Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[mussopossum]

Understand however pod 4 Lisa and family seem ill informed hence them walking the track with locals etc. perhaps they don’t have that much information as we think/ hoped

IMO they are likely walking the tracks to get a visual and understanding of where he would have walked , what difficulties would be involved (such as vines trees etc).

When you visit and walk in the areas based on the gps locations on the map you get a whole different perspective on things and some things become clear and new ideas come to play which you may not see at the keyboard.

I am speaking in my own experience here, so can understand why the family would be walking the path.

 

[mussopossum]

Perhaps even if they bluffed that DNA has been found instead of noth

cosey corner how the map of movements shows a movement up to the left ( car park) and to the right . Refer to rocket333 map

I dont believe it has been released a result of the DNA testing.

Im not sure why they would "bluff" about being DNA found?

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Theo went north-west up toward the hang-gliding platform, or goat track between that and the lighthouse, not the way Connor went which is closer to the beach cliff and heads to the lighthouse north-east of CC where there is a danger sign now located. Theo’s route was more straight up and over towards Main Beach from my understanding of last ping location. So if he fell, it wouldn’t be near the lighthouse cliffs, it would be along one of the bay cliffs near The Pass. That’s my understanding. Otherwise he never made it that far, and something happened to him around last ping area which I think, was in bushland.

His movements and the interviews on the podcast do make me think he took drugs, maybe unintentionally ice. I also think a bit differently to GM, and have wondered if Theo had been chatting online to a fake girl on Tindr, who was in fact a guy, or gang etc. but seems he willingly went along with whoever he met on Tennyson for initial journey toward Milne Track then things changed.

So much time passed and volunteer time wasted by police not releasing more information. Telstra info. DNA on ‘The Judge’ club. If everything known was tabled, together, Websleuths, PI and volunteers would be more useful to Theo’s family.

Totally agree. But how would the family know? They trusted our authorities and only when they realised, as foreigners. weeks later, did they start to take matters into their own hands. Even AU citizens with missing persons, takes some time for them to realise they have to do it on their own. I today listened to a podcast about a 3 year missing person from Maitland, NSW, where the police dropped it like Theo 3 months later, and the family just now have found the way to outsource to ecast. So how would they know? They listened to the authorities. IMO the authorities were wrong to withhold all of this for so long and no reason to actually. At least to release his exact path would have been very helpful in the early stages. meant if he footage was made public

We don't know what LE are doing in the background or what info or knowledge Lisa, Michael and Theos family have. IMO LE, the locals, volunteers, David, the PI and Theos family would be all working together, we just find out whatever information they decide to release and tell us.

It is hard, but things stay quiet for a reason when a case is being worked. All IMOO.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

Totally agree. But how would the family know? They trusted our authorities and only when they realised, as foreigners. weeks later, did they start to take matters into their own hands. Even AU citizens with missing persons, takes some time for them to realise they have to do it on their own. I today listened to a podcast about a 3 year missing person from Maitland, NSW, where the police dropped it like Theo 3 months later, and the family just now have found the way to outsource to ecast. So how would they know? They listened to the authorities. IMO the authorities were wrong to withhold all of this for so long and no reason to actually. At least to release his exact path would have been very helpful in the early stages. meant if he footage was made public

 

[Deleted member 255258]

FYI I was replying to the last part of Sparks comment about time wasted if we had have had more info early on. I don't see what good it has done to withhold it, other than making it perhaps too late for the family, and that is why they have resorted to all of these other means. I have to agree with the impression I have from the podcasts, the authorities did a poor job after the initial search, and treated at least some people helping with disdain. Like the woman who found the shoe, told to enrol in the police academy so she could learn to be a real police officer. How condescending is that?

 

[SouthAussie]

If the police had Theo’s phone in their possession and there’s nothing of value on it, they still aren’t required to declare it are they? Even with the community actively searching for it.

That's right. The police don't have to say anything about anything. Whether there is something of value on the phone or not. imo

I think they would probably do the kind thing, however, and tell Theo's family that it was found.
Whether Theo's family would tell others? Well, I guess that depends on whether or not the police ask them not to.

Hopefully, it will all be revealed at the inquest - when that happens. But even then there are no guarantees. Significant portions of William Tyrrell's inquest are happening in closed court or are under suppression.

 

[Rocket333]

The police are not in the habit of releasing private information to the public. They only release what they need assistance with. It is up to witnesses, the PI, volunteers to go to the police if they stumble on further info. Totally normal procedure. Theo is no different from the other missing persons or victims of crime in this country.

