Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Rocket333]

When I zoom in tight onto that whole area, there seems to be a lot of gaps between the shrubs and vegetation. Very common in sandy areas (at least, in the lantana-free spots in that area).
I would imagine that the homeless living in that area would have found the easiest ways through the vegetation and their own little walkways slowly would have formed.

I can understand Tommy directing people away from 'their' zone. Nobody wants people consistently walking through 'their' back yard. It is public land, but in time the homeless would become territorial about their squat zones. imo

Yes, for sure. Tommy would know and use that path, especially having lived there for years. He’d know the unidentified beach camper too. I wonder if he has actually revealed more that hasn’t been disclosed to us yet? He’d have to know more and surely the podcast crew would’ve realised that and nudged him more about it?

That beach camp used newish materials possibly purchased in town. I also wonder if they’ve checked the hardwares or camping gear shops (ropes & tarps). Someone will absolutely know who he is and possibly where he is.

 

[Rocket333]

When I zoom in tight onto that whole area, there seems to be a lot of gaps between the shrubs and vegetation. Very common in sandy areas (at least, in the lantana-free spots in that area).
I would imagine that the homeless living in that area would have found the easiest ways through the vegetation and their own little walkways slowly would have formed.

I can understand Tommy directing people away from 'their' zone. Nobody wants people consistently walking through 'their' back yard. It is public land, but in time the homeless would become territorial about their squat zones. imo

Yes, for sure. Tommy would know and use that path, especially having lived there for years. He’d know the unidentified beach camper too. I wonder if he has actually revealed more that hasn’t been disclosed to us yet? He’d have to know more and surely the podcast crew would’ve realised that and nudged him more about it?

That beach camp used newish materials possibly purchased in town. I also wonder if they’ve checked the hardwares or camping gear shops (ropes & tarps). Someone will absolutely know who he is and possibly where he is.

 

[mussopossum]

I originally thought that there would be no way that Theo could pass this last campsite on the beach without him seeing it and them seeing him.

After walking through the map area and my gps yesterday when I ventured to this spot, the tent / camp is almost sunken to where the map and locations show that he walked.

It is easily seen standing on the beach but not as easily certain positions in the bush.

Theos gps data on the MSM map shows him veer to the left instead of stepping straight onto the beach.

I wondered if he had gone around to avoid this camp site but even in the day time it is so easy to miss as it is sunken and on the other side of some trees.

So at night, I can't imagine he would have even seen it unless was a light on and he could hear someone there.

But why did he not just keep walking straight onto the sand? (Red arrow) Even in the dark you would see the increase in sand volume and hear the waves but he has veered slightly left and appears to walk through the edge of the bush still until he finally gets on the beach. I could not see any reason to veer to the left for the exit to beach other than avoiding that second camp.

Like I said it is pretty well hidden.

 

[mussopossum]

Why would Théo try to avoid Tommy's camp ? He couldn't even have known of Tommy's existence, could he ? Unless you mean Théo saw the camp.

Unless Theo was with somebody IMO

 

[Aron.Wor]

I’m going to try and articulate some thoughts I’ve had about Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp. Bare with me..

I walked that exact route of the gps map that was put up in the Australian when I went to byron. I’ve put pics up of the T junction at the end of the fire trail, where I think Sheri on the podcast ponders why he didn’t go left cos tallow beach Rd was not far away (I can back that up, I was shocked how close it was).

I went right and followed the map, I went past the sign telling of Tommy’s eviction (took a pic, says it’s too big when I tried to post it here?) and it was after continuing on for a little while is the part of this that’s kinda been bothering me. I’m pretty sure I ran into Tommy’s camp! Could have been someone else’s cos I didn’t meet anyone (being honest I panicked at the time, cos it’s so very isolated at that point when I saw the camp I freaked and just turned back and hightailed it back to the T junction)

But back to the camp.. after walking into what seemed like a dead end, at least the path directly straight was blocked by big trees, I was under a complete canopy, could not see direct sunlight. I stoped, looked around to my left and if on a clock me facing straight ahead looking at the trees about 5-10 meters away was 12 o’oclock, then I actually saw a path that seemed to be going straight towards beach, this was about 10’oclock. Honestly I dont know why but at that moment I turned around facing approx 3 o’clock ( from the original 12 oclock) there was an in use camp (there was a clothesline erected and clothes hanging on it). That’s when I freaked!

