Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[Theodora]

If their deaths were accidental, I guess it could be that they only wanted to conceal the bodies because something eg bullet or DNA might lead to the identification of the killers. Same would probably apply if they were murdered but the killers might want people to realise they were probably dead rather than that they had eloped. I have read in some articles on police work involving murders that, if the body isn't found within about 24 hours it becomes much more difficult to solve the crime, depending on the circumstances.

I should add that I don't suspect RbH, nor do I suspect any family member of CC. I have no information about any other family member or friend except RA. I don't have any idea about any particular suspect. I just have a feeling it was someone who either knew them both, or if they only knew one of them, that it was more likely to be RH than CC. When they disappeared, RH had only retired from his business relatively recently, perhaps a couple of years, so it is possible there is a connection to his business interests and CC was just "collateral damage".

Why leave all that identification laying around if their accidental deaths are being concealed?

 

[4Erica]

I am nagged by the feeling that she meant something else. In an earlier reply I suggested she might have meant "realist" but I now favour "fatalist". We don't know anything much about RbH, her education level, the extent of her life experience since marrying RH. She says she's coping and has support but who knows how she thinks or feels? I think she might think "sadist" means something other than it does.
I'm friendly with a well educated, intelligent woman who nevertheless comes out with the most amazing malapropisms over the years, rapeable for ropeable, tenacity used in a context that made clear she meant either temerity or audacity. That might be all there is to the use of sadist here.

I see three possibilities:
1) She didn't know what she was saying. I won't doubt her intelligence without knowing anything about her.

2) She knew exactly what she was saying.

3) Freudian slip.

If their deaths were accidental, I guess it could be that they only wanted to conceal the bodies because something eg bullet or DNA might lead to the identification of the killers. Same would probably apply if they were murdered but the killers might want people to realise they were probably dead rather than that they had eloped. I have read in some articles on police work involving murders that, if the body isn't found within about 24 hours it becomes much more difficult to solve the crime, depending on the circumstances.

I should add that I don't suspect RbH, nor do I suspect any family member of CC. I have no information about any other family member or friend except RA. I don't have any idea about any particular suspect. I just have a feeling it was someone who either knew them both, or if they only knew one of them, that it was more likely to be RH than CC. When they disappeared, RH had only retired from his business relatively recently, perhaps a couple of years, so it is possible there is a connection to his business interests and CC was just "collateral damage".

I think a bullet is easier to retrieve and dispose of than two bodies. Either way, I still can't see a scenario where leaving the contents of your victim's wallets strewn around (who you want to disappear because you accidentally killed or murdered them) makes sense to me unless you want them known but their money not taken.
Perhaps I'm suffering from confirmation bias.

 

[Marchalot]

I asked a friend who's a space & air instrument buff , his opinion about the weighty evidence bag . He easily said looks like a drone inside bc of this & that. But not 100% sure...

 

[Marchalot]

The crime scene seems staged to me…the fire controlled, with the truck deliberately left intact so as the perpetrator/s had the opportunity to make it look like a robbery gone wrong, rifling through personal belongings and removing some items. An attempt to throw police off.

If the disappearance is connected to someone known to them, RH & CC wouldn’t necessarily have been followed for days, either of them may have mentioned details about the camping trip in the days or weeks prior.

It’s a fairly rare crime in Australia IMO for two people to be murdered together in some random act. Very possible though!

1. You'd think if planned, someone would wait for Russell to be alone if their upset with just them. for whatever reason..and same with Carol. 2. Someone is upset equally with both or one is collateral. 3. Hunters 4. Hunters . 5. A previous run in up in the high country & someone waited for their return

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

The mammoth search for two campers who vanished in the Victorian wilderness nearly 15 months ago has been paused again.

Detectives last week redirected the search back to the Wonnangatta campgrounds, with extra focus on areas along the Dargo High Plains Road, Cynthia Range Track, Herne Spur Track and the Wonnangatta Track “as a result of information obtained from previous searches”.

