Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Rocket333]

The path taken from Tennyson st has always bothered me. Why go that way to the Milne trail? I’ve done this before but if you drop a pin at the concrete slab and do a google map search to Tallows beach car park it’s 1.7km and would take 21 mins to walk( the shortest trip is past the yak, onto Gilmore, out onto Lawson and down Tallows beach road). Theo’s phone signal leaves the slab at 11:21pm. He/phone signal eventually make it out onto the beach next to abandoned camp at 11:48, that’s 27 mins of travelling and still not at Tallows beach car park. If he went the suggested google maps way he/phone would be at the car park roughly 11:42pm.

Also as mentioned in the podcast if you google map from CM the path takes you to Milne track. It does this as well from the end of Tennyson however I’ve found that it only takes you the Milne track when you search for Tallows beach. I think that’s because Tallows beach gps location marker is a little south. If you search for CC or lighthouse it takes you Lawson/tallows beach Rd but if you specifically search for Tallows beach it takes you Milne track.

From Tennyson going to Milne track actually backtracks you a little, making it a longer trip than going the Lawson/tallow beach Rd route.

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of going the Milne track/fire trail is?

It a longer, much more hazardous journey to take, even for a local. What is the point to go this way?

One thing that sticks out to me straight away is the isolation and the darkness. Once you make it to Milne, your totally off the grid and away from any witnesses.

IMO you only take a longer, more hazardous trip somewhere if you wanna stay outta sight.

Surely a local would know that route isn’t the shortest way to CC. What’s the motivation for taking that route?

Google maps walking pace is calculated around 4.5km/h IIRC. That’s the speed Theo/his phone went up the hill past massinger, he walked from Tennyson to massinger at 6km/h and walked the sandy trail at 7.5km/h. If he travelled at those speeds going the Lawson/tallows beach Rd route he most likely would have made it there in less than 21 mins IMO.

So seriously, why take the Milne track route? Cos it wasn’t to save time

Also just to add, when I google maps from safari and not the app, you can see at least one car parked on the concrete slab. If you street view it you can see how easily you could get s vehicle on the slab. I wonder if there was a car/s parked there that night.

Also, I wonder if no.26 Tennyson heard or witnessed anything?

You go that way because it works for someone, ie it’s their usual path and it’s familiar and close to home. They know it well and have done it a million times.

 

[T-dawg420]

You go that way because it works for someone, ie it’s their usual path and it’s familiar and close to home. They know it well and have done it a million times.

Agree totally... but why would theo follow that route?

 

[Harpboon]

Agree totally... but why would theo follow that route?

When is was 18 and partying I would go to beach party’s & house party’s of people I’d never met before, only having one mutual friend.
i don’t find it that weird of a theory that he met someone and clicked with them and trusted them enough to go through the bush with them.

I mean as a backpacker that’s part of the point isn’t it? To see the place and to meet new people.

How are you going to meet new people And make new friends if you don’t take up invitations to say a party at the beach?

Add into the mix the fact he might of been on something as well to make him less aware of dangers or gut feelings

I feel like he knew someone that was either from wake up or he met in Byron prior to that night. Someone that he felt fairly comfortable with. Then could this person meet up with the person who takes them through the Milne track?

I struggle to see him following someone not from his age group into the bush.
I think we are looking for a group of young people who are keeping a secret.

 

[bearbear]

Private detective Ken Gamble phoned from Brisbane’s international airport while waiting for a flight, after the first episode.

He offered to help, and since then has been formally engaged by Theo’s family to investigate. He’s working pro bono.

Assistance such as this should be viewed as a help, not a hindrance, by overstretched police, who have limited resources. But the detective in charge of the Hayez investigation, Phil Parker, rejected an offer of a meeting when Gamble was in Byron. “The matter has been referred to the Coroner,” Parker wrote. “We will not be making any comment or taking any meetings. Thank you.”
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[bearbear]

Final hours

Gamble is concerned by revelations in the podcast that detectives do not appear to have followed up potential leads. For instance, Queensland beauty therapist Leesa Horn came forward during the series to say she had called Crime Stoppers because she thought she had seen Hayez lying dead on the highway just south of Coffs Harbour. No one called her back. “If it’s a genuine report, then why would they not follow up on this?” Gamble says.

“There’s so many different scenarios that it could be, but it’s something that has to be pursued thoroughly, in case it’s a lead.”

Others also have come on board, including ethical hackers who are uniting to examine leads such as Theo’s online accounts, which may contain location information.

