Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Rocket333]

An OPPO R17 phone has been provided for testing around the Byron area for 2 days (today till this Saturday)

If you have any suggestions on tests to run on Theos known gps on maps, settings on the phone to see how location services didn't register, sleep modes etc etc, please either post so that the time can be best utilized with understanding the phones functions settings and location services to try and recreate Theos actions that night. This is one of the things we hope will help connect some dots with the settings and what data they withhold or extrude as all model phones do things differently.

If you would like to contact directly you can message an admin on the official LFTH page.

Positive news & action Musso. Thanks for the update.

 

[T-dawg420]

My thoughts are still in limbo on this.

If something happened to Theo at Tennyson as you suggest, I would say in that case the phone data from Tennyson to CC was not Theo holding the phone. It might be the person who may have done something to Theo that might be familiar with the Milne / goat tracks bush area at Tallows and took his phone and cap, the erratic weaving in and out through an area we would assume only known to those familiar with it.

They may have been attempting to flee the area to be undetected after a crime? but the data shows they walked and not drove so what would have happened to Theos body? Unless there was gang there that had a car and drove him away.

If Theo was hurt here and still alive I cant see him walking to CC TBH. From what we know of the sensible intelligent young man he likely would stay in the streetlights and knock on a door for help, not go to another dark remote area.

It would make sense then knowing the way to avoid around the homeless camps and also knowing the little area in the bush at CC.

If he was hurt at CC I believe he was with someone who lured him there.

I am still thinking he got out of there and it happened on the streets though, IMO

One thing I’ve always struggled with is what could lure a ‘sensible, intelligent young man’ to go on that crazy journey?

Is it a case over being over trusting, and when he follows this person/s he just willingly goes onto the Milne track and fire trail? I’ve stood at that entrance, IMO and with all due respect he’s not very intelligent if he follows someone he barely knows down into that darkness! Esp as he’s looking at maps (looking back to WU) so surely he would have seen there was a much safer way to go, I don’t think going Milne track/fire trail would save that much time. It would be far easier and safer to move at almost 8km/h along Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd as oppose to the sandy fire trail!

What was so important that they needed to cut through there anyway? It’s only a 1.4km walk from Milne street to the tallow beach car park, roughly 18 mins according to google. It’s not like they were cutting off a massive amount of time/ground going that way.

He reaches Milne st at 11:30pm. If he decided to go Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd he would have made it to the tallows beach carpark at 11:48pm according to google maps (aforementioned 18min trip, but just to add I walk slightly faster than google maps journey myself)

At 11:48pm he just makes it out of the scrub onto the beach (next to abandoned camp). At 11:56 he goes into dense lantana at CC.

So IMO the decision to go the Milne track/sandy trail wasn’t to save time.

What’s everyone else think?

 

[Jables333]

One thing I’ve always struggled with is what could lure a ‘sensible, intelligent young man’ to go on that crazy journey?

Is it a case over being over trusting, and when he follows this person/s he just willingly goes onto the Milne track and fire trail? I’ve stood at that entrance, IMO and with all due respect he’s not very intelligent if he follows someone he barely knows down into that darkness! Esp as he’s looking at maps (looking back to WU) so surely he would have seen there was a much safer way to go, I don’t think going Milne track/fire trail would save that much time. It would be far easier and safer to move at almost 8km/h along Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd as oppose to the sandy fire trail!

What was so important that they needed to cut through there anyway? It’s only a 1.4km walk from Milne street to the tallow beach car park, roughly 18 mins according to google. It’s not like they were cutting off a massive amount of time/ground going that way.

He reaches Milne st at 11:30pm. If he decided to go Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd he would have made it to the tallows beach carpark at 11:48pm according to google maps (aforementioned 18min trip, but just to add I walk slightly faster than google maps journey myself)

At 11:48pm he just makes it out of the scrub onto the beach (next to abandoned camp). At 11:56 he goes into dense lantana at CC.

So IMO the decision to go the Milne track/sandy trail wasn’t to save time.

What’s everyone else think?

I agree that the Milne route doesn't save a significant amount of time especially due to the terrain. And it's totally pitch black. So the decision to go down the Milne track isn't one you would make lightly when you arrived at it's entrance late at night (if you were a sensible chap as Theo is said to be).

But we know Google suggests the track from certain locations if you ask for directions to Cosy. And he went. For what reason?

I wonder if a girl he met wanted to go there? The kind of girl who travels solo and who is pretty independent.

Would he have gone that way because her map suggested it?

And then when he realised it was so dark and kind of remote would he have continued because they were together, thinking, 'well she's doing it, safety in numbers'? And to impress her?

Maybe she had already been there before in the day and had seen Tommy's camp and knew to steer clear?

