GUILTY Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3

[Estelle]

After working for the Antonisse family for six months, the alleged killer departed to join the Dutch Army, but returned when his application was rejected on medical grounds.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/04/16/stephanies-alleged-killers-father-figure-speaks/


Maybe, they are awaiting a report of the Dutch Army as well?

Yes that makes sense too. I had forgotten that he tried to join the Dutch Army. Remember that he would not speak to police? I wonder if he is speaking now or if his brothers or mother have given this information to the Defence. If Vincent knows right from wrong, maybe these reports will be mitigating circumstances only. But the Defence might try to make a case that he is unfit for trial and recommend that he is placed in the psychiatric hospital part of a prison. Is that possible?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

7.21 As a result of being determined unfit to stand trial, a person may ‘end up in a secure mental health facility for periods well in excess of those expected if their case had progressed through the courts’. They ‘will often find themselves in a situation where they are not able to exercise legal capacity, even when the circumstances surrounding the making of the order have changed’.[22]

https://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/eligibility-stand-trial

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...2d43a4607bf641
According to new material presented before The Court i.e. voluminous briefs of evidence including alleged email purchase receipts for a training sword, “flexicuffs”, Viagra, pornography, confirmation for “F..kDate membership’’ and an email with an enquiry about legcuffs.
The catalogue of the brief of evidence includes myriad witness statements, phone and Facebook conversations, the alleged email purchases, which included cleaning materials, forensic statements and what is described as “school alarm activity.”

IMO the issue of mental competence and legal capacity will be interesting in this case. Was Stephanie his 'target' or did he plan to attack a student? The school environment would provide many potential victims for someone with this kind of criminal intent.
VS was employed.He worked at a school full of teachers and students who had a right to safety. His employer had no complaints about his work. VS gained a licence to drive a vehicle and drove on our roads. VS was able to use computers, purchase items from the internet, use Australia Post. VS allegedly planned in advance to restrain a victim and assault them - even learning about the school alarm system. VS allegedly deprived the captured victim of her liberty; he allegedly committed an aggravated sexual assault, then murdered the injured victim. VS allegedly drove the body to Cocoparra National Park where he prepared a bonfire on which he burned the corpse. VS allegedly took photographs of his victim on his mobile phone. VS allegedly stole personal property from his murder victim and posted it to his brother in South Australia.
The depravity of this crime took a degree of planning to execute. My opinion only.

 

[sleuthermelb]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...2d43a4607bf641
According to new material presented before The Court i.e. voluminous briefs of evidence including alleged email purchase receipts for a training sword, “flexicuffs”, Viagra, pornography, confirmation for “F..kDate membership’’ and an email with an enquiry about legcuffs.
The catalogue of the brief of evidence includes myriad witness statements, phone and Facebook conversations, the alleged email purchases, which included cleaning materials, forensic statements and what is described as “school alarm activity.”

IMO the issue of mental competence and legal capacity will be interesting in this case. Was Stephanie his 'target' or did he plan to attack a student? The school environment would provide many potential victims for someone with this kind of criminal intent.
VS was employed.He worked at a school full of teachers and students who had a right to safety. His employer had no complaints about his work. VS gained a licence to drive a vehicle and drove on our roads. VS was able to use computers, purchase items from the internet, use Australia Post. VS allegedly planned in advance to restrain a victim and assault them - even learning about the school alarm system. VS allegedly deprived the captured victim of her liberty; he allegedly committed an aggravated sexual assault, then murdered the injured victim. VS allegedly drove the body to Cocoparra National Park where he prepared a bonfire on which he burned the corpse. VS allegedly took photographs of his victim on his mobile phone. VS allegedly stole personal property from his murder victim and posted it to his brother in South Australia.
The depravity of this crime took a degree of planning to execute. My opinion only.

I agree, Fuskier.

Regardless what this/these Dutch psychiatric assessments say, one does need a certain degree of mental stamina to become a licenced driver (among other things he has clearly been capable of achieving).

I'll tell you right now that I'll be damned upset if he ends up being held in psychiatric confinement. I think he knew what he was doing. Throw him to the wolves, I say.

 

[Karo]

Wouldn't it be preferable that he is placed in a psychiatric facility inside a prison? Does it matter if he is not in a regular prison following a lengthy trial that surely could be a huge strain for her family.

