Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[mussopossum]

Tommy must know who this person is. imo

I wonder what direction the person who lived(s) in the camp at the end of the beach walks when they want to go into town etc.

The tent is literally on the beach so would imo be so much easier to just walk out there and up the car park and road.

But for someone who might not want to be seen and might not like being around people as so many do they might go through the bush to avoid people and being seen.

If they were to take the bush then they might brush paths with Tommy in the bush.

Like I said previously, most homeless are very aware of who and what are around them IMO

Even if there was no first name basis I’d be surprised if didn’t get a glance of them at some point.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder what direction the person who lived(s) in the camp at the end of the beach walks when they want to go into town etc.

The tent is literally on the beach so would imo be so much easier to just walk out there and up the car park and road.

But for someone who might not want to be seen and might not like being around people as so many do they might go through the bush to avoid people and being seen.

If they were to take the bush then they might brush paths with Tommy in the bush.

Like I said previously, most homeless are very aware of who and what are around them IMO

Even if there was no first name basis I’d be surprised if didn’t get a glance of them at some point.

With the way that Tommy's camp was avoided, I think that whoever was with Theo would have known Tommy.
Tommy seems like a bit of a talker. Perhaps likes a yarn. Even when liking to be alone, people can still get a bit lonely.
If this person was a little 'off kilter' he may even have had a run-in with Tommy at some point ... hence avoiding his camp.

 

[Rocket333]

So, are we looking at something like this? I’m not sure of tent site locations relative to the path, and where exactly the cap fell.

 

[T-dawg420]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

 

[CKTC]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

I've walked this path a few times. Once you hit the camp there, there is no path that takes you through to the beach.

 

[T-dawg420]

I've walked this path a few times. Once you hit the camp there, there is no path that takes you right through to the beach.

I’ll take that as I didn’t venture past there however at the camp there was def a path going the beach way where the camp was when i was there late July. no pics as I said unfortunately but it was seen by me and the other person walking with me at the time.

And there has to be a path going to the beach somewhere there cos didn’t the podcast say the path after avoiding tommys camp, came out to the beach next to the unknown persons camp?

 

[Chiatos]

So, are we looking at something like this? I’m not sure of tent site locations relative to the path, and where exactly the cap fell.

Seems so. I posted a similar map earlier:
Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

 

[Jenz]

Is there a map of that track with Tommy’s camp and the steps taken on the night? I’ve seen the general route map and the 360 image on the lighthouse website. Just wondering if there’s a clearer one with more detail?
That missing beach camper is a major POI. To choose that route whilst pretty much walking blind, divert away from Tommy’s camp in the pitch dark and exit neatly beside his camp is just too direct & obvious.

I'm thinking it was perhaps a worn path round Tommy's camp IMO....
..

Eta...maybe not a "well" worn path...

 

[Chiatos]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

Looking at aerial images of the area around Tommy's camp site, yes, there seems to be a path taking to the beach between Tommy and the car park. Why would Tommy send people to the larger track instead of that path? Because Tommy wants to discourage outsiders to enter into his surrounding bush and because the larger track is more comfortable for ant outsider.

You also say: I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he (Theo) did purposefully avoid it (Tommy's camp).
It does seem that he avoided it, or at least, the person he was with avoided it. Makes sense if that person would have been Tommy's neighbour living at the abandoned site. Theo / Theo's phone would not have had to "see" Tommy's camp in order to avoid Tommy's camp.
Tommy's neighbour mister X would be able to avoid the camp blind folded.

 

[espirtu pampa]

Looking at aerial images of the area around Tommy's camp site, yes, there seems to be a path taking to the beach between Tommy and the car park. Why would Tommy send people to the larger track instead of that path? Because Tommy wants to discourage outsiders to enter into his surrounding bush and because the larger track is more comfortable for ant outsider.

