Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

  • #821
  • #822
A great comment in the Exposed group a while ago...

Since Tegan and Andrew cannot be located, is it the next best thing to get Keli out.....
 
  • #823
I’m not sure. Was she an acting police officer or a former one?

I suppose a former(?) AR can make comment. I’m not sure if there is a confidentiality agreement they sign as part of their employment contract. Nevertheless, nothing is foolproof. Also, weren’t the searches completed during the trial in response to Justice Whealy’s ‘directive’?

I’m not sure I agree with your last paragraph. Unless Caro aspires to a career as a professional magician a la ‘Watch me pull this rabbit out of a hat!’
Thought I heard she was a police officer before going over to BD&M. So she should have some idea of police investigations and what was normally done. But asking her about the trial itself... She looked like she was being put on the spot.

The former assistant registrar seemed very confident of her opinion on the trial though.
 
  • #824

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  • #825

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  • #827
Thought I heard she was a police officer before going over to BD&M. So she should have some idea of police investigations and what was normally done. But asking her about the trial itself... She looked like she was being put on the spot.

The former assistant registrar seemed very confident of her opinion on the trial though.
The new article from ABC seems to make it clear that Fiona Avery was a serving a police officer when she was assigned to the Keli Lane investigation in 2005. She was assigned to BDM by being given an appointment as a public servant of the NSW Attorney-General's Department, whose portfolio BDM comes under. It is like the police giving BDM the extra human resources to find what they need, it is a secondment arrangement.
 
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  • #828
What I don't understand from the ABC article released last night is from what search these 163 children were found from and not accounted for by the time the case went to trial?

There were in fact tens of thousands of children who were not accounted for but no one had the resources to cover them all off.

Pages 250 to 251 of "Nice Girl" discusses the first round of the police school searches. The police intended to rely on the birth certificates that schools were required to have copies of when requesting these searches originally. The problem was that the searches actually uncovered that tens of thousands of students born in September 1996 nationwide attending schools without their parents or guardians potentially ever having produced a copy of the birth certificate. The schools had either not asked for a copy or had forgotten to take a copy at the time of enrolment. The police did not have the resources to follow all these up. This is when they decided to narrow the search for females born 12 September 1996. Of course, if "Tegan" was enrolled a different birth date, she would not show up on the narrow subsequent search. They did do a search for the name Tegan Lane and Andrew Morris/Norris which did not come up with anything but I would love to have a copy of the search form. I have read somewhere, which I need to find that it was open to interpretation, and yes, I need to find that reference.

NSW BDM did do extensive searches to cover off the possibility that "Tegan" may have been registered under false details too. They had a dedicated police officer seconded to BDM for this purpose as we have now found out BUT did the other states of Australia do this? There is a statement in the article from Queensland only 4 and a half months prior to Keli being charged that they needed 12 months and 2 full time staff to go through the non-digitised records, I read that as the paper records. I am guessing that it wasn't done as Mark Tedeschi's email to Caro Meldrum-Hanna does not offer any reassurance that this was done at all in Queensland or any other state other than NSW. To directly quote "Out of the 86,430 children whose births were registered in New South Wales as being born in the period 31 March 1996-30 September 1997, not a single one of them could be Tegan Lane under a different name."

There are assurances from Mark Tedeschi that Western Australia and Tasmania had checked all birth registrations for the 12th, 13th and 14th September and none were found to be "Tegan". What about South Australia, Victoria, ACT, Queensland, Northern Territory? These states are not mentioned. Again, the date ranges are narrow here too. There are statements in the details from Marks Tedeschi that indicate that the other states did do very narrow searches.

The searches were extensive, granted but the chances are that something has fallen through the net. Sharon Swinbourne, the former Assistant Registrar of NSW BDM herself acknowledges that something could have slipped through the cracks. She says that there is actually "more evidence about what hasn't been done than there is about what they found, because they didn't find very much." I do wonder what that evidence is but by reading between the lines in all the details of the searches, there are significant gaps. Sure, it is impossible to be 100% but is that good enough as circumstantial evidence for murder?

The simplest explanation is that the birth certificate still might not have been lodged at all even under false details in another state.

