Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, 31 May 2019 #4

[zacz]

Despite the investigators and the family hinting that the police didn't follow up on any leads from what I can see they did investigate all that was mentioned. The only thing that they didn't was the phone 'handshake' but I believe it would be very difficult for them to get a warrant to investigate every phone that was in Byron Bay that night. I do agree that Theo most likely met with someone at the sports ground and was led down the small bushtrack to the beach but after that there is really no evidence to say what happened whether he fell in the water or was attacked is just not clear.

The anonymous tip left on the website about the Nimbin abandoned house which contained Thea's suitcase, while interesting, is not necessarily related. I suspect whomever provided the tip overheard something and may have heard Thea's name and thought they were talking about Theo as the names are so similar. The cases could be related but they could just as likely be unrelated.

 

[SootyForrest]

• They think that Theo's disappearance could be linked with the disappearance of Thea Liddle months later (Thea was later found, deceased) - perhaps same perp(s)?

The big difference is that Thea’s body has been found, Theo’s not so i would say that it is not exactly the same. To me a robbery for both looks unlikely to me due to difference in cases.
Can we link them more?

 

[SootyForrest]

• They think that Theo's disappearance could be linked with the disappearance of Thea Liddle months later (Thea was later found, deceased) - perhaps same perp(s)?

The big difference is that Thea’s body has been found, Theo’s not so i would say that it is not exactly the same. To me a robbery for both looks unlikely to me due to difference in cases.
Can we link them more?

 

[SaintGertrude]

The episode is now available for overseas viewing:

Thanks for adding the link so overseas people can watch.

I was most impressed by cybersecurity advisor, Nigel Phair and how he could track all the phone data.
Some of the places visited that night like Byron Bay recreational ground and Arakwal National park were very random.
The terrain of the National park and other places mentioned are quite dense and as it was mentioned it must have been a local who met with Theo and walked him that way if it was Theo using the phone.

The case of Thea Liddle who was previously missing then found deceased could well be linked unless the pub conversation someone heard about some of Theo Hazez belongings also being at the house was misunderstood. There is nothing to indicate any of his belongings were missing apart from his phone and the clothes Theo was wearing the night he vanished.
There is always the possibility that maybe Thea knew what happened to Theo and got herself killed in the process.
I was surprised that the investigators went to the derelict house and picked things like the letter up without gloves as leading towards the inquest this may turn into a homicide investigation. When the police were initially told about the house why did they not bag everything up or do they believe that Thea Liddle died of natural causes?.

 

[SaintGertrude]

The investigation team said it "has to be a local to know the route".
Is there anywhere we can look that shows the actual route taken which was compiled by Nigel Fair

This is the route recommended from Cheeky Monkey bar and it seems that the Recreatonal Grounds are not really that far at all. Nothing strange there apart from the 7 minutes lapse.

Cheeky Monkey hostel to Arakwal National park showing terrain. (The recreational grounds are a bit further to the right but the route looks pretty much the same as it would from the bar)

 

[SaintGertrude]

Now the route gets very odd after Tallow Beach so if there is no compiled map we can view maybe a sleuth on here can do some kind of timeline and maps showing the areas.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Arakwal National Park
The government of New South Wales signed a historic treaty with the Arakwal people back in 2001 which recognised their ownership of this particular area of ground, their heritage. One of these is the stunning Arakwal National Park.

Could 31st May 2019 have been some kind of celebration date for these or some another group of people. Byon Bay appears to be a haven for different cultures and alternative religion. Was Theo interested in other cultures and would have wanted to join in with something. The club found on the beach still puzzles me.

 

[Guesswork]

I am by no means an expert but some things I think are odd about the entire story.

First I have heard theo "runs" part of the trip? I find this odd.

As a man who has spent some nights out I ask myself what are the reasons I have run?

If we exclude psychotic running for no reason as it appears Theo was somewhat sound of mind then I have two situations I have commonly jogged/run on a night out.

1. If I absolutely know I am late for something. Very obvious but would imply you have a time to reach a destination. You can only be late when involved in activities with others.

2. The other is more common and is simple. Many times walking with others on a cold night after drinks one gets the urge to take a "leak". As a guy you walk someway away from the others and do it. Often the group continues to walk as it is cold. Many times you will jog to catch back up.

Both situations in my mind need others to be involved and I think almost any situation one can think of involves others - if we exclude psychosis.

Of course running from others or being chased is possible but why head away from town? To me it seems Theo willingly followed. Which brings me to another point. To willingly follow one must feel somewhat safe. Which increases the likelihood he knew the people he was walking with. However, another scenario where a young man would feel somewhat safe and involve strangers is if a women was involved. Now we know a troubled young women was found dead in a similar situation. The question is did she know what happened or was she the sole witness? My last paragraph is all an assumption.

 

[Guesswork]

I wonder too.

