecki Highway.)
She was Group president of the Gippsland Hills Group from 2003-2005. Then in 2006 she joined the Pakenham CWA. So perhaps this move up to Pakky was between when hubby #1 died, and meeting/marrying hubby #2....? Or did that happen when she moved from wherever ‘with her family’, down to South Gippy?

 

[Monsoon]

I’m leaning towards Mr Clay being husband #2 also.
We know in 2000 Carol moved with her family to South Gippsland, then in 2001 Carol became a member of the Berrys Creek CWA, this was when she first joined the CWA. (Berrys Creek is about halfway between Leongatha and Mirboo North, along the Strzelecki Highway.)
She was Group president of the Gippsland Hills Group from 2003-2005. Then in 2006 she joined the Pakenham CWA. So perhaps this move up to Pakky was between when hubby #1 died, and meeting/marrying hubby #2....? Or did that happen when she moved from wherever ‘with her family’, down to South Gippy?

I know some more about this. How much are we allowed to post here ?