Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #3

[Rocket333]

Just pinning the mapping closer (any better way of storing it for easy retrieval here?)

- 23:07 he exited CM
- 23:08 he stops briefly in Kingsley
- 23:08 ->11:13 walks to the end of Tennyson
- 23:13 stops for 7 minutes
- 23:21 left the slab at the end of Tennyson (went to the intersection of Cowper St/Carlyle St and then backtracks to Marvell St) and went to Massinger Street at 6km/hr
- then walked up hill from Massinger Str, to Milne St. at 4,5 km/hr
- 23: 30 reaches Milne Str.
- then enters Milne track and reaches T-junction in 5 minutes at 7,5km/hr
- stops at T junction for a minute and searches WU hostel
- then walks for 8 minutes at a little more than 4 km/hr
- steers around Tommy's invisible camp site
- location where Theo's cap was found = between Tommy's camp site and the beach
- 23:48 reaches the beach through a tiny path at a gully with an abandoned camp site
- Theo looks up WU again and walks for 8 minutes to CC at 6km/hr
- 23:56 (+/-) walks up hill and stops for 5,5 minutes in a hidden clearing at about 20m from the sand
- 00:03 Theo / Theo's phone goes back to the beach in less than 2 minutes
- 00:05 GPS tracing stops
- but the phone continued sending signals till the afternoon of June 1st
- 00:20 sends Messenger message to friend Lou in French about U2 Tour: ugh, in September or something?'
- 00:23 watches YouTube Burger quiz for 1 minute and 50 seconds
- 00:55 sends WA message
- 00:56 ping location point “near town”
- 00:56 sends WA message to stepsister in Belgium of a kiss emoji and 'merci'
- 01:01 Theo's phone zoomed in on the location of his hostel on GM, the phone GPS appears to have still been off because the location of the phone was not recorded
- +/- 02:00 - +/- 06:00 phone in 'sleep' mode – drop in phone signal from 02:00-04:00
- +/- 04:00 moon rises and there is moonlight
- +/- 06:00 phone exits 'sleep' mode (what triggered this?)
- 13:42 of June 1st, last ping, originating from Cape Byron, not from CC

Source: Chiatos & SouthAussie

 

[mussopossum]

Sorry this is so long....

So today I went back to the end of Tennyson St to check the slab and also if there were any remnants of a party or what might go on there of a night.

Hit the jackpot.

I ventured off the slab into the edge of the bush (about 5m away) and found what looked like recent parties in a small clearing.

What was left and what I looked up online blew me away.

Dozens and dozens and dozens of little bullet-like metal cylinders which turn out to be nitrous oxide also known as pings, hippy crack, pings, nangs, whippet, buzz bombs.

The amount that was there, with one also sitting on the concrete slab near the nets were consistent with this likey being done regularly.

We have never been able to figure out why Theo hovered in this area then went to Cosy corner.

Some of the side effects of these drugs especially when mixed with alcohol are confusion, disorientation, loss of concentration, and can lead to accidents or death.

Some sites even go as far as saying when using the drug not to use it in dangerous or isolated places.

https://yourroom.health.nsw.gov.au/a-z-of-drugs/Pages/nitrous-oxide.aspx

Nitrous oxide - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

So my thoughts are here, Theo was not into illegal drugs. (that we know of)

Whilst using this for a high is not illegal, it is an offense in NSW to sell or supply for human consumption.

They are sold in Byron and readily available in supermarkets and corner stores for whipped cream canisters.

He might have had these at Tennyson and was given a cylinder by whoever was there at the time and become confused and disorientated as had a bit of alcohol in his system.

Even though it states that the effects only last 20 seconds to a couple of min, Theo may have been more open to this drug as it was not a hardcore illegal drug and might not think it was as harmful as other drugs.

It might explain his constant looking up Wake up and where he was and also his pacing on the slab at Tennyson and also his going to Tallows and CC and going through the bush or back streets as it also can cause paranoia.

He might have had someone with him going to the beach who knew the way through the bush, might have done more of the drug along the way and up on the little area above Cosy corner. Might also be why his hat fell off and it just didn't matter to him at the time like it usually would so he left it.

I have never believed Theo fell off a cliff and really still don't, however taking into account this drug and its side effects of hallucinations, confusion, disorientation etc I now wonder if he attempted to climb the cliff, fell and died.

He could have been moved by whoever was with him into the water or bush as if they supplied the drug that led to his death they could be prosecuted.

I am not stating Theo took this drug... or any drugs, this is a what-if scenario and with no disrespect to Theo or his family.

This is a matter of what I found today and with reference to some of his unexplained behavior.

May I also add, the person who came on here to say they stayed on Cowper St a few months ago and were approached on the oval there by teens asking if they wanted to do something (forget what the term was) but im wondering now more than ever if it was asking if they wanted some ping or nang) Did they see Theo that night and offer him the same just like they did to the WS member?

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry this is so long....

