Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[Via Marple]

Keli's friends were definitely not cynics and hard-to-impress like me

 

[Bohemian]

Keli's friends were definitely not cynics and hard-to-impress like me

I’ll see your ‘Bah, humbug!’ and raise you a ‘Yeah, whatever.’ there, VM.

 

[JLZ]

Yeah that's where the author embellishes the conversation in the kitchen. The conversation allegedly happened after she gave birth to Baby 1. She went to Quebec to compete shortly after giving birth in March 1995 so the conversation was between Baby 1 and falling pregnant with Tegan.

I wonder if that was her father's way of telling Keli he knew. And either she couldn't flare back because she didn't want it blown up in front of Duncan, or there might have been the implication that Duncan knew too and wasn't going to acknowledge it. She might not have been sure exactly what was going on. But the point was to pressure her not to become pregnant again.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I wonder if that was her father's way of telling Keli he knew. And either she couldn't flare back because she didn't want it blown up in front of Duncan, or there might have been the implication that Duncan knew too and wasn't going to acknowledge it. She might not have been sure exactly what was going on. But the point was to pressure her not to become pregnant again.

No, IMHO things are not that deep - "simple brain" and "first layer of the onion" kind of people. Robert Lane was a pretty good sportsman. I think it more likely he was worried about Keli's sporting performance. She lost all that weight before going to Quebec and coming back with a silver medal. I think he equates her sporting performance with her weight. It is no more than that. I accept that he did not know anything.

 

[sosocurious]

No, IMHO things are not that deep - "simple brain" and "first layer of the onion" kind of people. Robert Lane was a pretty good sportsman. I think it more likely he was worried about Keli's sporting performance. She lost all that weight before going to Quebec and coming back with a silver medal. I think he equates her sporting performance with her weight. It is no more than that. I accept that he did not know anything.

Well at least he noticed when she lost weight, I suppose. I wonder what he had to say when she started gaining weight again, so soon after having lost it?

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Well at least he noticed when she lost weight, I suppose. I wonder what he had to say when she started gaining weight again, so soon after having lost it?

He probably thought it was due to not training hard enough and drinking too much beer!

 

[sosocurious]

He probably thought it was due to not training hard enough and drinking too much beer!

I wonder what he had to say?

 

[Bohemian]

No, IMHO things are not that deep - "simple brain" and "first layer of the onion" kind of people. Robert Lane was a pretty good sportsman. I think it more likely he was worried about Keli's sporting performance. She lost all that weight before going to Quebec and coming back with a silver medal. I think he equates her sporting performance with her weight. It is no more than that. I accept that he did not know anything.

Not related to Keli’s weight loss and Rob’s remarking on it but I can’t agree with you that the Lanes are ‘simple brains’ and ‘first layer of the onion’ kind of people. It takes some pretty skilful politicking to climb the sporting social ladder and become the power couple on the Peninsula. Rob was a Sergeant at Manly Police Station, in charge of the local foot patrol. Not exactly a job for Officer Plod. He was also a football and surf club influencer. Sandy was the Queen Bee of the Manly social set for quite a while, deciding who was in and who was out. Not Machiavellian behaviour by any standards but, by the same token, requiring some guile wouldn’t you agree?

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I wonder what he had to say?

Honestly, IMO he probably said nothing. Young females and weight gain is a sensitive issue.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Not related to Keli’s weight loss and Rob’s remarking on it. I can’t agree with you that the Lanes are ‘simple brains’ and ‘first layer of the onion’ kind of people. It takes some pretty skilful politicking to climb the sporting social ladder and become the power couple on the Peninsula. Rob was a Sergeant at Manly Police Station, in charge of the local foot patrol. Not exactly a job for Officer Plod as well as a football and surf club influencer. And Sandy was the Queen Bee of the Manly social set for quite a while, deciding who was in and who was out. Not Machiavellian behaviour by any standards but, by the same token, requiring some guile.

Sure, they were social players. They knew how to play the social politics game in Manly. Rob Lane was skilful in getting to a position of influence in the rugby club. Sandy was skilful about climbing the social ladder with the wives and creating a position in the community for herself and her family. No doubt about that. However, this says nothing about how they dealt with the hard emotional issues surrounding this case IMO or maybe it does, in that they were all about how things looked and how that looked to others, and did not delve deeper than that - i.e. "first layer of the onion".

In terms of this case and Tegan's disappearance and who knew what, nope sorry, I do believe it is really simple. No hidden conspiracies; the Lanes didn't know anything about the hidden pregnancies. The simple brain comment came direct from Keli in describing herself. The "first layer of the onion" came from a friend of Keli when describing her parents, so yes, when it comes to exploring emotional issues (not the social influence politics issues).