And yes, I think "Tegan" could be enrolled at school without one. I did it with one of my children recently!!!! I also have worked out how to get a drivers licence without a birth certificate too. A friend of ours did that recently too. Once you have the driver's licence then it is easier to use that as ID for a bank account. I cannot see how "Tegan" could get a passport without an original birth certificate though as those requirements are very strict.
 
  • #829
That’s all well and good but, in February 2006, didn’t the then NSW State Coroner, John Abernethy, find ‘[t]hat Tegan Lane died on or about 1996.’

Source:


Therefore, during the trial in 2010, wouldn’t Tegan have been legally a deceased person?
Yes, true but not without reasonable doubt.

The relevant paragraphs from the Coroners findings:
"
I am comfortably satisfied that Tegan Lane is in fact deceased.

I have indicated that there is no case against a known person for the homicide of Tegan Lane. I have indicated that there is a possibility that Tegan Lane is alive. Put another way, I could not, on the evidence be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of Tegan Lane’s death.


If I am wrong in my finding, and Tegan is located alive and well, it will of course, be reversed."


It is an open finding as to the manner and cause of her death. That question was not settled at all by the Coroner. Legally, there was still doubt at the time of the trial.
 
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  • #830
What I don't understand from the ABC article released last night is from what search these 163 children were found from and not accounted for by the time the case went to trial?

There were in fact tens of thousands of children who were not accounted for but no one had the resources to cover them all off.

Pages 250 to 251 of "Nice Girl" discusses the first round of the police school searches. The police intended to rely on the birth certificates that schools were required to have copies of when requesting these searches originally. The problem was that the searches actually uncovered that tens of thousands of students born in September 1996 nationwide attending schools without their parents or guardians potentially ever having produced a copy of the birth certificate. The schools had either not asked for a copy or had forgotten to take a copy at the time of enrolment. The police did not have the resources to follow all these up. This is when they decided to narrow the search for females born 12 September 1996. Of course, if "Tegan" was enrolled a different birth date, she would not show up on the narrow subsequent search. They did do a search for the name Tegan Lane and Andrew Morris/Norris which did not come up with anything but I would love to have a copy of the search form. I have read somewhere, which I need to find that it was open to interpretation, and yes, I need to find that reference.

NSW BDM did do extensive searches to cover off the possibility that "Tegan" may have been registered under false details too. They had a dedicated police officer seconded to BDM for this purpose as we have now found out BUT did the other states of Australia do this? There is a statement in the article from Queensland only 4 and a half months prior to Keli being charged that they needed 12 months and 2 full time staff to go through the non-digitised records, I read that as the paper records. I am guessing that it wasn't done as Mark Tedeschi's email to Caro Meldrum-Hanna does not offer any reassurance that this was done at all in Queensland or any other state other than NSW. To directly quote "Out of the 86,430 children whose births were registered in New South Wales as being born in the period 31 March 1996-30 September 1997, not a single one of them could be Tegan Lane under a different name."

There are assurances from Mark Tedeschi that Western Australia and Tasmania had checked all birth registrations for the 12th, 13th and 14th September and none were found to be "Tegan". What about South Australia, Victoria, ACT, Queensland, Northern Territory? These states are not mentioned. Again, the date ranges are narrow here too. There are statements in the details from Marks Tedeschi that indicate that the other states did do very narrow searches.

The searches were extensive, granted but the chances are that something has fallen through the net. Sharon Swinbourne, the former Assistant Registrar of NSW BDM herself acknowledges that something could have slipped through the cracks. She says that there is actually "more evidence about what hasn't been done than there is about what they found, because they didn't find very much." I do wonder what that evidence is but by reading between the lines in all the details of the searches, there are significant gaps. Sure, it is impossible to be 100% but is that good enough as circumstantial evidence for murder?

The simplest explanation is that the birth certificate still might not have been lodged at all even under false details in another state.

And yes, I think "Tegan" could be enrolled at school without one. I did it with one of my children recently!!!! I also have worked out how to get a drivers licence without a birth certificate too. A friend of ours did that recently too. Once you have the driver's licence then it is easier to use that as ID for a bank account. I cannot see how "Tegan" could get a passport without an original birth certificate though as those requirements are very strict.
:eek:
tens of thousands of students born in September 1996nationwide attending schools without their parents or guardians potentially ever having produced a copy of the birth certificate.
That would surely mean more than half of all kids born in Sep 1996, went to school without showing their birth certificate. How do schools even tell if they are Aus citizens? Gee. We are so careless in this country.
Sure, it is impossible to be 100% but is that good enough as circumstantial evidence for murder?
I have previously argued that for proof of a negative, it cannot get to 100%. It has to stop somewhere. But looking at what Mr Tedeschi has just produced, I can see the gaps are indeed quite wide, especially if Andrew's last name was in fact not Morris or Norris.