So today I went back to the end of Tennyson St to check the slab and also if there were any remnants of a party or what might go on there of a night.

Hit the jackpot.

I ventured off the slab into the edge of the bush (about 5m away) and found what looked like recent parties in a small clearing.

What was left and what I looked up online blew me away.

Dozens and dozens and dozens of little bullet-like metal cylinders which turn out to be nitrous oxide also known as pings, hippy crack, pings, nangs, whippet, buzz bombs.

The amount that was there, with one also sitting on the concrete slab near the nets were consistent with this likey being done regularly.

We have never been able to figure out why Theo hovered in this area then went to Cosy corner.

Some of the side effects of these drugs especially when mixed with alcohol are confusion, disorientation, loss of concentration, and can lead to accidents or death.

Some sites even go as far as saying when using the drug not to use it in dangerous or isolated places.

https://yourroom.health.nsw.gov.au/a-z-of-drugs/Pages/nitrous-oxide.aspx

Nitrous oxide - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

So my thoughts are here, Theo was not into illegal drugs. (that we know of)

Whilst using this for a high is not illegal, it is an offense in NSW to sell or supply for human consumption.

They are sold in Byron and readily available in supermarkets and corner stores for whipped cream canisters.

He might have had these at Tennyson and was given a cylinder by whoever was there at the time and become confused and disorientated as had a bit of alcohol in his system.

Even though it states that the effects only last 20 seconds to a couple of min, Theo may have been more open to this drug as it was not a hardcore illegal drug and might not think it was as harmful as other drugs.

It might explain his constant looking up Wake up and where he was and also his pacing on the slab at Tennyson and also his going to Tallows and CC and going through the bush or back streets as it also can cause paranoia.

He might have had someone with him going to the beach who knew the way through the bush, might have done more of the drug along the way and up on the little area above Cosy corner. Might also be why his hat fell off and it just didn't matter to him at the time like it usually would so he left it.

I have never believed Theo fell off a cliff and really still don't, however taking into account this drug and its side effects of hallucinations, confusion, disorientation etc I now wonder if he attempted to climb the cliff, fell and died.

He could have been moved by whoever was with him into the water or bush as if they supplied the drug that led to his death they could be prosecuted.

I am not stating Theo took this drug... or any drugs, this is a what-if scenario and with no disrespect to Theo or his family.

This is a matter of what I found today and with reference to some of his unexplained behavior.

May I also add, the person who came on here to say they stayed on Cowper St a few months ago and were approached on the oval there by teens asking if they wanted to do something (forget what the term was) but im wondering now more than ever if it was asking if they wanted some ping or nang) Did they see Theo that night and offer him the same just like they did to the WS member?

Interesting, and could explain SO much about the inexplicable actions by Theo that night.

Also, using nitrous oxide can bring on sudden death, fainting, heart attack, and hypoxia. (Long term users can suffer from paranoia ie: the regular users at the slab). It is commonly used by dentists and medical professionals to sedate patients undergoing minor medical procedures.


The following effects may be felt almost immediately and can last for a few minutes:

• euphoria
• numbness of the body
• sedation
• giddiness
• uncontrolled laughter
• uncoordinated movements
• blurred vision
• confusion
• dizziness and/or light-headedness
• sweating
• feeling unusually tired or weak
• sudden death.

If a large amount of nitrous oxide is inhaled it can produce:

• loss of blood pressure
• fainting
• heart attack.

Inhaling nitrous oxide can be fatal if you don’t get enough oxygen, which is known as hypoxia.

Mixing nitrous oxide and alcohol can cause:

• confusion
• feeling heavy or sluggish
• reduced concentration
• loss of body control.

Nitrous oxide - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

 

[*Verdigris]

...deleted, nevermind!

 

[AJF-Aus]

Gosh those bulbs are temporary and IMO harmless. The effects work for more like 10 seconds max then you’re back to 100% normal. I think more an indication of the type of kids that hang there, than anything that would have impacted Théo IMO. They are cheap quick thrills. Like anything drug/medical on google you’re given the extreme worst case scenario.

But good scoping Mussopossum. That indicates IMO those kid gangs are desperate for kicks, bored, still hanging there.

Hey if the cops have handed the case over to the Coroner - the triangulation and ping data for other phones in the area at the time of Theo’s last known movements must already be known?? Do we think? If there was still data to get would they have handed the case over to the coroner before getting it? A friend who works in the telco infrastructure industry says that data is not difficult to get and that they’d have it (in his opinion). It does seem like a simple thing to do IMO. I get the legal process though. But surely the cops want to solve this?? Maybe the coroner can get it easier and they are shifting given greater powers of the coroner. People have said that already.

I don’t believe the tourism/reputation angle as they are very different government/local concerns and it just doesn’t work like that in the real world. I’m more thinking they’ve done all they believe they (efficiently) can or the cops know more than we think they know. All IMO.

 

[T-dawg420]

Sorry this is so long....