If Theo thought they were doing something normal that other backpackers do to get to Cosy at night for a fire or a doof, then I could be persuaded to believe he did go that way fairly willingly if in a scenario similar to above.

But to then completely disappear?

That's what's so strange.

So I consider the fact that no-one has been found or come forward with any information. And the fact that the YAC area is dodgy at night. And it's well known that people have had their drinks spiked in Byron. I have two local friends who have fallen victim, a guy and a girl.

And that makes me think there is a greater likelihood of foul play such as drink spiking or him inadvertently smoking hard drugs in what looked like an innocent joint he tried. And then him being led into the bush somewhat intoxicated.

But what drug could a person be under the influence of where they let themselves be taken on a hike like that, and yet still have sufficient wits about themselves to be looking up the address of their accomodation on Google Maps?

 

[sparks030405]

One thing I’ve always struggled with is what could lure a ‘sensible, intelligent young man’ to go on that crazy journey?

Is it a case over being over trusting, and when he follows this person/s he just willingly goes onto the Milne track and fire trail? I’ve stood at that entrance, IMO and with all due respect he’s not very intelligent if he follows someone he barely knows down into that darkness! Esp as he’s looking at maps (looking back to WU) so surely he would have seen there was a much safer way to go, I don’t think going Milne track/fire trail would save that much time. It would be far easier and safer to move at almost 8km/h along Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd as oppose to the sandy fire trail!

What was so important that they needed to cut through there anyway? It’s only a 1.4km walk from Milne street to the tallow beach car park, roughly 18 mins according to google. It’s not like they were cutting off a massive amount of time/ground going that way.

He reaches Milne st at 11:30pm. If he decided to go Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd he would have made it to the tallows beach carpark at 11:48pm according to google maps (aforementioned 18min trip, but just to add I walk slightly faster than google maps journey myself)

At 11:48pm he just makes it out of the scrub onto the beach (next to abandoned camp). At 11:56 he goes into dense lantana at CC.

So IMO the decision to go the Milne track/sandy trail wasn’t to save time.

What’s everyone else think?

don't you guys read previous posts before posting? I think we are all (apart from Rocket) past this idea of Theo going to Cosy Corner. We were discussing more likely that something happened to him at the end of Tennyson Street and someone else took off with his phone. We are possibly wasting time looking at this idea of Theo going to CC when more likely a BIG incident happened near Tennyson

 

[T-dawg420]

don't you guys read previous posts before posting? I think we are all (apart from Rocket) past this idea of Theo going to Cosy Corner. We were discussing more likely that something happened to him at the end of Tennyson Street and someone else took off with his phone. We are possibly wasting time looking at this idea of Theo going to CC when more likely a BIG incident happened near Tennyson

Firstly you don’t speak for me, and I’m not past anything yet. As rocket has said before to which I agree with, is that I am open to everything and question everything.

So perhaps we all could read before posting?

No one knows 100% what happened which is why we are all here posting.

Just to add, an earlier posting of mine is my theory and he never made it past the end of Tennyson. People are free to post whatever they want as long as it’s within the rules.

 

[sparks030405]

Sure but 'time is ticking' and we have already flogged CC to death, so to speak. Not much focus has been on that 7 minutes in town. We start to focus on it, and then a few of you turn the topic back to CC. What are the chances of an 18 year old male late out in town in winter on a busy alcohol fuelled Friday night in Byron Bay being killed via a 'king hit' vs 'falling off a cliff'?!

 

[T-dawg420]

Sure but 'time is ticking' and we have already flogged CC to death, so to speak. Not much focus has been on that 7 minutes in town. We start to focus on it, and then a few of you turn the topic back to CC.

I’m very aware of the time. I am also aware of how much I have posted myself about the end of Tennyson st and even my theory is posted.

‘A few of you’, lol. My comment was in reply to another poster, and if you actually read my statement correctly then I am implying in a respectful manner that I don’t think Theo went CC (which I’ve done a lot but because I don’t know what happened, I’m open to all)

And if you feel passionate about a subject matter then steer the convo back in that direction, don’t get upset cos others are talking about something else.

But it’s all speculation. And me myself, I’ve speculated quite a bit on the end of Tennyson....perhaps you need to go back and read them before assuming I’m trying to steer the convo back to CC

 

[sparks030405]

I’m very aware of the time. I am also aware of how much I have posted myself about the end of Tennyson st and even my theory is posted.

‘A few of you’, lol. My comment was in reply to another poster, and if you actually read my statement correctly then I am implying in a respectful manner that I don’t think Theo went CC (which I’ve done a lot but because I don’t know what happened, I’m open to all)

And if you feel passionate about a subject matter then steer the convo back in that direction, don’t get upset cos others are talking about something else.