I have to say though, if Keli did lie about his last name (or the entire name), the lie went back to bite her. The police had to do those searches based on the assumption that she told the truth. Then the Crown had to base their argument based on the result of those searches.
 
  • #831
Yes, that is the finding. It is open as to the place, manner and cause of death. Behind that finding are the comments of the Coroner that are obiter but in my respectful submission are relevant to your point. The Coroner clearly indicated that his finding was not beyond reasonable doubt. The paragraphs I quoted are taken directly from the Coroner's decision too.

Notwithstanding the above, my original question was ‘[...] during the trial in 2010, wouldn’t Tegan have been legally a deceased person?’ Yes or no?

Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty* *Deceased/Not Found*
 
  • #832
:eek:
That would surely mean more than half of all kids born in Sep 1996, went to school without showing their birth certificate. How do schools even tell if they are Aus citizens? Gee. We are so careless in this country.

I have previously argued that for proof of a negative, it cannot get to 100%. It has to stop somewhere. But looking at what Mr Tedeschi has just produced, I can see the gaps are indeed quite wide, especially if Andrew's last name was in fact not Morris or Norris.

I have to say though, if Keli did lie about his last name (or the entire name), the lie went back to bite her. The police had to do those searches based on the assumption that she told the truth. Then the Crown had to base their argument based on the result of those searches.
Yes, what a schmozzle!

I agree that Keli does need to shoulder some of the blame but there are other errors too which are not entirely her fault either. Maybe he also told her a false name. Maybe she should have got to know him better and at least asked this guy to see his driver's licence before she had a fling with him. :oops:
 
  • #833
  • #834
I tracked down a copy of the Allison Langdon's book but could not take it out of the place so made the 3hr round trip to photocopy the best chapters. Ended up photocopying it all lol. Haven't read it yet. Happy to share if people are interested.

Here are the chapter titles:
 

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  • #835
Nurses are interviewed by Allison Langdon and Keli Lane states she left hospital before 12 noon..
 

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  • #836
Keli claimed she saw 'Andrew' about 6 times over a 6 month period. She did sleep over on occasion and that Mel was in retail.

Apparently before police took Keli to Balmain to locate Andrew's apartment she said she "searched for the apartment herself for about half an hour one afternoon with no luck".

Hmmm.

Edited to add: Not in the upload but on the next page... The real estate agent.

Mr Klein was surprised that Keli had said the block looked the same as when she visited back in 1996, because in the meantime it had been sold and in 2003 all of the apartments were renovated.

o_O
 

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  • #837
Hmmm...
What time do they train for water polo? 1:00 am
 
  • #838
The new article from ABC seems to make it clear that Fiona Avery was a serving a police officer when she was assigned to the Keli Lane investigation in 2005. She was assigned to BDM by being given an appointment as a public servant of the NSW Attorney-General's Department, whose portfolio BDM comes under. It is like the police giving BDM the extra human resources to find what they need, it is a secondment arrangement.

No, the article doesn’t make that clear to me at all:

Fiona Avery was a former policewoman in Sydney's northern beaches before she was assigned to the Lane investigation in 2005 in the NSW Attorney-General's department to search for Tegan and "Andrew".’

Keli Lane murder trial: New evidence shows search for baby Tegan incomplete - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
  • #839
Deleted.
 
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  • #840
No, the article doesn’t make that clear to me at all:

Fiona Avery was a former policewoman in Sydney's northern beaches before she was assigned to the Lane investigation in 2005 in the NSW Attorney-General's department to search for Tegan and "Andrew".’

Keli Lane murder trial: New evidence shows search for baby Tegan incomplete - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Yeah, I thought it was saying she was a police woman and changed her employment. I wonder if she was at Manly Police station between 1999 and 2002, when the investigation kicked off was suspended and kicked off again?
 
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