Was Theo using dating apps? These are often encrypted and an easy way to meet a very diverse crowd. I wonder too if Thea Liddle was using them? Either way maybe it was a meet at the rec reserve and follow with the promise of sex. The wifi hand shake is odd and suggests the need to transfer technological data or money. Maybe this failed and is why conflict broke out? But the pauses in time and standing still could support a sexual interaction. And maybe Thea/Women had a guy nearby to act as muscle if anything went wrong, which it did. Finally, the phone is carried overland in an odd route. Was the phone left with women, the same person who knew the track to the beach also knew you could transverse the rocks if needed and did so the next day. Whilst, Theo was taken in the conflict during the night and never seen again.

If I were police I would be asking if either of these people were seen on dating apps remembering a lot of people use fake names.

Furthermore, theo was in brisbane. Women is from brisbane. He never told anyone he was going to Byron Bay. Was the trip organised by a Tinder match in Brisbane?

This is all speculation but it is important to recognise how much young people often communicate via encrypted apps and that messages and whatsapp alone are not enough to follow people. I personally have made many rendezvous via dating apps no one in my life would ever have known of.

 

[T-dawg420]

Did anyone get the suspicion that the tv program was a direct communication with what the family believes is the perpetrator/s of whatever happened to Theo that night? It’s almost like they were saying, we know where he went that night, we know he wasn’t alone, we know he didn’t end up in the water etc. the reason for this is basically when you have no concrete evidence to present to a jury but you are basically trying to get them scared enough so they turn and release any information they have on Theo’s disappearance. Quite often it is to save their own arse!

I haven’t posted in a long time, I took a trip to Byron to help search, I walked the exact path and I took pictures and posted on here. I walked it during the day, and going “off” the Milne track isn’t that hard. It’s kinda like a straight line as opposed to the Milne track that veers off to the right. Once you walk onto the fire trail off the Milne track you eventually get to a cross section, you can left, right, straight ahead of practice go back. Theo ps phone went right, into what can be described as dense bush land, the track was almost covered and going right was the pathway with most resistance if that makes sense. And if you turn left instead of right, tallow beach road is about 50 meters or so from the very spot! Why turn right? Why not go left to the road? I mean he ended up at cosy corner, why go a really dangerous route in the middle of the night?

I have to add that during the day finding a way through that dense scrub was hard enough! We saw a camp seep in the bush too, I believe it was Tommy’s camp.

it’s a path that really needs to be walked to fully comprehend the extent of potential danger of it, esp at night!

also I wanted to add that when I was in cosy corner, my GPS signal said I was halfway up the hill, when I was in fact in the beach. I tried to climb the hill, anyone who has been there knows there is a hang gliding platform at the top of the hill, that’s the way I climbed, not towards the lighthouse (I did that later on). It was way too steep to climb and there was a massive lantana patch (I think, it was thorny stuff, real thick).

 

[Occula]

I wonder too.

Was Theo using dating apps? These are often encrypted and an easy way to meet a very diverse crowd. I wonder too if Thea Liddle was using them? Either way maybe it was a meet at the rec reserve and follow with the promise of sex. The wifi hand shake is odd and suggests the need to transfer technological data or money. Maybe this failed and is why conflict broke out? But the pauses in time and standing still could support a sexual interaction. And maybe Thea/Women had a guy nearby to act as muscle if anything went wrong, which it did. Finally, the phone is carried overland in an odd route. Was the phone left with women, the same person who knew the track to the beach also knew you could transverse the rocks if needed and did so the next day. Whilst, Theo was taken in the conflict during the night and never seen again.

If I were police I would be asking if either of these people were seen on dating apps remembering a lot of people use fake names.

Furthermore, theo was in brisbane. Women is from brisbane. He never told anyone he was going to Byron Bay. Was the trip organised by a Tinder match in Brisbane?

This is all speculation but it is important to recognise how much young people often communicate via encrypted apps and that messages and whatsapp alone are not enough to follow people. I personally have made many rendezvous via dating apps no one in my life would ever have known of.

I have similar thoughts with your theory. In the Under Investigation episode, timestamp of 36.40, You will see the blurred out email of someone who sent information to the site. There is a sentence that describes a man and woman with TH that night. The anonymous tip about the belongings in Nimbin, I believe was from a different source. While it would be easy to mix up or mishear the names, I really wonder if anything of TH was among TL belongings...Did they forensically search through? Surely. I have other thoughts on possible connections...I need to go and read up on TL's thread to refresh first. IMO

 

[T-dawg420]

I’ve just added a few screen shots of google earth.

One pic has a blue and red path I added, the blue arrow is the Milne track, and the red arrow is the path Theo took.

The second pic has one blue arrow, this is cosy corner trail, and you can get a car down there. Also when I walked it there was a camp at the end of the trail deep in the bush. (Not Tommy’s camp, that’s back down on the red arrow path Theo took)

the third pic has a blue line and yellow line, this marks the 2 climbs I did, one towards the hang gliding platform, and the other going up the goat tracks to the lighthouse. Both quite dangerous during the day,

 

[Guesswork]

I have similar thoughts with your theory. In the Under Investigation episode, timestamp of 36.40, You will see the blurred out email of someone who sent information to the site. There is a sentence that describes a man and woman with TH that night. The anonymous tip about the belongings in Nimbin, I believe was from a different source. While it would be easy to mix up or mishear the names, I really wonder if anything of TH was among TL belongings...Did they forensically search through? Surely. I have other thoughts on possible connections...I need to go and read up on TL's thread to refresh first. IMO

I agree I think it accounts for why a young man like Theo would follow someone down that path. If as his family say he was not heavily into drugs then sex seems more likely. It is also puts him in connection and in the vicinity of some very dangerous people so dangerous that one themselves is dead a few months later (TL). There are a lot of weirdos in Byron but its still more likely that very few are capable of this behaviour. However, TL and her associates seem to be of the sort that seem more likely than the wayward beautiful french backpacker. And TL just so happens to be camping and know this area enough to die there. It is an odd coincidence.