I really wish I had taken a pic at that moment because now I’m wondering if it wasn’t Theo’s phone avoiding Tommy’s camp on purpose? Maybe the person just walked into the dead end, had a look around (wish I New how much distance he doubled back, cos I cant remember too many other paths going left apart from the one i saw just left of the dead end), then doubled back and then saw the path on the left, and just take that and by pure happenstance never sees Tommy’s camp?

I know tommy had a light and he used it but do we know if he used it all the time and if he had it on that particular night? Maybe at that time he didn’t have it on? maybe at the dead of night he could hear someone coming and he switches light off?

Sorry for the massive post, and I could be completely wrong on this, but I’m just not 100% sold theos Phone ever saw Tommy’s camp. I’ve walked the path, if it’s where I think they are talking about, there’s a plausible reason to double back and go left at that point other than seeing or avoiding Tommy’s camp. Maybe that’s why Tommy’s camp is back on the right a bit? Cos the only path to take to get to the beach is on the left?

In saying that though...tommy said if he sees people down in that section he sends them back to go right down to tallows beach carpark. Remember that in the podcast? Why send them back that way?

Why not send them straight through that path out to the beach? Im sure if he’s been there a while he would have seen the path going leading past the dead end that I assumes leads out to the beach? Why not send them that way? Why send them back out to the T junction?

Thanks if you made it this far lolz, I’m not saying he didn’t purposefully avoid Tommy’s camp, I just don’t think 100% at this stage IMO he did purposefully avoid it.

Hey, just be safe guys. Try to take a buddy. It's more than likely nothing will happen and you'll be fine, but do travel and sleuth with a friend.

 

[Rocket333]

Unless Theo was with somebody IMO

Just to clarify, when you exit the bush path:

1. that beach camp is on the left?
2. Theo veered left upon exit?
3. Theo then veered to the beach and headed north?

 

[mussopossum]

Just to clarify, when you exit the bush path:

1. that beach camp is on the left?
2. Theo veered left upon exit?
3. Theo then veered to the beach and headed north?

The spot I was according to Theos GPS map in MSM the bush camp was on the right when you were heading towards the beach and according to the data he veered to the left instead of stepping straight onto the beach.

As we know the MSM may not be 100% accurate as well

 

[SouthAussie]

The spot I was according to Theos GPS map in MSM the bush camp was on the right when you were heading towards the beach and according to the data he veered to the left instead of stepping straight onto the beach.

As we know the MSM may not be 100% accurate as well

We also know that the GPS may be up to plus/minus 3 metres out in accuracy.

 

[T-dawg420]

Hey, just be safe guys. Try to take a buddy. It's more than likely nothing will happen and you'll be fine, but do travel and sleuth with a friend.

I totally agree. Esp going into something so isolated. That’s why I went with one other person at the time. Just in case something bad happens!

And by bad I don’t just mean maybe you might be attacked or run into trouble with someone. There’s also things like snakes, hazards to trip of over causing possible injury!

Definitely take company

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, for sure. Tommy would know and use that path, especially having lived there for years. He’d know the unidentified beach camper too. I wonder if he has actually revealed more that hasn’t been disclosed to us yet? He’d have to know more and surely the podcast crew would’ve realised that and nudged him more about it?

That beach camp used newish materials possibly purchased in town. I also wonder if they’ve checked the hardwares or camping gear shops (ropes & tarps). Someone will absolutely know who he is and possibly where he is.

I sincerely hope that Tommy has revealed whatever he knows to the police.

 

[Rocket333]

The spot I was according to Theos GPS map in MSM the bush camp was on the right when you were heading towards the beach and according to the data he veered to the left instead of stepping straight onto the beach.

As we know the MSM may not be 100% accurate as well

More like this?

Are both camps on the right of the path taken?

 

[T-dawg420]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

 

[CKTC]

I’ll take that as I didn’t venture past there however at the camp there was def a path going the beach way where the camp was when i was there late July. no pics as I said unfortunately but it was seen by me and the other person walking with me at the time.

And there has to be a path going to the beach somewhere there cos didn’t the podcast say the path after avoiding tommys camp, came out to the beach next to the unknown persons camp?

Once you hit Tommy's camp there are a few random wallaby paths that don't lead anywhere. I think the podcast meant that Theo's path avoided Tommy's camp and came out at the bush near the second camp. But between the two he just went bush.