But it’s all speculation. And me myself, I’ve speculated quite a bit on the end of Tennyson....perhaps you need to go back and read them before assuming I’m trying to steer the convo back to CC

Whatever. Maybe you should just be more careful with your choice of words ...He did this, he did that... rather than ... if he did this or that....

 

[T-dawg420]

Whatever. Maybe you should just be more careful with your choice of words ...He did this, he did that... rather than ... if he did this or that....

Righteo lol

So let’s focus on the end of Tennyson then?

Why do you think Theo went to Tennyson?

I’ll save you some time so you don’t have to go back and read what I posted. My theory includes him going to the end of Tennyson IMO cos he wanted to walk on the beach going back to WU, so once he finds his bearings he decided to cut through end of Tennyson to Gilmore. He meets youth group and trouble occurs. Someone then takes Theo’s phone to CC, and when they get to CC they impersonate Theo in replying in French and using YT to give the implication Theo’s safe, and an accident then happens by Theo going off cliff.

I’ve even posted that where the WU courtesy bus dropped them off that night can be a dangerous place, maybe he was put off going back down Jonson st and decided to avoid? Far fetched but I don’t believe he purposefully met someone at Tennyson.

For me, I’ve never once been able to reconcile Theo making that trip on the Milne track/fire trail. Not by himself or with anyone. But like everything else, that theory of mine has many holes. I can’t find a theory that doesnt have holes in it.

Just cos that’s my theory, doesn’t make me closed off to anything though.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

One thing I’ve always struggled with is what could lure a ‘sensible, intelligent young man’ to go on that crazy journey?

Is it a case over being over trusting, and when he follows this person/s he just willingly goes onto the Milne track and fire trail? I’ve stood at that entrance, IMO and with all due respect he’s not very intelligent if he follows someone he barely knows down into that darkness! Esp as he’s looking at maps (looking back to WU) so surely he would have seen there was a much safer way to go, I don’t think going Milne track/fire trail would save that much time. It would be far easier and safer to move at almost 8km/h along Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd as oppose to the sandy fire trail!

What was so important that they needed to cut through there anyway? It’s only a 1.4km walk from Milne street to the tallow beach car park, roughly 18 mins according to google. It’s not like they were cutting off a massive amount of time/ground going that way.

He reaches Milne st at 11:30pm. If he decided to go Paterson/Lawson/tallows beach Rd he would have made it to the tallows beach carpark at 11:48pm according to google maps (aforementioned 18min trip, but just to add I walk slightly faster than google maps journey myself)

At 11:48pm he just makes it out of the scrub onto the beach (next to abandoned camp). At 11:56 he goes into dense lantana at CC.

So IMO the decision to go the Milne track/sandy trail wasn’t to save time.

What’s everyone else think?

One theory about Theo ‘following’ someone from the oval to CC, is that he did so unwillingly so as not further escalate situation.

In this case, I’m assuming Theo was just trying to get home via YAK and happened upon the gang.

They might’ve asked where he was going and Theo replied in broken English that he was trying to get to beach. The might have replied that they would take him to the beach. They might have taunted him a bit. They could have surrounded Theo and made him follow them, claiming there was a party with other backpackers down there. Who knows.

Theo, being sensible, kept his eye on GM to know where he with the intention to slip away when he could. He might’ve decided resisting or opposing too much might incite the gang. Or maybe they didn’t give Theo much choice. They might have even taken his wallet and said “if you want it back, follow us”.

Perhaps the stop on Cowper St was at someone’s house to pick up beer / drugs / coat / weapons and then they continued to beach. Theo might’ve felt out of danger for a while, went to the loo in lantana, used phone, then tried to leave. Things turned sour. Maybe they drugged him then?

Don’t yet have a narrative on how this ends.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Another theory is that the slab gang did something in those 7 minutes - Theo was drugged or injured.

One of them acted as decoy and ran away with the phone and evidence (whatever Theo drank from or weapon), and temporarily buried evidence it in the lantana?

Decoy pretended it was Theo on his phone by googling French on his own phone until last message at 12.56am. Then went somewhere with low signal between 2-4am. Then left phone somewhere to ping at Paterson St tower at 1.46pm.

Meanwhile slab gang might’ve taken Theo somewhere else entirely.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I'm honestly split down the middle, and not leaning one way or the other, on whether Theo was with his phone at CC, or whether he never made it and someone else pretended to be him on his phone.

Real happy if someone comes up with a theory to get me off the fence.

I absolutely agree though, that resources should go to investigating the concrete slab and its people. Also the houses on Cowper St near where phone went back and forth. And definitely the lantana alcove.

 

[T-dawg420]

I'm honestly split down the middle, and not leaning one way or the other, on whether Theo was with his phone at CC, or whether he never made it and someone else pretended to be him on his phone.

