Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #9

[Bats]

Supreme Court of Victoria Court of Appeal , S Eapcr 2024 0030 and Director of Public Prosecutions v Gregory Stuart Lynn [2024] VSCA 62 - BarNet Jade

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Thanks @SouthAussie ! I'll set aside some time and have a good read through the details of the evidence! Not your typical summer holiday read that's for sure!

When police use undercover operatives and in particular enter into 'Mr Big' type stings - as in the Morcombe case - the rules go out the window. They can get away with anything short of murder.

I could probably look this up but hypothetically, if the MPS team were able to go ahead with the undercover operation, presumably a warrant from the Supreme Court is required? Thus, negating the need to read a suspect their rights?

 

[SouthAussie]

I could probably look this up but hypothetically, if the MPS team were able to go ahead with the undercover operation, presumably a warrant from the Supreme Court is required? Thus, negating the need to read a suspect their rights?

There is some kind of special warrant required. I don't remember the details ... but I remember looking into it for another case.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Received my In The Dead of Night book yesterday.
Might start reading it this afternoon.

I was thinking of what I might read next, didn't have to be about crime, but a friend found a book about the murderer Bruce Burrell at a riverside fair and has loaned it to me.

It's called Lady Killer, by Candace Sutton and Ellen Connolly.

Searched and it seems there's no thread about the case.
His two victims were never found.

Off topic but the In The Dead of Night book got me back into reading again.

 

[drsleuth]

I was thinking of what I might read next, didn't have to be about crime, but a friend found a book about the murderer Bruce Burrell at a riverside fair and has loaned it to me.

It's called Lady Killer, by Candace Sutton and Ellen Connolly.

Searched and it seems there's no thread about the case.
His two victims were never found.

Off topic but the In The Dead of Night book got me back into reading again.

Tootsie the best book on that case is Missing, Presumed Dead by the Crown prosecutor Mark Tedeschi QC IMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks @drsleuth!

I'll look out for that one.

 

[JBowie]

It's called Lady Killer, by Candace Sutton and Ellen Connolly.

There's also Missing, Presumed Dead by Mark Tedeschi KC, a former Senior Crown prosecutor for New South Wales, who successfully prosecuted Burrell.

 

[Tricia]

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[emirates1957]

I have read both Haddrick's book on the Hill/Clay case and Kate Kyriacou's excellent book ('The Sting') on the Morcombe case.

In principal, l agree with the comparison you have drawn between the handling of the investigations into Lynn and Cowen BUT...

When police use undercover operatives and in particular enter into 'Mr Big' type stings - as in the Morcombe case - the rules go out the window. They can get away with anything short of murder. This is highlighted in Kyriacou's book and there has been backlash against it at various levels because these operations still involve the use of police but during them they are allowed to lie, deceive, coerce, not read rights when it would otherwise be appropriate, etc.

From Haddrick's book we heard that the police planned on inserting an undercover operative from W.A. into Lynn's life. The stated reason was because they couldn't find evidence Lynn had a friend in the world whom he might confide in while they were 'listening in' on him. So they thought they would 'create' Lynn a friend. Needless to say, this action would have also have provided the investigators freedoms they otherwise would not and subsequently did not enjoy.

According to the book it was only COVID border bans that stopped the sting on Lynn from happening.

This is what we call in Aviation “when the Swiss cheese lines up”.

 

[Sher Lock]

There's an interesting article in the H/Sun today written by Andrew Rule and it describes how a man and his family met GL in the high country and spent a terrified night, wondering if they were going to get out of there the next day alive. Very unnerving story and I wasn't surprised, given what we now know about GL.
Here's the link for those that are able to access it. Perhaps someone who has access can given a condensed version without going against WS Rules.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/andrew-rule/andrew-rule-i-slept-with-a-loaded-shotgun-the-day-a-camper-crossed-paths-with-greg-lynn/news-story/efc43454ae213977e3ac734ff05c644d

 

[JBowie]

Perhaps someone who has access can given a condensed version without going against WS Rules.

In essence, back in 1997, the man fitting GL's description, who said he was in aviation and who talked to himself, deliberately camped very close to the family, set up a bunch of heads from dolls as targets and shot at them with a rifle much to his own glee.