You also say: I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he (Theo) did purposefully avoid it (Tommy's camp).
It does seem that he avoided it, or at least, the person he was with avoided it. Makes sense if that person would have been Tommy's neighbour living at the abandoned site. Theo / Theo's phone would not have had to "see" Tommy's camp in order to avoid Tommy's camp.
Tommy's neighbour mister X would be able to avoid the camp blind folded.

Why would Théo try to avoid Tommy's camp ? He couldn't even have known of Tommy's existence, could he ? Unless you mean Théo saw the camp.

 

[Chiatos]

Why would Théo try to avoid Tommy's camp ? He couldn't even have known of Tommy's existence, could he ? Unless you mean Théo saw the camp.

The person Theo would have been with, would have avoided Tommy's camp.
Not Theo. Theo just followed the person.

 

[Rocket333]

I'm thinking it was perhaps a worn path round Tommy's camp IMO....
..

Eta...maybe not a "well" worn path...

Agreed. Why go to that bother when there’s far easier choices.
Tommy also said he has a solar light placed on the other side of his tent/camp that’s not visible to anyone on the path.

 

[Rocket333]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

I remember your pics and your post. I’ve also seen that eviction notice sign posted online somewhere else and will try to find it. My take is that Tommy sends them out onto the public tracks to get them out of his backyard and space. I doubt he’d like too many venturing near his camp and is probably grateful it’s a tricky location. He’d be aware of everyone and everything around him for sure. Would it be noisy walking that path at night? You’d think Tommy would hear people crunching through.

 

[SouthAussie]

So, are we looking at something like this? I’m not sure of tent site locations relative to the path, and where exactly the cap fell.

I love your little pics representing the camps etc.

 

[Rocket333]

I love your little pics representing the camps etc.

Haha thanks, I’m visual so I process through pictures. I think Tommy’s tent is on the wrong side (attached amended map) and I’m not sure which side the cap was found.
Do you reckon Tommy himself may have made or helped design that beach path?

 

[mussopossum]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

Hey T

Just FYI on the photo posting, mine are always to big to post off my phone so I just screenshot (on your phone) the ones I want to post and they seem to upload as .png files easily. Thus why my images always look weird when I post them

 

[mussopossum]

I’ll take that as I didn’t venture past there however at the camp there was def a path going the beach way where the camp was when i was there late July. no pics as I said unfortunately but it was seen by me and the other person walking with me at the time.

And there has to be a path going to the beach somewhere there cos didn’t the podcast say the path after avoiding tommys camp, came out to the beach next to the unknown persons camp?

The one thing I noticed yesterday that the grass and bush was quite pushed down. The areas were searched extensively with many volunteers and police and I am wondering if when you went it had not had as many people through searching and disturbing the grass etc.

This might have shown back then some sort of worn area / path that is not so easily seen now due to the searches. JMO

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Is there a map of that track with Tommy’s camp and the steps taken on the night? I’ve seen the general route map and the 360 image on the lighthouse website. Just wondering if there’s a clearer one with more detail?
That missing beach camper is a major POI. To choose that route whilst pretty much walking blind, divert away from Tommy’s camp in the pitch dark and exit neatly beside his camp is just too direct & obvious.

Completely agree.

 

[mussopossum]

I love your little pics representing the camps etc.

So do I, made my morning. A+ for great effort Rocket

 

[SouthAussie]

Haha thanks, I’m visual so I process through pictures. I think Tommy’s tent is on the wrong side (attached amended map) and I’m not sure which side the cap was found.
Do you reckon Tommy himself may have made or helped design that beach path?

When I zoom in tight onto that whole area, there seems to be a lot of gaps between the shrubs and vegetation. Very common in sandy areas (at least, in the lantana-free spots in that area).
I would imagine that the homeless living in that area would have found the easiest ways through the vegetation and their own little walkways slowly would have formed.

I can understand Tommy directing people away from 'their' zone. Nobody wants people consistently walking through 'their' back yard. It is public land, but in time the homeless would become territorial about their squat zones. imo