Australia Australia - Tamam Shud Case - Male, Dec 1948

[Sikkim]

I doubt he was murdered or had any connections to any "official agency"


Why do people always want to make these John/Jane Does into people with glamorous lives....they always turn out to be ordinary people, not spies

 

[Laughing]

I doubt he was murdered or had any connections to any "official agency"


Why do people always want to make these John/Jane Does into people with glamorous lives....they always turn out to be ordinary people, not spies

Most of us do live vicariously -- sometimes by reading on a crime forum....

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[petebowes]

The entire Somerton Man case is based on one assumption, that PC Moss was unable to feel the Taman Shud slip when he searched the fob pocket. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Andreee]

The entire Somerton Man case is based on one assumption, that PC Moss was unable to feel the Taman Shud slip when he searched the fob pocket. It’s as simple as that.

I've read about this case like many others have. And about the slip of paper in the article that you mention. But I am not understanding how the case is based on that one assumption about the paper!? I mean, whether PC Moss was unable or able to feel the piece of paper. Maybe I'm missing something lol, and not informed enough, but ???

 

[petebowes]

Andreee .. If the slip wasn’t in the Somerton Man’s pocket when PC Moss searched it, how did it get there? That’s where you start, then, if you’ve done your homework you might suspect it was planted in the two and a half months the trousers were in the possession of Professor Cleland and outside of police control.

 

[Armalita]

I think the lack of anything from Prof Abbott is quite telling. He’s been quite public and vocal for decades that SM was robin’s father, and hence his wife’s grandfather.

I think he actually found out this is no relation

 

[Armalita]

In my personal opinion is that a lot of people got tunnel vision on this man. My feeling is that this is a average man who was seeking medical attention. She was listed as a Sister back then which is a nurse. My research is over many years. I feel like he is from New Zealand. The clothes were probably 2nd hand along with the book.

 

[kadman]

Kemug, I don’t think the people responsible for hiding his identity were responsible for his death. But then again, I’ll probably change my mind about that before long. The only way through is to question everything, even yourself.

If someone tried to hide his identity, why wouldn't they be responsible for his death?

I doubt he was murdered or had any connections to any "official agency" Why do people always want to make these John/Jane Does into people with glamorous lives....they always turn out to be ordinary people, not spies

Although his clothes were most likely second hand (hence the regular removal of tags), it was a practise for spies to do that, and the second phone number found in the book did have connections to agencies, although was all of that a red herring, I don't know, but if it was, it just generates more questions imho.

I've read about this case like many others have. And about the slip of paper in the article that you mention. But I am not understanding how the case is based on that one assumption about the paper!? I mean, whether PC Moss was unable or able to feel the piece of paper. Maybe I'm missing something lol, and not informed enough, but ???

Because the phone numbers (yes, there were two) in the back of the book (that the slip of paper allegedly came from) connect to Jessica Harkness and the other (not readily publicised) that had links to agencies. The "code" also was in the book, with all its own conspiratorial angles. Without that paper, what connects TSM to anything?

In my personal opinion is that a lot of people got tunnel vision on this man. My feeling is that this is a average man who was seeking medical attention. She was listed as a Sister back then which is a nurse. My research is over many years. I feel like he is from New Zealand. The clothes were probably 2nd hand along with the book.

It's hard to pin anything down on TSM, but I'd have to ask you then, if he was seeking medical attention, what stopped him from going to a health professional? Why do you feel like he is from NZ?

I find it very strange altogether really. If an agency was involved, why even bother to allow the person to be found. You'd expect it would be easier to drop the guy over the ocean from a plane, or down a deep mine shaft, or minced up in a meat grinder and fed to pigs. By what if he actually got a heads up and was trying to get away before being caught? It appears to me that he was definitely the subject of a poisoning, so at what stage would that have happened? Jessica allegedly appeared to be taken aback by TSM's cast, so this maybe makes the whole slip of paper/book/phone number a true connection. Maybe the search of TSM actually was sloppy enough to miss the paper, and the matches.

 

[petebowes]

Kadman, you’ve almost answered your own question ..’ if an agency was involved, why even bother to allow the person to be found?’
My position is that yes, an agency was involved but wasn’t responsible for his death or taking his body to the beach.

 

[Armalita]

If someone tried to hide his identity, why wouldn't they be responsible for his death?



Although his clothes were most likely second hand (hence the regular removal of tags), it was a practise for spies to do that, and the second phone number found in the book did have connections to agencies, although was all of that a red herring, I don't know, but if it was, it just generates more questions imho.



Because the phone numbers (yes, there were two) in the back of the book (that the slip of paper allegedly came from) connect to Jessica Harkness and the other (not readily publicised) that had links to agencies. The "code" also was in the book, with all its own conspiratorial angles. Without that paper, what connects TSM to anything?



It's hard to pin anything down on TSM, but I'd have to ask you then, if he was seeking medical attention, what stopped him from going to a health professional? Why do you feel like he is from NZ?