 

[mishachilli]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

Unless you are waiting for something. A phone call perhaps, the coast to be cleared back at the rec fields, the sounds of police sirens, a text. IMO it wasn’t Théo and as such the person with his phone could be waiting to assess situation and figure out next move.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

The spot I was according to Theos GPS map in MSM the bush camp was on the right when you were heading towards the beach and according to the data he veered to the left instead of stepping straight onto the beach.

As we know the MSM may not be 100% accurate as well

Yes that's correct

 

[Rocket333]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

Good ponderings. The timings match the events taking place at the time, but we only have some pieces of this jigsaw puzzle and no box.

My current take on it is along these lines. Theo met beach camp man (BCM) at the oval, and BCM talked Theo into heading back to Wake Up along the beach. When they get to the junction BCM turns down the beach track but Theo pauses, unsure and concerned, but BCM persuades him its just a short track to the beach and all is good. Theo follows BCM down the track. When BCM makes it out of the scrubby track he heads for his camp, wanting Theo to follow. Theo's cautious and walks around the camp, giving it a wider berth. Theo checks directions to Wake Up and heads up the beach. He's now a little nervous and keen to get home. He suspects BCM may follow him, and may even hear him calling for him. Theo arrives at the end of the beach and heads straight up the hill in order to head home, and to escape BCM. Keen to get out of there and believing the coast is clear, he heads down the hill to sort out his path home. BCM appears again and sits with him. The phone stops tracking Theo. Both Theo and BCM disappear.

 

[mussopossum]

I totally agree. Esp going into something so isolated. That’s why I went with one other person at the time. Just in case something bad happens!

And by bad I don’t just mean maybe you might be attacked or run into trouble with someone. There’s also things like snakes, hazards to trip of over causing possible injury!

Definitely take company

I wouldn't go up there on my own in daylight with a busy beach behind me let alone in the dark.

But you are right.

So many things could happen and snakes is all but one of them!

 

[mussopossum]

We also know that the GPS may be up to plus/minus 3 metres out in accuracy.

Thanks SA Just re-read my post which was meant to say the map in MSM may not be 100% accurate

Mondays, fat fingers, not enough caffeine

 

[feralflower]

Another thing I’ve been thinking about from the latest episode of the podcast. It’s stated that when Theo’s phone gets to the T junction of the fire trail it waits there for 2 mins. Then proceeded right towards the beach.

What caused the 2 min pause?

Was it catching breath from going fast? Was it trying to find your way? Remember it didn’t seem the phone stopped where Theo’s hat was found so if that’s where Theo lost the hat, why not stop to look for it?

Also remember it’s pitch black in the scrub, if your getting chased, why even follow a path that can be seen? Why not just go off the path, even like at CC if he went in that scrub stuff to hide, why not do it on the fire trail path and when he went right into the scrub? It’s pitch black, I reckon during the day if I had a head start even by 2 mins I could hide pretty well from somebody off the track, let alone doing it at night. Literally anywhere on track go in 10 meters and lie behind a tree and wait, no one would find you!

Just wanted to ad.. speaking of the phone going into the scrub up at CC. I don’t think 5 and a half minutes is long enough to wait if you hiding and think you are in danger. It’s stated on podcast at night anyone in that scrub would not be seen if hiding, Sheri thinks he’s hiding...but for someone in a lucid state who is hiding from danger, wouldn’t you think you would wait a tad longer than 5 mins? Even if you see the danger going the other way, wouldn’t you wait more than 5 mins? I would.

I thought this too, hiding for 5 and a half minutes then coming out seems short, but what if Theo was followed and the person caught up and yelled out to him telling him to come out, knowing where he is then the hiding spot is no longer useful and so Theo comes out. Perhaps Theo and whoever he went there with were both hiding . The follower or followers know they are there, yell out to them to come out so they come out of cover as it is useless if others are aware they are there. Possibly whoever Theo went with knows the follower and tries to negotiate, smooth things over if there was some sort of a disagreement causing him/her to want to hide from this person. Theo doesn't know this person who followed so while other 2 are talking he plays on his phone. There was also around 18 minutes in between him reaching the beach and using his phone. So what did he do during those 18 minutes? To be using his phone he would be stationary, unlikely to be in a hard ground area, and unlikely to be climbing cliffs etc. It seems he was still there on the beach even after mapping stopped. If walking anywhere he would be unlikely to be using phone, watching a video.

 

[feralflower]

I meant 18 minutes from 12.05 when he reached the beach at CC to his use of phone at 12.23. Not 18 minutes in between reaching the beach from the scrub. Just clarifying.