The PI did say that the police have released information to him ... which he, of course, is keeping private.

Do you think the police just reached their conclusion at the 3 month expiration of their investigation mark that it was an accident at the cliffs, because nothing indicated criminal activity, and shut the book?
They wouldn’t be following anything further up (new evidence aside) if they’ve sent the case to the coroner would they?

 

[Rocket333]

That's right. The police don't have to say anything about anything. Whether there is something of value on the phone or not. imo

I think they would probably do the kind thing, however, and tell Theo's family that it was found.
Whether Theo's family would tell others? Well, I guess that depends on whether or not the police ask them not to.

Hopefully, it will all be revealed at the inquest - when that happens. But even then there are no guarantees. Significant portions of William Tyrrell's inquest are happening in closed court or are under suppression.

What’s the general reasoning for holding a closed court?

 

[Rocket333]

That's what I am trying to find out - if he was there. He is making a concerted point it was a note not his phone. He is basing it on CCTV footage of after Theo was evicted from CM. Was that footage made public? If not then again how would he know. If it was made public then yes, he may have thought the phone was a note, if the footage was unclear. That said, the post is still there and you would think the LFTH group would have deleted it or commented by now, but its still there and not a single response. They are quick to dispel these things post if incirrect why not this one?

I read the single comment that person made. Usually the reason people don’t respond is because it holds no logic or weight. Everyone’s pretty much convinced Theo’s looking at his phone and that correlated with cousin’s Michaels record of Theo’s online activity, ie he was looking at google maps for directions to WU as he headed down Kingsley. If there was anything at all in the note suggestion, there would be chatter.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

That's right. The police don't have to say anything about anything. Whether there is something of value on the phone or not. imo

I think they would probably do the kind thing, however, and tell Theo's family that it was found.
Whether Theo's family would tell others? Well, I guess that depends on whether or not the police ask them not to.

Hopefully, it will all be revealed at the inquest - when that happens. But even then there are no guarantees. Significant portions of William Tyrrell's inquest are happening in closed court or are under suppression.

There was info of relevance on the phone because the family garnered it after being able to access his online accounts. They knew he used youtube, they knew he sent FB messenger messages and Whatsapp messages. From his phone. That is why the phone was so important from he beginning. Given the family have gone against the advice of the authorities and decided to go public with what they have (very close to all they have I suspect) that is very relevant, in the absence of a phone, it is highly unlikely the phone has been found and the family are putting out (almost) all evidence they have for the public to help find Theo. I do not believe they have Theo's phone, or that it would reveal much more. They were piecing together the info from his communication data and now Gamble has this so maybe that will fill in some gaps after GM GPS was disabled (maybe that means reanalysing tower dump, I don't know). I do know that it is complex to analyse and coordinate such data. I am glad it is this PI's hands though.

 

[SouthAussie]

Do you think the police just reached their conclusion at the 3 month expiration of their investigation mark that it was an accident at the cliffs, because nothing indicated criminal activity, and shut the book?
They wouldn’t be following anything further up (new evidence aside) if they’ve sent the case to the coroner would they?

I think they probably have concluded it was a fatal accident - they did that in Gary Tweddle's case as well, and the Coroner found no differently.

Gary was eventually found deceased on a narrow ledge, by chance, having gone over a cliff late at night in the Blue Mountains. The police searched intensively for Gary, the same way they searched intensively for Theo. There was even speculation that Gary met a cocaine dealer late at night, but it came to nothing.

Gary's family did not want to believe it, but that was the outcome.

 

[SouthAussie]

What’s the general reasoning for holding a closed court?

Some police methodology is being kept under wraps, and also some testimony from a primary POI. As well there are 'pseudonym' (unidentified) witnesses being questioned in closed court.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

I read the single comment that person made. Usually the reason people don’t respond is because it holds no logic or weight. Everyone’s pretty much convinced Theo’s looking at his phone and that correlated with cousin’s Michaels record of Theo’s online activity, ie he was looking at google maps for directions to WU as he headed down Kingsley. If there was anything at all in the note suggestion, there would be chatter.

I am inclined to agree with you but just wanted to clarify with the person who posted. Because, the LFTH group re usually quick to pick up on such comments and either remove them or lose them down. It is because it is unusual for them to not do this, why I was questioning it. Anyway, I tend to agree with you, so no further comment on this one, lets get on with Theo. Thank you Rocket.

