Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

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  • #641
Bohemian said:
Someone else? You mean ‘Andrew’ is not Andrew but someone completely different?
.
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sosocurious said:
"They did look for an 'Andrew Norris' but they didn't contemplate any variations – perhaps whether that was his real name
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The statement from BOHII quoted above from post #612 is pretty clear. The Police did not think laterally enough in their searches parameters. I am sure.

Unfortunately the Police had an impossible task. There are any number of possible scenarios. People use middle names as first names, someone can have a foreign version of a name but use an Anglo version, spellings of surnames can vary too, surnames can sound similar, maybe Keli had one name right but another wrong, maybe he did have a completely different name, gave her a false name, used an alias etc.
 
  • #642
Banquo's Ghost said:
I agree that the new evidence found by the BoHI and Meldrum-Hanna is not very strong. There's a rush on now, after Serial the podcast etc, for every media outlet to have a true-crime investigation which changes public opinion. But I'm not sure Tegan Lane was a good case to pick.

There are lots of proven wrongful convictions needing attention, lots of missing people whose families don't have the money or social connections to get help. But I think some people identify closely with Keli Lane - a nice girl from a nice middle-class family who played a nice sport and had a drop-kick boyfriend. So they want to help her as much as they'd want someone to help them if they'd had an unwanted pregnancy. Which is good-hearted and generous of them!

The prosecution should definitely have handed over all the recordings of Keli, and they shouldn't have started proceedings until the police were satisfied they'd exhausted every possible search option. But I'm not sure that's enough for a new trial or a pardon.

The comment by Harry Palmer on this article that Via Marple highlighted for us, raises a good point: Lane's own story (the current version, at least) is that she did not abort in time, was not willing to make the effort to adopt out Tegan properly, didn't make any effort to follow up that Tegan was doing ok with her biological father, and lied for years about the real location of Tegan when it could have established that she was safe and well. Even if she didn't want to raise Tegan, she still had a duty of care which she thoroughly neglected.

I don't believe her story, but if it's true she needs to accept that she is the only one responsible for the situation she's in now.
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Great post BG.

I agree. Keli has been a negligent mother. IMO I too agree she has failed in a duty of care and she is responsible for the situation she is now.

I believe she told lies to cover the fact that she does not want to take responsibility for giving Tegan to a person she actually did not really know that well, a person who she has not kept in contact with, and the fact she has never checked on Tegan's welfare. She is negligent but I still don't think she is a murderer.
 
  • #643
CuriosityKilledtheCat said:
She is negligent but I still don't think she is a murderer.
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I think we can agree that we'd like to see Tegan found and Lane's sentence adjusted to something more appropriate for negligence than murder. It would be the best of the probable outcomes.
 
  • #644
Hypothetically, say Andrew exist and is somehow found but doesn't have Tegan. There is no DNA from Tegan to prove he's the father. It would become his word against hers unless he had a solid alibi for the 14th, etc.
 
  • #645
CuriosityKilledtheCat said:
The statement from BOHII quoted above from post #612 is pretty clear. The Police did not think laterally enough in their searches parameters. I am sure.

Unfortunately the Police had an impossible task. There are any number of possible scenarios. People use middle names as first names, someone can have a foreign version of a name but use an Anglo version, spellings of surnames can vary too, surnames can sound similar, maybe Keli had one name right but another wrong, maybe he did have a completely different name, gave her a false name, used an alias etc.
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o_O He might have lied to Keli.

Well at least she noticed he had a scar on his nose.
 
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  • #646
Banquo's Ghost said:
I think we can agree that we'd like to see Tegan found and Lane's sentence adjusted to something more appropriate for negligence than murder. It would be the best of the probable outcomes.
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Manslaughter can be committed negligently. I still don’t think it is that either.

I am hoping for a pardon as the best outcome. I am not certain that will happen though. Next best, a retrial and she is found not guilty.

Another crime that has a lesser sentence, I can’t agree until I see some evidence of that.
 
  • #647
The Observer said:
Hypothetically, say Andrew exist and is somehow found but doesn't have Tegan. There is no DNA from Tegan to prove he's the father. It would become his word against hers unless he had a solid alibi for the 14th, etc.
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Yes, I agree that there is a huge risk for Keli that if he is found things will not work out for her.
 