I firmly believe Robert Lane knew nothing about the hidden pregnancies and reading too much into his comment about the weight gain as some backhanded way of telling her not to get pregnant again is just fanciful.

 

[Bohemian]

Sure, they were social players. They knew how to play the social politics game in Manly. Rob Lane was skilful in getting to a position of influence in the rugby club. Sandy was skilful about climbing the social ladder with the wives and creating a position in the community for herself and her family. No doubt about that. However, this says nothing about how they dealt with the hard emotional issues surrounding this case IMO or maybe it does, in that they were all about how things looked and how that looked to others, and did not delve deeper than that - i.e. "first layer of the onion".

In terms of this case and Tegan's disappearance and who knew what, nope sorry, I do believe it is really simple. No hidden conspiracies; the Lanes didn't know anything about the hidden pregnancies. The simple brain comment came direct from Keli in describing herself. The "first layer of the onion" came from a friend of Keli when describing her parents, so yes, when it comes to exploring emotional issues (not the social influence politics issues).

I firmly believe Robert Lane knew nothing about the hidden pregnancies and reading too much into his comment about the weight gain as some backhanded way of telling her not to get pregnant again is just fanciful.

As I said, quite apart from Rob’s comment about Keli’s weight loss (and any conspiracies), Rob and Sandy were anything but simple-minded or shallow. They may have given the appearance of being such but looks can be deceiving, as we well know from Keli’s duplicity. Quite some complex thought must have gone into the confabulations she told people when she was trying to avoid being unmasked. As far as anyone else’s feelings you may be right. Not much thought for other people was evident—rather, they seemed to me to be very self-involved.

 

[2Hope4]

This case perplexes me. My cousin also claimed to not know she was pregnant, though everyone else knew it. When I spoke to her in private, she admitted she knew, but her parents had forced other siblings to have an abortion so she didn't tell them. Now, she gave birth to a full term baby ONE MONTH after having a huge church wedding. Her Mom helped her dress in the wedding gown. No way she didn't know!

Likewise, I can't see how all the other teammates, and couches didn't know something. One pregnancy, maybe, but not multiple! Denial must be a huge place, because lots were living in it.

 

[JLZ]

deleted

 

[Via Marple]

(Wading in...)
I would be shocked if Dad had actually suspected about a pregnancy that Keli kept as a secret. It would have been such a cruel and mean way of dealing with it. But I guess we will never know.

If there's any importance attached to this, it would be how Keli interpreted his meaning, if she thought he knew; and whether that would later have any bearing on Tegan's pregnancy and birth.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

As I said, quite apart from Rob’s comment about Keli’s weight loss (and any conspiracies), Rob and Sandy were anything but simple-minded or shallow. They may have given the appearance of being such but looks can be deceiving, as we well know from Keli’s duplicity. Quite some complex thought must have gone into the confabulations she told people when she was trying to avoid being unmasked. As far as anyone else’s feelings you may be right. Not much thought for other people was evident—rather, they seemed to me to be very self-involved.

I do agree that they do seem self-involved with the concerns about their social status but yes, they are seem like very caring parents and grandparents and have actually stuck by their daughter and grand-daughter.

Definitely this case is full of looks being deceiving on a multitude of levels. Keli's web of lies, I believe, were herself trying to save herself from embarrassment and trying to retain some dignity despite finding herself caught in 5 unwelcome pregnancies with multiple partners.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

This case perplexes me. My cousin also claimed to not know she was pregnant, though everyone else knew it. When I spoke to her in private, she admitted she knew, but her parents had forced other siblings to have an abortion so she didn't tell them. Now, she gave birth to a full term baby ONE MONTH after having a huge church wedding. Her Mom helped her dress in the wedding gown. No way she didn't know!

Likewise, I can't see how all the other teammates, and couches didn't know something. One pregnancy, maybe, but not multiple! Denial must be a huge place, because lots were living in it.

I have no doubt there are lots of stories such as your cousin's. Fear must be a very powerful motivator in keeping these secrets.

The evidence is that some teammates and coaches suspected.

 

[Bohemian]

I do agree that they do seem self-involved with the concerns about their social status but yes, they are seem like very caring parents and grandparents and have actually stuck by their daughter and grand-daughter.

Definitely this case is full of looks being deceiving on a multitude of levels. Keli's web of lies, I believe, were herself trying to save herself from embarrassment and trying to retain some dignity despite finding herself caught in 5 unwelcome pregnancies with multiple partners.