I find it very strange altogether really. If an agency was involved, why even bother to allow the person to be found. You'd expect it would be easier to drop the guy over the ocean from a plane, or down a deep mine shaft, or minced up in a meat grinder and fed to pigs. By what if he actually got a heads up and was trying to get away before being caught? It appears to me that he was definitely the subject of a poisoning, so at what stage would that have happened? Jessica allegedly appeared to be taken aback by TSM's cast, so this maybe makes the whole slip of paper/book/phone number a true connection. Maybe the search of TSM actually was sloppy enough to miss the paper, and the matches.

We if you have solved it should we keep working on it?

 

[Armalita]

We if you have solved it should we keep working on it?

I was putting my opinion. And I think certain things have been added to this case so much we don't really know facts from fiction only hearsay. Yes we seen pics and basically that's it. The rest has been assumptions. I'm trying to look at it in a different view. It started off the phone numbers were that of a bank and a nurse(Sister). I think he's just a average man. He hid his identity or wallet could have been stolen. After all GAB gave away book.

 

[kadman]

I was putting my opinion. And I think certain things have been added to this case so much we don't really know facts from fiction only hearsay. Yes we seen pics and basically that's it. The rest has been assumptions. I'm trying to look at it in a different view. It started off the phone numbers were that of a bank and a nurse(Sister). I think he's just a average man. He hid his identity or wallet could have been stolen. After all GAB gave away book.

I don't assume to have solved it. I'm just playing devil's advocate most of the time. I really have no idea what to think about this case. Too many unanswered (unanswerable) questions remain.

That second phone number wasn't just for a bank btw. It was connected to several agencies. I think because it went to a main switchboard, where the call could be then connected to one of the several others.

Kadman, you’ve almost answered your own question ..’ if an agency was involved, why even bother to allow the person to be found?’ My position is that yes, an agency was involved but wasn’t responsible for his death or taking his body to the beach.

As per my above response to Armalita, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Too much doesn't make sense. I don't think we'll even know the truth.

 

[Armalita]

I don't assume to have solved it. I'm just playing devil's advocate most of the time. I really have no idea what to think about this case. Too many unanswered (unanswerable) questions remain.

That second phone number wasn't just for a bank btw. It was connected to several agencies. I think because it went to a main switchboard, where the call could be then connected to one of the several others.



As per my above response to Armalita, I'm just playing devil's advocate. Too much doesn't make sense. I don't think we'll even know the truth.

Yes I just recently read on another blog that the other number was some kind of connection co. Like items for sale etc. As well as the bank. It's actually a good example of what I'm trying to say. They didn't give us that info until like 70 years later. I think pieces are put in randomly. Personally to fit more to the spy with a lover theory. I didn't follow that theory. Because today if someone sat down and read the information that people have collected you can see that it's about spies and lover with offspring. And ironically the professor that spent so much time on it is married to grandchild of the lover. It's almost just a story made up and not focused on the UID. I think that this story will lose a lot of attention when they/if they find out the DNA doesn't match the professor's wife. My opinion. I didn't mean to sound snappy.

 

[kadman]

...I think that this story will lose a lot of attention when they/if they find out the DNA doesn't match the professor's wife. My opinion. I didn't mean to sound snappy.

I didn't take offense or thought you were snappy. I've read that Rachel's DNA has connections to the Thompson family, which makes things more bizarre.

 

[petebowes]

There is the possibility that the Somerton Man was an individual whose presence in Adelaide was of such a secret nature that when the SA government found out he had been found dead they pulled out all the stops to hide his identity. Sounds unbelievable? Then perhaps you should take a closer look as to who was employed at the Salisbury Weapons complex, especially those secretly brought into the country from the Nazi V2 factories in Germany after the war. The research is in. It could be likely.

 

[kadman]

...... Salisbury Weapons complex, especially those secretly brought into the country from the Nazi V2 factories in Germany after the war........

This definitely has some merit. 2. The Wiesenthal list of 22 Lithuanian Nazi collaborators ..

 

[petebowes]

Now we’re talking.

 

[Melt71]

There is the possibility that the Somerton Man was an individual whose presence in Adelaide was of such a secret nature that when the SA government found out he had been found dead they pulled out all the stops to hide his identity. Sounds unbelievable? Then perhaps you should take a closer look as to who was employed at the Salisbury Weapons complex, especially those secretly brought into the country from the Nazi V2 factories in Germany after the war. The research is in. It could be likely.

If we go down this path then I’d suggest it was federal/Commonwealth agency/ies and not state government. State govts are not generally involved in national security or international security operations (at least at the organisational level) in Australia.

I have no idea but like @Armalita I think it’s more likely he was an everyday person. I mean statistically that’s what most UIDs are shown to be, once they are identified. Despite some of the truly wacky theories we see sometimes on WS!

 

[petebowes]

Melt71 .. in 1948 the SA state police had amongst their number a detective who was seconded to pursue matters of national security, the poor state of Federal security being as it was until Roger Hollis of MI5 visited in late 1948 and took the first steps in creating an effective national security agency. This is common knowledge and well documented in both literary and historical sources.

 

[Melt71]

Indeed @petebowes the state of national security was pretty dire and in a state of flux until, and even after, ASIS and ASIO were established. Which is why I subscribe to the view that this man is likely just a common guy. The vast majority of unidentified remains that are pursued through genetic genealogy have interesting and sad stories but no great government-sponsored mystery behind them.