 

[bearbear]

Theo spent almost seven minutes at the end of this street, some of this time pacing back and forth on a concrete slab behind cricket nets. Was he alone and thinking of his next move? Or did he meet someone there?

When The Australian visited this site, there were remnants of a small fire and alcohol bottles were scattered around. Locals say youths gather there at night. Theo’s phone then logged a dramatic change of course, heading east through suburban streets, up a hill to a small road called Milne Street, leading directly into Arakwal National Park. It’s assumed Theo still had his phone by the way it was used through the night.

 

[bearbear]

Detectives have suggested to Theo’s family that he was lost and ended up at Tallow Beach by mistake while trying to get back to his hostel. This explanation became increasingly shaky as The Lighthouse progressed. It was revealed the way Theo had walked, up Milne Street to the Milne Track, was one of the ways Google Maps recommends to walk to get to Tallow Beach.

This seemed to indicate Theo wanted to go to Tallow Beach. He should have been able to see his location at all times as a blue dot on his screen, so he should have known he was going away from his hostel.

It’s a complicated path, so it appeared he must have been that way before or was with someone who was leading the way.

At the 11th hour, on the day before the final episode of the series, a new option emerged when a listener emailed in a tip. She said Theo may have searched Google Maps for the way back to his hostel, but added a waypoint to Tallow Beach. The listener said that adding a waypoint like this would not show up in Theo’s Google logs.

 

[bearbear]

The police theory is that after getting to Cosy Corner, Theo tried to climb the cliffs to the lighthouse and had an accident, plunging to the bottom and then being washed away. They say analysis of signals from Theo’s phone matches this scenario.

But the family has learned to be sceptical of police interpretations of phone data, and believes the signals could match other scenarios. A darker side of Byron emerged during the series, revolving around drugs and violence, and an alternative to an accident is foul play.

Theo’s family needs to know every effort has been made to find out what happened. Their torture of not knowing goes on, but they are not alone. Byron Bay volunteers are continuing to support them, and now they have a lot more help.
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[SouthAussie]

If the Murdoch Press had any social conscience, which it doesn’t, it would not hide articles about Theo Hayez behind paywalls. I note with respect, that Fairfax Press provides open access to all their articles related to the current bushfires.

Just a reminder to those who rightly choose not to finance the dark-side, to view this article, which doesn’t actually say anything new and is just a filler for a paid newspaper service, search for the title via ‘Google News’ to read it for free.

Yes, it is a nice self-claimed pat on the back for The Australian and their podcast. Though I guess it does outline a little of the podcast contents for those who do not wish to listen to 6+ hours of podcast.

BUT still no mention/picture/description of Theo's still-missing phone! The one item that would help this investigation so much.

 

[sparks030405]

Here’s a real interesting read on child gangs in Tweed Heads under the Tweed-Byron police:

The wild frontier

Particularly interesting is how fearless and ruthless the kids are.

And how police are also victims.

Yet they say they can’t do anything unless caught in the act.

But might turn a blind eye if you take care of it yourself.

And because of this, there’s a bit of a vigilante culture going on.

That ‘judge’ club found suddenly takes on a whole new meaning.

Thanks for the article. Interesting read. We now have two or three generations of uneducated, drug and alcohol addicted, impoverished, Aussie losers, breeding more of the same like a cancerous plague up and down the east coast of Australia. There’s a reason I fly when I go on holidays, to get past this . From his Facebook profile and family comments, Theo represented the antithesis of these local youths and their older peers. The values they hold are ideologically polarised. Unfortunately for Theo, it seems his world collided with theirs. I totally see why the police are so ambivalent. It’s a growing problem without a solution.

 

[Jables333]

Thanks for the article. Interesting read. We now have two or three generations of uneducated, drug and alcohol addicted, impoverished, Aussie losers, breeding more of the same like a cancerous plague up and down the east coast of Australia. There’s a reason I fly when I go on holidays, to get past this ****. From his Facebook profile and family comments, Theo represented the antithesis of these local youths and their older peers. The values they hold are ideologically polarised. Unfortunately for Theo, it seems his world collided with theirs. I totally see why the police are so ambivalent. It’s a growing problem without a solution.

I struggle with police ambivalence. I think, really? Maybe I'm naive.

But then they are people with kids too.

Imagine if your kid was at a school or lived in a gang area - the gangs know you're a copper, and they know it's your kid.