 

[SouthAussie]

There was info of relevance on the phone because the family garnered it after being able to access his online accounts. They knew he used youtube, they knew he sent FB messenger messages and Whatsapp messages. From his phone. That is why the phone was so important from he beginning. Given the family have gone against the advice of the authorities and decided to go public with what they have (very close to all they have I suspect) that is very relevant, in the absence of a phone, it is highly unlikely the phone has been found and the family are putting out (almost) all evidence they have for the public to help find Theo. I do not believe they have Theo's phone, or that it would reveal much more. They were piecing together the info from his communication data and now Gamble has this so maybe that will fill in some gaps after GM GPS was disabled (maybe that means reanalysing tower dump, I don't know). I do know that it is complex to analyse and coordinate such data. I am glad it is this PI's hands though.

It wouldn't bode well for the family or the PI to go against the police - if foul play is involved - and I do not believe that they are doing that.
They are being very gracious and respectful, as far as I can see.
The PI said that he was liaising with the police, in the 5th podcast, and the police had provided information to him.
The PI is following up in a legal manner. The volunteers are acting legally and handing in anything they find.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

What’s the general reasoning for holding a closed court?

There are many. Protection of witnesses or perceived perps who are not initially proven to be (or admit but for protection they are not publicly exposed), protection of family of victim/ perps, signed confessions or witness statements which fall under a protection order for their, or their family's safety, many other variations of reasons. Also, to prevent critical information from leaking to say, the media, which would jeopardise the case. So information cannot be publicly disseminated and if it is, there are only a few who can do so and are held accountable. Usually it means that the perp is guilty but the evidence is not something the court wants to be made public for the safety of innocent people and/ or those not innocent of other crimes but not involved in this one - so not to be made guilty by association.

 

[Deleted member 255258]

It wouldn't bode well for the family or the PI to go against the police - if foul play is involved - and I do not believe that they are doing that.
They are being very gracious and respectful, as far as I can see.
The PI said that he was liaising with the police, in the 5th podcast, and the police had provided information to him.
The PI is following up in a legal manner. The volunteers are acting legally and handing in anything they find.

Agree, but it is obvious in the podcast that they are not happy with the authorities investigation in certain areas. This podcast series is aimed to stir the higher authorities to act and make this a priority. Happens in media all the time. Why else do the podcast? The authorities can do more, you want them to do more, and media pressure keeping this in the MSM eyes is a definite way to do it. So not saying they are not liaising, just that the level of liaising has escalated and would not have been but for this podcast or similar avenue.

 

[BusterXP]

Did the police drivers search near the cliff? And scale the rocks?

Yes. Both using ropes to get down where they could and using a high precision drone. A last search was done just prior to announcing that the case was being referred to the Coroner.

 

[BusterXP]

Just want to put it out there that 10 years ago another backpacker went missing from the lighthouse area. It was around June as well. His body surfaced at the mouth of the Brunswick River. Would assume the currents would be similar so if Theo ended up in the water possibly could have gone this way too though the current need lighthouse seems to go out to sea the other way I think the ocean can have a mind of it's own. We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

That was my thought re a body being washed North.
I had a close associate work for Search and Rescue and they'd often head North first.
At similar, but smaller, headlands north a Hastings Point and Cabarita bodies have been found on beaches to the north a fair way up the beach when there have been drownings from southern pockets similar to CC.
There's a strong southern current but it's way out to sea.
Byron Bay is a bit different in that it one was swept north out of CC you'd end up out on the ocean a fair way first and then it's a long way up to Brunswick Heads.
I think it's possible a body could be lost at sea or consumed.

 

[mussopossum]

Do you think the police just reached their conclusion at the 3 month expiration of their investigation mark that it was an accident at the cliffs, because nothing indicated criminal activity, and shut the book?
They wouldn’t be following anything further up (new evidence aside) if they’ve sent the case to the coroner would they?

I would expect if anything of interest that may be linked or related to Theo if it came up would be looked into.

I could be wrong, but One would hope so anyhow.

 

[sparks030405]

Yep, however that V shape at the CC end of the original route published stays with me. The left side of the V is the spiky hill he climbed up ( what you’re referring to). The right side of the V is the sea cliffs. That side of the published route has never received further comment or elaboration, so it’s not clear if he also went right and took a look at the cliff side too.

True. Maybe he tried first to go up left but too spiky, so then tried around the rocks, but the map looks like he never even made it onto the rocks, more just straight into the water where your map says last ping. But was that the last ping location? I thought it was within a 60 deg arc someone drew previously, and up over the hill.