The problem is a lot of time passes before this possible connection is or has ever been made.

 

[T-dawg420]

Also just to add, is it too much of a coincidence that Theas body was found near where Theo was last known to be. A tip off that directly links both Theo and Thea......

coincidence?.... I ain’t buying it one bit.

 

[Occula]

Did anyone get the suspicion that the tv program was a direct communication with what the family believes is the perpetrator/s of whatever happened to Theo that night? It’s almost like they were saying, we know where he went that night, we know he wasn’t alone, we know he didn’t end up in the water etc. the reason for this is basically when you have no concrete evidence to present to a jury but you are basically trying to get them scared enough so they turn and release any information they have on Theo’s disappearance. Quite often it is to save their own arse!

I haven’t posted in a long time, I took a trip to Byron to help search, I walked the exact path and I took pictures and posted on here. I walked it during the day, and going “off” the Milne track isn’t that hard. It’s kinda like a straight line as opposed to the Milne track that veers off to the right. Once you walk onto the fire trail off the Milne track you eventually get to a cross section, you can left, right, straight ahead of practice go back. Theo ps phone went right, into what can be described as dense bush land, the track was almost covered and going right was the pathway with most resistance if that makes sense. And if you turn left instead of right, tallow beach road is about 50 meters or so from the very spot! Why turn right? Why not go left to the road? I mean he ended up at cosy corner, why go a really dangerous route in the middle of the night?

I have to add that during the day finding a way through that dense scrub was hard enough! We saw a camp seep in the bush too, I believe it was Tommy’s camp.

it’s a path that really needs to be walked to fully comprehend the extent of potential danger of it, esp at night!

also I wanted to add that when I was in cosy corner, my GPS signal said I was halfway up the hill, when I was in fact in the beach. I tried to climb the hill, anyone who has been there knows there is a hang gliding platform at the top of the hill, that’s the way I climbed, not towards the lighthouse (I did that later on). It was way too steep to climb and there was a massive lantana patch (I think, it was thorny stuff, real thick).

BBM. Yes I also thought the same. There were a few comments that perked my ears. It's amazing that you were able to travel and search, your descriptive post helped a lot...Thank You for Your efforts I need to go back and catch up on the previous thread...I have a lot of reading to do tonight.

 

[T-dawg420]

Just for a bit of perspective, here are some google earth pics of the area Theo’s phone was last known to be. It’s cosy corner, one pic is from the hang gliding platform.

just imagine going there at night on your own? There are no lights down there, it go so dark when I was there I almost missed the cosy corner car park.

 

[Guesswork]

Just for a bit of perspective, here are some google earth pics of the area Theo’s phone was last known to be. It’s cosy corner, one pic is from the hang gliding platform.

just imagine going there at night on your own? There are no lights down there, it go so dark when I was there I almost missed the cosy corner car park.

IMO you go there to take/buy drugs or to have sex sometimes both.

 

[T-dawg420]

IMO you go there to take/buy drugs or to have sex sometimes both.

I get that. As I said when I walked the cosy corner tail at the end there was a camp but I didn’t go near it. So I know personally that people camp down in cosy corner deep in the bush. I wonder if Theo met with someone and went back to their camp?

Also, when I was there I saw at least 4 people fishing on the rocks, so I know people can make it out there, I wonder if they can make it around the bend on a low tide without having to go up to the lighthouse?

 

[Occula]

I agree I think it accounts for why a young man like Theo would follow someone down that path. If as his family say he was not heavily into drugs then sex seems more likely. It is also puts him in connection and in the vicinity of some very dangerous people so dangerous that one themselves is dead a few months later (TL). There are a lot of weirdos in Byron but its still more likely that very few are capable of this behaviour. However, TL and her associates seem to be of the sort that seem more likely than the wayward beautiful french backpacker. And TL just so happens to be camping and know this area enough to die there. It is an odd coincidence.

The problem is a lot of time passes before this possible connection is or has ever been made.

ITA I thought maybe a weed purchase connection with whats app being used, but whatever type of 'hookup', The UI program mentioned that Cosy Corner was often used for a out of the way place to drink/party etc and that may be why TH was led there, with a promise of a bit of this or that. What then? The big question...Hopefully a clearer picture will start to emerge with is new info. TL's campsite and death...IMO is not a coincidence...I'll leave my thoughts on that until I've fully caught up on both threads.

 

[T-dawg420]

This is where I saw the camp.