As a result of being determined unfit to stand trial, a person may ‘end up in a secure mental health facility for periods well in excess of those expected if their case had progressed through the courts’.

 

[Estelle]

IMO it is definitely premeditated murder. I also think he would be better placed in a psychiatric facility for life for his own good and for the rest of society.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

IMO it is definitely premeditated murder. I also think he would be better placed in a psychiatric facility for life for his own good and for the rest of society.

For society it seems enough risk to have one of these twins on the loose (after MS' time out). For Anika and Luke too, I think.

 

[Trooper]

For society it seems enough risk to have one of these twins on the loose (after MS' time out). For Anika and Luke too, I think.

I agree... with the proviso that I haven't decided yet which one is the more dangerous. On the face of it, obviously, Vincent is, but to me there is something peculiar about Markus and his degree of involvement in this murder that hasn't given me any confidence of him being a mere accessory after the fact. Legally, that may be all he is, but I expect at this trial that a lot more of the influence and domination between these two men will be made more transparent. Which one is the more dominant, who issues the orders, who follows the orders, who runs the show, who pulls the strings.

Who wasn't allowed home. All that stuff. There are anomalies. Vincent is the one with the supposed mental health issues, yet he has the only car and the steady job. Markus doesn't. Vincent is allowed to live with Luke and Anika, but Markus isn't., not even in the same state. Was Markus actually included in the migration back to Australia? .. Was he living at home when the decision to migrate was made? was the family at that stage migrating away from Markus? You could not go any further away without meeting yourself coming back, really.

Was the communication between Vince and Markus secret or did the brother and mother go along with it as long as it was long distance?. sooo many questions.

 

[Eloise]

I'll tell you right now that I'll be damned upset if he ends up being held in psychiatric confinement. I think he knew what he was doing. Throw him to the wolves, I say.

I've worked in a psych hospital (as admin). They're not a holiday resort.

Imagine spending the rest of your life in hospital, but you can't ever leave. Sound like fun?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree... with the proviso that I haven't decided yet which one is the more dangerous. On the face of it, obviously, Vincent is, but to me there is something peculiar about Markus and his degree of involvement in this murder that hasn't given me any confidence of him being a mere accessory after the fact. Legally, that may be all he is, but I expect at this trial that a lot more of the influence and domination between these two men will be made more transparent. Which one is the more dominant, who issues the orders, who follows the orders, who runs the show, who pulls the strings.

Who wasn't allowed home. All that stuff. There are anomalies. Vincent is the one with the supposed mental health issues, yet he has the only car and the steady job. Markus doesn't. Vincent is allowed to live with Luke and Anika, but Markus isn't., not even in the same state. Was Markus actually included in the migration back to Australia? .. Was he living at home when the decision to migrate was made? was the family at that stage migrating away from Markus? You could not go any further away without meeting yourself coming back, really.

Was the communication between Vince and Markus secret or did the brother and mother go along with it as long as it was long distance?. sooo many questions.

I have decided to think which maybe the more dangerous one: MS and he led his twin. I don't know a pic of VS as an adult man, but MS looks in a challenging way impudent (if I worded what I meant :blushing. - Yes, many many questions and more or less patiently waiting for the developments ... :waiting:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've worked in a psych hospital (as admin). They're not a holiday resort.

Imagine spending the rest of your life in hospital, but you can't ever leave. Sound like fun?

Still somehow unsatisfying in a murder/assault/rape case.

 

[Estelle]

I have decided to think which maybe the more dangerous one: MS and he led his twin. I don't know a pic of VS as an adult man, but MS looks in a challenging way impudent (if I worded what I meant :blushing. - Yes, many many questions and more or less patiently waiting for the developments ... :waiting:

When is that likely to be?

Also I thought I read that Markus came to Australia alone before the rest of the family. If that is true, I wonder if he could have been escaping something which happened in The Netherlands or that he was considered a bad influence on Vincent while there.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 24. Mai 2013
As an Australian I'm biased, but @MirandaKerr is such a beauty. Love her accidental nude shots. #AustralianTreasure #MirandaKerr






Surely I haven't found the most comparable pics of Stephanie and Miranda (there are so many) but I think Steph represented the same type: very pretty with a touch of cuteness.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 3. Apr. 2013
Working on getting a new job, want to move to Sydney or Melbourne in Feb, '14. #needtogetitdone

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 8. Apr. 2013
Maybe moving to Australia permanently next month, it's been a few years... #Australia

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 15. Apr. 2013
Arriving in Australia May 14th-21st, finally for permanent. Need to work my way up to doing something with racing from there!