But police on Wednesday confirmed “there are no current searches underway”.

Police said there was “no further update at this time” in relation to the shovels, which were sent off to be forensically examined in Melbourne.

 

[Marchalot]

There was also a number 1 suspect for the nth tynong and nth Frankston murders a few decades ago. $9 million Reward on his head.. He dropped dead thru this last year in his 80's.. he and his younger partner had a base at a town before Mt buller. He cornered us on the st at Mansfield when we were walking friends dogs at first we thought friendly old fella with a turned eyes , but the dogs hid behind us. After talking for about 15 mins , they said they were from Frankston nth.. Next night we literally saw on a current affairs about him. He's unmistakable & was same fella. We locked all the doors & felt sick... was he too old with younger accomplice to have one last hurrah..............? and yes. incase your wondering? I have sometimes a uncanny, unwanting knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.. I don't believe he was charged

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

There was also a number 1 suspect for the nth tynong and nth Frankston murders a few decades ago. $9 million Reward on his head.. He dropped dead thru this last year in his 80's.. he and his younger partner had a base at a town before Mt buller. He cornered us on the st at Mansfield when we were walking friends dogs at first we thought friendly old fella with a turned eyes , but the dogs hid behind us. After talking for about 15 mins , they said they were from Frankston nth.. Next night we literally saw on a current affairs about him. He's unmistakable & was same fella. We locked all the doors & felt sick... was he too old with younger accomplice to have one last hurrah..............? and yes. incase your wondering? I have sometimes a uncanny, unwanting knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.. I don't believe he was charged

With the Tynong north murders. I gather some of the bodies were on the property of an old quarry. Do you happen to know if that’s still quarry land, or is it now owned by another company on that road, or private property?

Andrew Rule’s podcast on that and Australian true crime/ meshel Laurie (sorry not sure of spelling) have both done great podcasts in relation to that case if you haven’t heard them.

 

[Marchalot]

With the Tynong north murders. I gather some of the bodies were on the property of an old quarry. Do you happen to know if that’s still quarry land, or is it now owned by another company on that road, or private property?

Andrew Rule’s podcast on that and Australian true crime/ meshel Laurie (sorry not sure of spelling) have both done great podcasts in relation to that case if you haven’t heard them.

I don't know? I googled and there's a few quarries up that way . Having lived near that way before I drove past on the freeway & think I know the road name & under Google I think the quarry on that rd could be private ? and a now concrete business.... No I haven't heard their podcasts on it but will. I read about it though.. very sad again, including two 14yrs old

 

[SouthAussie]

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

The mammoth search for two campers who vanished in the Victorian wilderness nearly 15 months ago has been paused again.

Detectives last week redirected the search back to the Wonnangatta campgrounds, with extra focus on areas along the Dargo High Plains Road, Cynthia Range Track, Herne Spur Track and the Wonnangatta Track “as a result of information obtained from previous searches”.

But police on Wednesday confirmed “there are no current searches underway”.

Police said there was “no further update at this time” in relation to the shovels, which were sent off to be forensically examined in Melbourne.

Really good clear view of one of the shovels in your linked article.



Also, look how high up on a hill the police vehicle is. The valley beyond the vehicle is a long way down.
What an incredibly hard task to try to find Russell and Carol in that kind of terrain.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The height of where they were really grabbed my attention. Not an easy area to search I imagine.

Also, look how high up on a hill the police vehicle is. The valley beyond the vehicle is a long way down

 

[4Erica]

There was a serial killer named Israel Keyes who drove rental vehicles while executing his dirty deeds on vacations. Could the white ute be a rental? I know it's highly unlikely but I had to bring it up.

Israel Keyes

 

[SouthAussie]

There was a serial killer named Israel Keyes who drove rental vehicles while executing his dirty deeds on vacations. Could the white ute be a rental? I know it's highly unlikely but I had to bring it up.