Real happy if someone comes up with a theory to get me off the fence.

I absolutely agree though, that resources should go to investigating the concrete slab and its people. Also the houses on Carlyle near where phone was. And definitely the lantana alcove.

Both theories make sense but can be discounted at the same time imo, which makes this whole situation baffling!

I totally agree the slab, Carlyle and lantana points tbh.

One thing I don’t think now and have never thought is he went down to CC voluntarily (I could be way wrong).

I posted a while ago about the V part on the MSM map. My belief is the second part of that map shows theos phone entry to CC, it also showed the deviation past Tommy’s camp in the scrub. I said at the time if the second half of that map is accurate, then so must be the first half, which included the V shaped direction down to Carlyle and Cowper!

Esp when we are told the gps is accurate within 3 meters, it’s a strange route to take if everything is hunky dory IMO.

That strange route taken directly after being on that dark, almost hidden from sight concrete slab for 7 mins is reason enough to think their could be foul play IMO.

 

[mussopossum]

don't you guys read previous posts before posting? I think we are all (apart from Rocket) past this idea of Theo going to Cosy Corner. We were discussing more likely that something happened to him at the end of Tennyson Street and someone else took off with his phone. We are possibly wasting time looking at this idea of Theo going to CC when more likely a BIG incident happened near Tennyson

I think Sparks I am still open to everything (even though I do not believe he did so, the falling off a cliff)

Theos data and what we know is so erratic and so outside his normal behavior (as per his families advice) that it is hard to know what is Theo and what might or might not have been Theo.

As in any investigation there is much going on in the background that is not released by MSM or the police or family.

For these reasons I still keep my thoughts and considerations open to all of the different possibilities.

My head spins every time I have to actually really think hard about what happened and how, as nothing makes sense.

 

[mussopossum]

I'm honestly split down the middle, and not leaning one way or the other, on whether Theo was with his phone at CC, or whether he never made it and someone else pretended to be him on his phone.

Real happy if someone comes up with a theory to get me off the fence.

I absolutely agree though, that resources should go to investigating the concrete slab and its people. Also the houses on Cowper St near where phone went back and forth. And definitely the lantana alcove.

The pacing back and forth on the slab would be a good thing to replicate on the OPPO phone over the next few days whilst they have the phone in possession.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

That's a great idea!

...It could be that Theo was being pushed around, the phone was being thrown around, or maybe even passed around trying to unlock it.

 

[BusterXP]

If you had an OPPO R17 phone what would you test in the settings to try and recreate Theos actions that night?

I wouldn't change settings. I'd look at power use and battery life with the type of use we know about. I'd particularly look at when the prompt is to enable Battery Savings Mode and if that kicks in automatically by default and the % battery when the phone shuts down.
I'd also try and replicate the GPS data.

 

[Rocket333]

- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson (went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St) and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- stops at T junction for a minute and searches WU hostel
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- steers around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 ping location point “near town”
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode – drop in phone signal from 02:00-04:00
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- 13:42 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

Just popping the timeline from Pg 31 here, for (my) ease of access! Thanks to all who compiled & contributed. It makes checking times a lot easier.

 

[Rocket333]

don't you guys read previous posts before posting? I think we are all (apart from Rocket) past this idea of Theo going to Cosy Corner. We were discussing more likely that something happened to him at the end of Tennyson Street and someone else took off with his phone. We are possibly wasting time looking at this idea of Theo going to CC when more likely a BIG incident happened near Tennyson

Oh thanks Sparks, if I’m the only one who hasn’t moved past CC, then I am absolutely fine to remain with CC as nothing is known for sure and it would be myopic to not keep open to all scenarios because currently nothing is off the board and everything is equally debatable.

Seven minutes on the slabs to suss him out and take him out? It’s public, populated and risky.
Coercing him to go to a secluded location on the premise that it’s a nice walk along the beach home is also as possible. Theo may have tried to exit this situation whilst on the slab, hence the described pacing from corner to corner. Or he may have tried to exit down Cowper Street, hence the zigzag movement. Or he may have tried to exit at the T intersection, hence the momentary pause to check GMs. Scaling up into the lantana may have been to hide or an attempt to reach the CC trail above. Interestingly his family hold that he was at CC, and they know more than any of us.

Move on as you wish, and I’ll bat for CC until I hear something compelling from the rec fields.

 

[Rocket333]

That's a great idea!

...It could be that Theo was being pushed around, the phone was being thrown around, or maybe even passed around trying to unlock it.

Or a football. Theo liked footy. Chucking a ball around the slab and a decision to have a game on the beach.

23:56pm ball gets kicked up the hill and Theo searches for it. Returns to beach.

Possible.