  • #648
  • #649
The Observer said:
Hypothetically, say Andrew exist and is somehow found but doesn't have Tegan. There is no DNA from Tegan to prove he's the father. It would become his word against hers unless he had a solid alibi for the 14th, etc.
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Didn't I, Andrew, say that I would never come forward, because of that?;)
(Still waiting for my $1mil reward):D
 
  • #650
  • #651
  • #652
JLZ said:
(snipped for brevity; I may return to the rest of your post later because there is much there that I disagree with)

Just on your points 2 and 3. The "witness" who appears to have been coached was not a witness: did not give evidence at the trial. And I may have missed it, but I don't recall hearing that the judge did not know about the witness swap. Can you please substantiate that this was not arranged with the cognisance of the judge? There is always a lot of argument and negotiation that happens away from the jury, either before or during the trial. Nothing dodgy about it.
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The issue of the trial is irrelevant to point 2. My understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that the witness provided a sworn statement and that this followed coaching. That statement may or may not have been factual (I do not know). If that is the case it is prosecutorial misconduct, regardless of whether the witness appeared at trial and regardless of the accuracy of the statement. It is worth noting that I am using the term to cover misconduct in the prosecution of the case by any of the participants; lawyers, police or ODPP. You may have a point of mitigation (which could affect whether it is seen as relevant to an appeal) if this was the only area of misconduct, since it could be argued that the trial was unaffected. However, it goes to a pattern of misconduct by the prosecution. As for point 3; I agree that there is a lot of argument and negotiation. However I have never heard of bargaining about this type of matter. However, on your point of the knowledge of the judge I must admit I was assuming he would have said if he had known, given the publicity and the inevitability of it coming up in future proceedings. I have not seen such a statement.
My problem with what has happened is the wider pattern of behaviour which suggests an unfair prosecution process. I am not saying whether Keli Lane is guilty or not guilty. But the process is something which must be preserved for the wider good of the legal system, and in this case there seem to be too many abuses of process to maintain the conviction without bringing the wider system into disrepute.
 
  • #653
JLZ said:
(snipped)

This is quite an important point. The appeal court's judgement on Keli Lane is frequently cited in other cases. If it's wrong, it needs to be fixed for the sake of many more defendants than Keli. However, in The Queen v Baden-Clay, the High Court cited with approval the decision in Lane v the Queen. You may, of course, disagree with the High Court, but your chance of prevailing against it is very low.

In Lane v The Queen[53], the Court of Criminal Appeal of the Supreme Court of New South Wales rejected the contention that a count of manslaughter of the accused's child should have been left to the jury as an alternative to murder. The Court held that the jury were entitled to take the post-offence conduct of the accused as evidencing consciousness of guilt of murder. In particular, the Court held that the lies told by the accused "alone were sufficient to provide the evidentiary foundation for an inference that ... she acted with the intention of killing."[54] Their Honours went on to say that the false accounts given by the accused "provide no factual foundation for an inference that the manner in which she killed [her child]" would establish manslaughter by criminal negligence[55].

The Queen v Baden-Clay [2016] HCA 35 (31 August 2016)
paragraph 75; BBM
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I agree with your post which is why I phrased my original post as I did (that I take issue with this ruling). I do not doubt that it can be sustained, merely that it starts a slippery slope. I should add (for information) that my understanding of court procedure is more heavily based on civil cases (having sat through and been an expert witness relating to my career as a director of an insurer), although I have also been involved in criminal cases, mostly fraud. So I do not doubt that I may be wrong on some specifics. But, as I have said, it is the wider pattern in this case which is most concerning.
 
  • #654
alb1on said:
The issue of the trial is irrelevant to point 2. My understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that the witness provided a sworn statement and that this followed coaching. That statement may or may not have been factual (I do not know). If that is the case it is prosecutorial misconduct, regardless of whether the witness appeared at trial and regardless of the accuracy of the statement. It is worth noting that I am using the term to cover misconduct in the prosecution of the case by any of the participants; lawyers, police or ODPP. You may have a point of mitigation (which could affect whether it is seen as relevant to an appeal) if this was the only area of misconduct, since it could be argued that the trial was unaffected. However, it goes to a pattern of misconduct by the prosecution. As for point 3; I agree that there is a lot of argument and negotiation. However I have never heard of bargaining about this type of matter. However, on your point of the knowledge of the judge I must admit I was assuming he would have said if he had known, given the publicity and the inevitability of it coming up in future proceedings. I have not seen such a statement.
My problem with what has happened is the wider pattern of behaviour which suggests an unfair prosecution process. I am not saying whether Keli Lane is guilty or not guilty. But the process is something which must be preserved for the wider good of the legal system, and in this case there seem to be too many abuses of process to maintain the conviction without bringing the wider system into disrepute.
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BBM...
that would kill your point 3, you know. Please look that up for the greater good. Thanks.
 
  • #655
  • #656
  • #657
Well this is interesting:

chris murphy (@chrismurphys) | Twitter

Scroll down to the tweets from October 23 and 24 about Keli Lane.

No prizes for predicting who will be the pro bono lawyer for Keli for the judicial review. ;)
 
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  • #658
Where is Tegan?
 
  • #659
CuriosityKilledtheCat said:
Well this is interesting:

chris murphy (@chrismurphys) | Twitter

Scroll down to the tweets from October 23 and 24 about Keli Lane.

No prizes for predicting who will be the pro bono lawyer for Keli for the judicial review. ;)
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Urgh... That's why I am not on Twitter. A giant community of loud soapboxes.

I am wondering if there are any legal professionals and academics who believe the Lane conviction is appropriate, given the opposing voices are this loud at the moment!
 
  • #660
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