Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Jenz]

And the tide graph..

 

[srper2]

And the tide graph..
View attachment 203131

Thank you for these, they could be very helpful! I am not good at it (I always go to the beach at the wrong tide times!), but somebody may be able to work out the tide level on the rocks at the approximate times Theo was thought to be in the area and match with currents and have a pretty good guess where his body (if he did fall) may have ended up.

 

[srper2]

The mum in the other case had started a petition :
Warning signage urgently needed at Cape Byron / Cosy Corner goat track | CommunityRun

She made an update 2 months ago. Firstly her son had survived his injuries, so that's good news. Second, as of early June, there still weren't enough signage around the place.

I wonder where exactly that "goat track" is?

The other point you make is interesting - see bolded - I don't seem to see it mentioned anywhere, that the police has returned to that spot to further investigate. They aren't saying what they may be doing at the desk, but if they are on the 'field', that would be noticeable .

Edit to complete the post due to fat fingers

I think the "goat track" they refer to is a narow and steep track running up from cosy corner beach onto the cliff above, it looks like if you follow it, you can walk up the cliff area and get to the lighthouse above, but it leads you to a slippery dusty rock face, which you cannot get back down from (but the goats could!). In some pics of the beach area you can almost see a track going up the cliff, but I can't find a suitable one I can download as I am not sure about copyrights! This site has some aerial pics of cosy corner that show just how steep the cliffs are and the dangerous rocks below SW0782 - Cosy Corner Also this is a pic of the rescue of the boy who fell while following a track No Cookies | The Weekly Times If someone fell or was washed into a crevice between the huge rocks, they would be extremely difficult to find. Sometimes a small area can be searched multiple times and then much later something significant is found that was just not found previously. Unfortunately, they had so many people in the area searching that any evidence or footprints or broken vegetation around the cliffs area they may have been able to find in a search would have been walked over very early on. If he did fall, he may have been washed away, but if somebody searched the cape cliffs with detail (which they already may have!), his body could very well still be there caught in rocks and covered by scrubby vegetation in an area that could only be seen from the sea or by rapelling into the area.

 

[BusterXP]

The mum in the other case had started a petition :
Warning signage urgently needed at Cape Byron / Cosy Corner goat track | CommunityRun

She made an update 2 months ago. Firstly her son had...

As a result of her campaign more signs were put in place. Some had previously been there but were missing.
It was also revealed that there has been quite a few SES rescues there of people who have tried to climb up the tracks and have fallen.
I think another campaign was started to purchase specialised rescue equipment.

 

[Ms Kite]

I think the "goat track" they refer to is a narow and steep track running up from cosy corner beach onto the cliff above, it looks like if you follow it, you can walk up the cliff area and get to the lighthouse above, but it leads you to a slippery dusty rock face, which you cannot get back down from (but the goats could!). In some pics of the beach area you can almost see a track going up the cliff, but I can't find a suitable one I can download as I am not sure about copyrights! This site has some aerial pics of cosy corner that show just how steep the cliffs are and the dangerous rocks below SW0782 - Cosy Corner Also this is a pic of the rescue of the boy who fell while following a track No Cookies | The Weekly Times If someone fell or was washed into a crevice between the huge rocks, they would be extremely difficult to find. Sometimes a small area can be searched multiple times and then much later something significant is found that was just not found previously. Unfortunately, they had so many people in the area searching that any evidence or footprints or broken vegetation around the cliffs area they may have been able to find in a search would have been walked over very early on. If he did fall, he may have been washed away, but if somebody searched the cape cliffs with detail (which they already may have!), his body could very well still be there caught in rocks and covered by scrubby vegetation in an area that could only be seen from the sea or by rapelling into the area.

I remember reading somewhere that a specialist drone had been employed. Hopefully it was used to collect footage from around the cliff bases. The detail they can pick up is truly amazing.