No doubt they are very caring parents and grandparents. Tragedy can do that to a family.

Keli did not find herself pregnant. She made choices. These events didn’t just happen to her. She was a participant.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

No doubt they are very caring parents and grandparents. Tragedy can do that to a family.

Keli did not find herself pregnant. She made choices. These events didn’t just happen to her. She was a participant.

So Bo are you saying you have no empathy for a woman who finds herself with an unexpected pregnancy?

I am sure there are a very large percentage of woman who engaged in behaviour such as Keli's but did not find themselves in her situation. Just because she was a participant does not mean the outcome was certain. The fathers were participants too.

Keli says she was on the pill. The Prosecution at her trial alleged the multiple contraception failures was due to her alcohol intake, not because of the alcohol itself but because they alleged she was drinking to excess and vomiting and therefore making the pill ineffective. I haven't read any evidence from Keli herself that backs that up at all. From what I understand about that, Keli says she was perhaps not careful enough about taking it at the same time everyday and with her busy social life, training and studies, she probably just forgot sometimes. It happens but it doesn't mean she did it on purpose. The pill is not 100% effective, no contraception is. Unexpected pregnancies happen!

The exact timing of pregnancy cannot be predicted. The exact timing of contraception failure cannot be predicted. Therefore it follows that a young woman can find herself in a situation of having an unexpected pregnancy, and yes, Keli had 5 and that perhaps is a little more unusual but not totally unheard of. The Exposed ABC team have had a lot of woman write to them telling them of similar stories of multiple unplanned pregnancies and even hidden pregnancies. I know myself from personal experience, no one necessarily has to do something wrong to have an unexpected pregnancy more than once. I can also tell you from personal experience that unexpected pregnancies can be bloody tough!!!!

Sorry but I really think the main point I wanted to make anyway, which I did not spell out in exact words, is that there are other reasons for Keli's lies. She lied about multiple matters for all her unwanted babies, not just Tegan, and that does not make her a murderer.

 

[Bohemian]

So Bo are you saying you have no empathy for a woman who finds herself with an unexpected pregnancy?

I am sure there are a very large percentage of woman who engaged in behaviour such as Keli's but did not find themselves in her situation. Just because she was a participant does not mean the outcome was certain. The fathers were participants too.

Keli says she was on the pill. The Prosecution at her trial alleged the multiple contraception failures was due to her alcohol intake, not because of the alcohol itself but because they alleged she was drinking to excess and vomiting and therefore making the pill ineffective. I haven't read any evidence from Keli herself that backs that up at all. From what I understand about that, Keli says she was perhaps not careful enough about taking it at the same time everyday and with her busy social life, training and studies, she probably just forgot sometimes. It happens but it doesn't mean she did it on purpose. The pill is not 100% effective, no contraception is. Unexpected pregnancies happen!

The exact timing of pregnancy cannot be predicted. The exact timing of contraception failure cannot be predicted. Therefore it follows that a young woman can find herself in a situation of having an unexpected pregnancy, and yes, Keli had 5 and that perhaps is a little more unusual but not totally unheard of. The Exposed ABC team have had a lot of woman write to them telling them of similar stories of multiple unplanned pregnancies and even hidden pregnancies. I know myself from personal experience, no one necessarily has to do something wrong to have an unexpected pregnancy more than once. I can also tell you from personal experience that unexpected pregnancies can be bloody tough!!!!

Sorry but I really think the main point I wanted to make anyway, which I did not spell out in exact words, is that there are other reasons for Keli's lies. She lied about multiple matters for all her unwanted babies, not just Tegan, and that does not make her a murderer.

I am far from not feeling any empathy for women who have unplanned pregnancies. And no, as Justice Whealy said, Keli being a liar did not mean she was a murderer. However the jury found she was.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I am far from not feeling any empathy for women who have unplanned pregnancies. And no, as Justice Whealy said, Keli being a liar did not mean she was a murderer. However the jury found she was.

And yes, as the trier of fact the jury was entitled to find that she was. It still does not convince me.

I have read "Nice Girl" in the last few days, and far from convincing me that Keli did this and unlike most people who read it, I am more convinced than ever that Keli did not murder Tegan. I can see the clues that were missed and the gaping holes in the Police investigation from the start. The Prosecution even admitted that the searches the police did were not without doubt and true, it was very hard for them to be without any doubt at all. It still makes me very very uncomfortable that a mother has been convicted of murder on the evidence in this case.

Anyway, I am hopeful that the silence on the Exposed ABC Facebook page is good news that they are busy with genuine leads and tips.