You might think twice about making waves in your day to day duties as a copper if you see what I mean.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yesterday it was announced that the Coroner (in Victoria) has recommended a murder investigation - and the case has been turned over to the homicide squad - into Baillee Schneider's death 1½ years ago.

I just wanted to place that info here to give an example of the different outcomes that an inquest can have.

Perhaps if the Coroner can get the right person(s) before the inquest, something might pop in Theo's case. If anyone can compel people to speak, it is the Coroner. Though the Coroner cannot compel anyone to tell the truth, unless it is blatant lies where perjury can be charged.

 

[Rocket333]

Agree totally... but why would theo follow that route?

I think (mostly) that he went voluntarily, and he simply went because he was enjoying himself and felt safe.

Who then would he feel safe with?
Peers, girls, kids.

Why would he follow that route?
Those leading him know that route well, have explored the Tallow beach area and paths many times and live nearby. It’s their backyard.

The projected 60deg phone tower arc covers some of that route.

Where’s his phone?
In a local home or hidey hole in that vicinity. Most likely within that 60deg catchment.

All MOO.

 

[Rocket333]

Interesting that they’d spent the evening with friends at YAC. I hadn’t ever considered YAC being open at night.

“Tom Robinson told the court he had spent the evening with friends at YAC (Youth Activities Centre) and later at the Beach Hotel where they had one drink before buying kebabs and heading to the park at around 11.30pm to eat them.“

https://www.echo.net.au/2019/12/byron-teens-found-guilty-assaulting-police/

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Very interesting Rocket. It was a Saturday!

South Aussie, it’s so good to hear about Baillee’s case being investigated as murder, and not a ridiculous suicide like the previous one.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Does anyone remember if the podcast spoke of the loop Theo’s phone did on Cowper?

Other than the map released, I don’t think it was mentioned.

I’d really like to know if there was a pause from walking, or if it was more of a pivot.

The first may suggest someone entering a house while the phone waited outside.

The second might suggest a change in plan.

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting that they’d spent the evening with friends at YAC. I hadn’t ever considered YAC being open at night.

“Tom Robinson told the court he had spent the evening with friends at YAC (Youth Activities Centre) and later at the Beach Hotel where they had one drink before buying kebabs and heading to the park at around 11.30pm to eat them.“

Byron teens found guilty of assaulting police – Echonetdaily

Says it is closed Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. However, it does have special events there - which may fall outside of those hours.
It's location is so close to the rec grounds. I wonder if they had an event there on 31st May. Not finding anything at the moment.



Byron Youth Service

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I hear you Rocket, thinking Theo might have willingly gone from oval to beach, with someone he felt comfortable with. I’ll play out a scenario in which that might happen, to see what it might look like...

I often think about how Theo didn’t obviously stand out like a backpacker but looked more like an Aussie tradie surfer.

Maybe the slab gang engaged with him because he looked like one of them?

Perhaps Theo sat, shared a bong with them and showed them pictures on his phone, hence phone being passed around.

Maybe the group heard police or something from YAK/homeless camp that made them decide to take the gathering elsewhere, hence the running off and cutting through oval.

Truly, I’d imagine Theo taking the opportunity to safety split and head home at this point but let’s just say he followed them willingly.

They made a stop on Cowper then went to beach with Theo keeping eye on distance from hostel. Once on the beach, he heads straight into lantana alcove.

This does not make sense to me. If he needed a bathroom, he could have done it anywhere in bush before beach or behind any bush on the beach. How would he even see or know where the lantana alcove was? Wasn’t it pretty dark?

I keep thinking he might’ve mistaken the alcove as a path out. I’ve been on a beach at night and have struggled to make out the entry point from all the shadows of the grass, rocks and dunes.

Or perhaps he hooked up with one of the gang there? They knew the spot and led him there.

I get stuck here and don’t know how it might progress.

IDK. It’s not particularly consistent with what family say of Theo’s character, nor what we know about youth gang, but it is possible.

 

[Rocket333]

Does anyone remember if the podcast spoke of the loop Theo’s phone did on Cowper?

Other than the map released, I don’t think it was mentioned.

I’d really like to know if there was a pause from walking, or if it was more of a pivot.

The first may suggest someone entering a house while the phone waited outside.

The second might suggest a change in plan.

Nothing confirmed. My guess is a pivot in order to head up Marvel instead of Carlyle.

 

[Aron.Wor]

Based on the theory that others were involved in Theo's disappearance...

Does anyone think that it was premeditated and planned by someone else?

No, if a crime was committed I believe it was a crime of opportunity.