 

[sapphire blue]

AI gist of article - ‘1997 man (cam) and his family set up camp in Wellington River catchment near the junction with Breakfast Creek (east Gippsland region). man in full camouflage arrived in a cream vehicle, set up camp near them, didn’t ask them. Introd himself as Greg claimed in aviation. Unsettling behaviour including shooting mannequin heads while laughing. Cam was afraid for his families safety, kept a loaded shotgun close by that night. Years later he recognised Greg Lynn as that person who scared his family.’

 

[Sir_Loin]

AI gist of article - ‘1997 man (cam) and his family set up camp in Wellington River catchment near the junction with Breakfast Creek (east Gippsland region). man in full camouflage arrived in a cream vehicle, set up camp near them, didn’t ask them. Introd himself as Greg claimed in aviation. Unsettling behaviour including shooting mannequin heads while laughing. Cam was afraid for his families safety, kept a loaded shotgun close by that night. Years later he recognised Greg Lynn as that person who scared his family.’

Seems like a completely reasonable thing to do on a weekend. We’ve all been there.

 

[sapphire blue]

Seems like a completely reasonable thing to do on a weekend. We’ve all been there.

What is a completely reasonable thing to do? Camp close to someone else ? commit unsettling behaviour? Shoot mannequin heads?

or sleep with a loaded shotgun close by?

We haven’t all been there.

 

[JBowie]

We haven’t all been there.

I believe that Sir_Loin was exercising sarcasm.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I believe that Sir_Loin was exercising sarcasm.

Yes that's the way I took it, sarcasm.

 

[sapphire blue]

I believe that Sir_Loin was exercising sarcasm.

I sure hope so. Usually people note when they are using sarcasm

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Tragedy retold in books | Pakenham Officer Star News

The disappearance of Carol Clay and Russell Hill while camping in Victoria’s High Country in March 2020 quickly captured the […]

pakenhamnews.starcommunity.com.au

 

[JBowie]

Tragedy retold in books | Pakenham Officer Star News

The disappearance of Carol Clay and Russell Hill while camping in Victoria’s High Country in March 2020 quickly captured the […]

pakenhamnews.starcommunity.com.au

In her version, Bowles writes: “…posing as gas technicians, undercover police visited several houses in the street, including Lynn’s, saying they were looking for a gas leak.

“They got lucky. Lynn was on his way out and did not want to wait. ‘Just pull the front door shut behind you,’ he told them. They sprang into action, installed the bugs and left.”

The reader has no way of knowing which way it actually happened.

First time I've read that story. It sounds plausible, I guess.

 

[KathPlumber]

In her version, Bowles writes: “…posing as gas technicians, undercover police visited several houses in the street, including Lynn’s, saying they were looking for a gas leak.

“They got lucky. Lynn was on his way out and did not want to wait. ‘Just pull the front door shut behind you,’ he told them. They sprang into action, installed the bugs and left.”

The reader has no way of knowing which way it actually happened.

First time I've read that story. It sounds plausible, I guess.

There’s some pretty loose stuff in Bowles’ book. She gets a lot of info from people several degrees removed, then speculates/extrapolates - a bit like we do here at WS, to be fair! But because her book came out before a lot of stuff was on the public record, by the time I was reading it there were things she was what I’d call “confidently incorrect” about. I’ll have another look at the book and see if I can find/remember what they are.

I’m pretty sure IN THE DEAD OF THE NIGHT refers to a failed attempt to use tradies to install the bugs, so she might have got half the story right.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

There’s some pretty loose stuff in Bowles’ book. She gets a lot of info from people several degrees removed, then speculates/extrapolates - a bit like we do here at WS, to be fair! But because her book came out before a lot of stuff was on the public record, by the time I was reading it there were things she was what I’d call “confidently incorrect” about. I’ll have another look at the book and see if I can find/remember what they are.

I’m pretty sure IN THE DEAD OF THE NIGHT refers to a failed attempt to use tradies to install the bugs, so she might have got half the story right.

Have read 'In The Dead Of Night' and don't recall mention of a failed attempt by tradies to install bugs. From memory, it was more about whether the police techs would be able to do it in a vacant house (perhaps using fake tradie vehicle?) or have to do it 'hot' (with people in the house). It of course ended up being the latter.

Might dig the book out and have a flick back to that section.