Israel Keyes

Nothing is out of the question, but I tend to think that the police know who they are looking at for this crime and who has that vehicle.

They will have been busy tracking down every likely white dual cab ute - through vehicle registration records - and establishing where those vehicles were on 20th March. If the vehicle is that important to the investigation.

I recall a comment a police officer made a bit earlier ... something about 'even if the person has since sold the white dual cab ute'. Makes me think there may be someone in their sights, that it was not a random comment.

 

[Marchalot]

Nothing is out of the question, but I tend to think that the police know who they are looking at for this crime and who has that vehicle.

They will have been busy tracking down every likely white dual cab ute - through vehicle registration records - and establishing where those vehicles were on 20th March. If the vehicle is that important to the investigation.

I recall a comment a police officer made a bit earlier ... something about 'even if the person has since sold the white dual cab ute'. Makes me think there may be someone in their sights, that it was not a random

Nothing is out of the question, but I tend to think that the police know who they are looking at for this crime and who has that vehicle.

They will have been busy tracking down every likely white dual cab ute - through vehicle registration records - and establishing where those vehicles were on 20th March. If the vehicle is that important to the investigation.

I recall a comment a police officer made a bit earlier ... something about 'even if the person has since sold the white dual cab ute'. Makes me think there may be someone in their sights, that it was not a random comment.

Do you think someone they suspect is on the run ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is another decent pic of the shovels. Sorry if others have seen this already, I hadn't noticed the photo before.
In an April 15th article.



Criminal psychologist Tim Watson-Munro ...
“This recent discovery suggests to me that police forensically have enough to start interviewing people,” he said.
“What forensic evidence is it, why has the search stopped now? Maybe there is DNA evidence on the shovels that links to someone police suspect already.”

" .....… my gut reaction is a domestic dynamic where possibly a third party was involved.”

‘They have enough’: Bold claim on campers

 

[Monsoon]

The mysterious white ute (see pic, from A Current Affair) seems to be an LDV brand. I know this is just a general pic but I wonder if police have reason to believe it might actually be this brand and model (T60), maybe from tyre prints. There aren't many LDV dealers in Vic - but there is one in both Sale and in Bairnsdale. LDV Australia - Locate a Dealer

 

[Satchie]

1. You'd think if planned, someone would wait for Russell to be alone if their upset with just them. for whatever reason..and same with Carol. 2. Someone is upset equally with both or one is collateral. 3. Hunters 4. Hunters . 5. A previous run in up in the high country & someone waited for their return

I agree, it doesn't usually happen that a targetted murderer(s) tries to target two people together at the same time. It's so much easier to make one person disappear, or perhaps, 2 people in sequence.

If they are targetted together, there has to be a very good reason for making the crime so much harder to carry out.

 

[Theodora]

The other alternative is that only RH was targeted and the killer(s) didn't know CC was with him. Her presence didn't deter the killer(s) from proceeding and she was killed to stop her talking

I agree, it doesn't usually happen that a targetted murderer(s) tries to target two people together at the same time. It's so much easier to make one person disappear, or perhaps, 2 people in sequence.

If they are targetted together, there has to be a very good reason for making the crime so much harder to carry out.

 

[Marchalot]

The other alternative is that only RH was targeted and the killer(s) didn't know CC was with him. Her presence didn't deter the killer(s) from proceeding and she was killed to stop her talking

Could Russell have taken carol with him bc he was uncomfortable on his own up there bc of something? & felt better in a pair or safer

 

[Theodora]

It's possible, particularly if we assume that he didn't think anyone he came across up there would be a cold blooded killer

Could Russell have taken carol with him bc he was uncomfortable on his own up there bc of something? & felt better in a pair or safer

 

[Satchie]

Could Russell have taken carol with him bc he was uncomfortable on his own up there bc of something? & felt better in a pair or safer

But why go at all if he didn't feel safe? There's plenty of other places to go.