 

[espirtu pampa]

I' can't imagine walking there on a moonless night. Is the lighhouse fully functioning ? Could it lit up that area ?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I think the "goat track" they refer to is a narow and steep track running up from cosy corner beach onto the cliff above, it looks like if you follow it, you can walk up the cliff area and get to the lighthouse above, but it leads you to a slippery dusty rock face, which you cannot get back down from (but the goats could!). In some pics of the beach area you can almost see a track going up the cliff, but I can't find a suitable one I can download as I am not sure about copyrights! This site has some aerial pics of cosy corner that show just how steep the cliffs are and the dangerous rocks below SW0782 - Cosy Corner Also this is a pic of the rescue of the boy who fell while following a track No Cookies | The Weekly Times If someone fell or was washed into a crevice between the huge rocks, they would be extremely difficult to find. Sometimes a small area can be searched multiple times and then much later something significant is found that was just not found previously. Unfortunately, they had so many people in the area searching that any evidence or footprints or broken vegetation around the cliffs area they may have been able to find in a search would have been walked over very early on. If he did fall, he may have been washed away, but if somebody searched the cape cliffs with detail (which they already may have!), his body could very well still be there caught in rocks and covered by scrubby vegetation in an area that could only be seen from the sea or by rapelling into the area.

That's really good info. Does anyone know where the hat was found in relation to the goat track?

I recall someone here once mentioned it was found fairly accessible to a track (not sure which track) and not too deep in the bush?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yep I walked along the two tracks. very overgrown. I still think that hat was never there and was put there after the police search. After walking the track i cant see how could been missed

hey mussopossum, you walked the tracks, including where hat was found. Can you share a bit more? Where was it in relation to cliff / goat track?

 

[mussopossum]

hey mussopossum, you walked the tracks, including where hat was found. Can you share a bit more? Where was it in relation to cliff / goat track?

I couldn't comment where the hat was found exactly, unfortunately. I would have to look at maps again. I have all my screen shots of GPS tracking that day I think so will have a look over next few days.

 

[mussopossum]

I find no mention at all or any GPS location being provided. The last mention is of a 'phone ping' only.
Do you have a credible source that refers to a confirmed GPS location?

I'd consider the FAQ to be creditable (excepting that location from a ping may be inaccurate wrt direction) :
"
Theo sent a message to a friend at 12.20am on the 1st of June.
Theo’s phone pinged a tower that encompasses the area from Clarkes Beach to the Lighthouse before 2pm on June 1. Police and search groups are searching for Theo’s phone. Other areas besides this have also been extensively searched."

Wasnt the OPPO phone listed as having the more advanced gps that was very accurate (dual-frequency ). And from my understanding, if Theo had Google maps or any direction based apps or location services enabled (which i am not saying he did as we do not know) but I thought in this case that the phone ping is the actual communication between the tower and the phone itself? I just thought that i have read about the Dual frequency being very accurate from the ping to the gs location on the phone.

Correct me if I am wrong?

 

[Jenz]

My daughter and partner went to Byron a couple of months back. They took some photos of Cosy Corner and in particular around the hill which I thought he may have tried to climb, fallen and taken by the tide. I since thought this may not be the case after seeing the photos and the tide line. I asked them to go there at the high tide for that day and from memory, I think the high tide was similar or a little higher than on 1st June.

I have attached photos they took and as you may notice, it does not appear the tide comes up close to the track up the side of the cliff I thought he may have taken. It looks quite cunfusing, but may be protected from the tide by rocks? Or the cliff itself? I'm not sure. For him to have fallen and been taken by the tide, to me, he would have needed to climb further around the cliff toward the surf.

I hope these photo's can helpexplain what I am saying...
First two photos are - red arrow indicates where photo was taken from; yellow arrow shows second photo. Third photo us the warning sign and fourth photo the sign at a distance showing the cliff, which would be quite dangerous to climb and doubt he would have tried. IMO

 

[Jenz]

That's really good info. Does anyone know where the hat was found in relation to the goat track?

I recall someone here once mentioned it was found fairly accessible to a track (not sure which track) and not too deep in the bush?

I could be wrong but I think the cap may have been found on a track not close to the goat track. The goat track, from what I am understanding is at the headland. Correct me if i'm wrong.
The cap, I think, was found on a track off the beach area.
Do I need to confirm this with MSM reports?
If so delete the post. Unless someone else can confirm this?

 

[srper2]

I' can't imagine walking there on a moonless night. Is the lighhouse fully functioning ? Could it lit up that area ?

There are no lights in the areas that are not close to the carpark, lighthouse and cafe area. This is a nice pic of the lighthouse lit at night: Cape Byron Bay Lighthouse

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Got it:

"The most recent twist in the missing backpacker's case was when a black Puma hat was discovered in bushland about 200 metres from the beach at Cape Byron."