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 15. Apr. 2013
Amsterdam->Koala Lampur->18gap->Australia :/

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 26. Apr. 2013
33 days until Australia.

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 29. Apr. 2013
One month exactly until I leave back towards my home country for only the second time in 18 years.

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 12. Mai 2013
4:14AM, continuing my run of not being able to sleep well... :/ Another reason for weed to be legal everywhere.

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 22. Mai 2013
Exactly 7 days until my plane to Australia leaves!

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 24. Mai 2013
Just had my last party in #Europe , 5 days until Australia

Marcus Stanford ‏@marcusstanford_ 27. Mai 2013
Well, 48 hours left for packing. Goodbye for the forseeable future twitter.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's been a while since I've been through this thread but was it mentioned somewhere if there was evidence of stalking? Did Vincent have searches on his computer for Stephanie (fb, social media etc), unknown caller ID calls to her phone (mobile and home) originating from his phone, did Vincent keep a record of her movements, photos, personal items etc.
Is there evidence that Vincent or Marcus stalked other women?

TIA

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's been a while since I've been through this thread but was it mentioned somewhere if there was evidence of stalking? Did Vincent have searches on his computer for Stephanie (fb, social media etc), unknown caller ID calls to her phone (mobile and home) originating from his phone, did Vincent keep a record of her movements, photos, personal items etc.
Is there evidence that Vincent or Marcus stalked other women?

TIA

AFAIK there wasn't a mention of stalking (by MS/VS) of Steph or other young women.
I could imagine VS had his eye on Steph for a while and maybe sent MS pics of her to share the secret (??) adoration with his twin Marcus.

 

[pixiegrrl]

nope, no reports of any type of stalking i can recall. I do remember it being reported that they used SS's phone pings to locate her body though (which i found odd, as i thought they would try VS's first?). But eek, this just gave me a creepy thought about social media and wifi at schools. Having a teenager in High School, i understand that the school wifi being available to students and employees is the norm? I know they try and block social media from the students for the most part, but what about the employees? Considering they were living quite poor, i think there's a possible motivation for VS to have been at the school for the free wifi usage perhaps? There's been a lot of speculation as to how he knew she would have been there. I also recall that he was initially detained or was a POI as his description of what he was doing that day didn't add up. I'm pretty sure the police would have immediately done a search as to who accessed the school wifi around the times SS was considered missing, possibly saw VS was there by his wifi login, asked him what he was doing that day, VS lied about being at the school, bang instant POI. I also did a bit of websleuthing (xbox sleuthing actually on him when the initial reports came out about him and even though VS had a gold membership account on xbox, his account said he hadn't accessed it in at least 30 days). No internet on at home, the family is away for the weekend, he's bored, needs somewhere to access the net...

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
Tomorrow is July 1st 2016 folks.

http://www.irrigator.com.au/story/38...-wait/?cs=1524
Steph’s case: painful wait
Arraignment of Vincent Stanford charged with murdering Stephanie Scott stood over until July 1.

Both Vincent and Marcus Stanford's arraignments have now been listed for July 1st 2016.

 

[Estelle]

FYI
Tomorrow is July 1st 2016 folks.

http://www.irrigator.com.au/story/38...-wait/?cs=1524
Steph’s case: painful wait
Arraignment of Vincent Stanford charged with murdering Stephanie Scott stood over until July 1.

Both Vincent and Marcus Stanford's arraignments have now been listed for July 1st 2016.

The link you gave does not work, Fuskier.

 

[Fuskier]

The link you gave does not work, Fuskier.

I tested it Estelle, and it worked for my computer (using Windows 10). It was brought forward from post Number #213. The purpose of bringing it forward was to remind WS that the arraignment for VS and MS was planned for July 1st 2016.

However, I am not able to find a link for VS or MS for the Supreme Court hearing today in the daily law lists.