Divers are called in as hunt for Belgian backpacker Theo Hayez moves to water ways around Byron Bay | Daily Mail Online

 

[Deleted member 249471]

When I look at google maps and measure the distance between the area marked 'Cape Byron' and 'Tallow Beach Trail', just off Tallow Beach Car Park, that's 200 meters.

 

[Jenz]

When I look at google maps and measure the distance between the area marked 'Cape Byron' and 'Tallow Beach Trail', just off Tallow Beach Car Park, that's 200 meters.

I was thinking that when you posted the article...200 metres seemed a long way.
It also appears to be around 200 metres from the beach to the car park on a couple of the tracks; Tallow beach track and another unnamed track a little further south.
Wonder if the cap was found near the car park and Theo actually arrived there by car?
Ooops...edited to add...it has not been confirmed it was Theo's cap...

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Ooof, this doesn't look good does it?

We know he left up Kingsley St around 11 pm.

In 30-45 minutes he *might have* reached Tallow Beach Car Park.

*Let’s assume* he used his phone light as he walked the trail to Cosy Corner Beach. Otherwise someone else had light or led the way.

*It’s possible* he didn’t lose hat now as he would have had time and battery on phone to retrieve it. Or maybe he didn’t care?

He *may have* got to beach / campground / accommodation to hang out alone or with others, but he was still well and unalarmed at 12.20 am when he used messenger.

He hung around until 1 am when he opened WhatsApp.

At some point he *potentially* went back through Tallow Beach Trail and lost hit hat now?

Something happens.

His last ping was at 1.40 pm somewhere between Wategos and Lighthouse, according to MSM.

Somehow, walking 40 minutes, losing hat near car park, continuing to walk, hanging out for hours, then falling off rocks even though tide couldn't reach the area doesn't make sense anymore...

Or maybe he was having a really bad day! Argh. I don't know.

 

[Via Marple]

I' can't imagine walking there on a moonless night. Is the lighhouse fully functioning ? Could it lit up that area ?

I would think Tallows Beach and Cosy Corner are very dark at night. I couldn't see the lighthouse from beach in day time. At night, maybe it is a glow behind the hills.

My daughter and partner went to Byron a couple of months back. They took some photos of Cosy Corner and in particular around the hill which I thought he may have tried to climb, fallen and taken by the tide. I since thought this may not be the case after seeing the photos and the tide line. I asked them to go there at the high tide for that day and from memory, I think the high tide was similar or a little higher than on 1st June.

I have attached photos they took and as you may notice, it does not appear the tide comes up close to the track up the side of the cliff I thought he may have taken. It looks quite cunfusing, but may be protected from the tide by rocks? Or the cliff itself? I'm not sure. For him to have fallen and been taken by the tide, to me, he would have needed to climb further around the cliff toward the surf.

I hope these photo's can helpexplain what I am saying...
First two photos are - red arrow indicates where photo was taken from; yellow arrow shows second photo. Third photo us the warning sign and fourth photo the sign at a distance showing the cliff, which would be quite dangerous to climb and doubt he would have tried. IMO
View attachment 203183View attachment 203184View attachment 203185 View attachment 203182View attachment 203186

Thanks so much!

Before I went to "see for myself", I had theorised that if Theo tried to climb up the headland, he would fall back but not all the way to the sea, it had to be too far away. When I went there one afternoon last month, it was also close to high tide. My conclusion was the same. I thought he might have tried to go across the headland though, not going up.

That little sign is bit of a joke!

There are no lights in the areas that are not close to the carpark, lighthouse and cafe area. This is a nice pic of the lighthouse lit at night: Cape Byron Bay Lighthouse

Such beautiful pics

 

[Via Marple]

Sharing a photo too...

Now I see where that little warning sign is. To the right of the dark crevice in this photo.

And I was standing approximately where the last location was in that 'inaccurate' route.

 

[mussopossum]

If anyone would like me to (I am not going to worry about it if not) but I gps tracked locations about 6 weeks ago At Tennyson, Cowper, Carlisle Cosy corner etc whilst looking at the map that was released in MSM. I was trying to achieve what I saw on the map to where I was standing and screenshot the gps location and took photo where I stood. Happy to post this if people want but have to reduce file sizes to do so, so fiddly. If anyone wants me to please let me know and I will do over next few days