So today I went back to the end of Tennyson St to check the slab and also if there were any remnants of a party or what might go on there of a night.

Hit the jackpot.

I ventured off the slab into the edge of the bush (about 5m away) and found what looked like recent parties in a small clearing.

What was left and what I looked up online blew me away.

Dozens and dozens and dozens of little bullet-like metal cylinders which turn out to be nitrous oxide also known as pings, hippy crack, pings, nangs, whippet, buzz bombs.

The amount that was there, with one also sitting on the concrete slab near the nets were consistent with this likey being done regularly.

We have never been able to figure out why Theo hovered in this area then went to Cosy corner.

Some of the side effects of these drugs especially when mixed with alcohol are confusion, disorientation, loss of concentration, and can lead to accidents or death.

Some sites even go as far as saying when using the drug not to use it in dangerous or isolated places.

https://yourroom.health.nsw.gov.au/a-z-of-drugs/Pages/nitrous-oxide.aspx

Nitrous oxide - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

So my thoughts are here, Theo was not into illegal drugs. (that we know of)

Whilst using this for a high is not illegal, it is an offense in NSW to sell or supply for human consumption.

They are sold in Byron and readily available in supermarkets and corner stores for whipped cream canisters.

He might have had these at Tennyson and was given a cylinder by whoever was there at the time and become confused and disorientated as had a bit of alcohol in his system.

Even though it states that the effects only last 20 seconds to a couple of min, Theo may have been more open to this drug as it was not a hardcore illegal drug and might not think it was as harmful as other drugs.

It might explain his constant looking up Wake up and where he was and also his pacing on the slab at Tennyson and also his going to Tallows and CC and going through the bush or back streets as it also can cause paranoia.

He might have had someone with him going to the beach who knew the way through the bush, might have done more of the drug along the way and up on the little area above Cosy corner. Might also be why his hat fell off and it just didn't matter to him at the time like it usually would so he left it.

I have never believed Theo fell off a cliff and really still don't, however taking into account this drug and its side effects of hallucinations, confusion, disorientation etc I now wonder if he attempted to climb the cliff, fell and died.

He could have been moved by whoever was with him into the water or bush as if they supplied the drug that led to his death they could be prosecuted.

I am not stating Theo took this drug... or any drugs, this is a what-if scenario and with no disrespect to Theo or his family.

This is a matter of what I found today and with reference to some of his unexplained behavior.

May I also add, the person who came on here to say they stayed on Cowper St a few months ago and were approached on the oval there by teens asking if they wanted to do something (forget what the term was) but im wondering now more than ever if it was asking if they wanted some ping or nang) Did they see Theo that night and offer him the same just like they did to the WS member?

Great sleuthing musso!

I’ve got some things to add that might be helpful. I just wanna preface my comments with this... I have had experience with drugs. I’m a ‘getting older fox’ now but you know how it goes, I ran ‘a little wild’ in the youth and experimented heaps...and also I have 420 in my name, if you are familiar with that term then I dig your style, if you aren’t, google might be able to help ya if you’re curious..

Here goes

The term that was used I think by the poster who was approached was ‘Baccy bong’. In my experience that is short for ‘tobacco’ bong (straight tobacco in the cone piece and no weed). He also asked for spin for his Baccy bong IIRC, and spin is a term used for tobacco. This is because the tobacco is ‘spun’ (mixed) with the weed, thereby extending it.

Now the use of cream bulbs to Get high is not new. I was doing it back in the 90’s as a 15/16/17/18 year old who did this. It was super cheap to get a buzz going. For memory (I assure it still works quite well) it gets you super high for a little bit. I distinctly remember a mate of a mates at a high school party slammin 2 full bulbs down in one breath, his lips turned blue and he got a little crazy and wild for a while, it didn’t help as we were also on the wine coolers!

Maybe at the end of his trip looming, knowing he is happily returning home to start uni, he momentarily is in the company of people who seem cool, and he thinks ‘ya know what, f*** it’ and decides to ingest a cream bulb. That’s not the most crazy scenario I’ve ever heard, with all due respect.

 

[SouthAussie]

Gosh those bulbs are temporary and IMO harmless. The effects work for more like 10 seconds max then you’re back to 100% normal. I think more an indication of the type of kids that hang there, than anything that would have impacted Théo IMO. They are cheap quick thrills. Like anything drug/medical on google you’re given the extreme worst case scenario.

But good scoping Mussopossum. That indicates IMO those kid gangs are desperate for kicks, bored, still hanging there.

Hey if the cops have handed the case over to the Coroner - the triangulation and ping data for other phones in the area at the time of Theo’s last known movements must already be known?? Do we think? If there was still data to get would they have handed the case over to the coroner before getting it? A friend who works in the telco infrastructure industry says that data is not difficult to get and that they’d have it (in his opinion). It does seem like a simple thing to do IMO. I get the legal process though. But surely the cops want to solve this?? Maybe the coroner can get it easier and they are shifting given greater powers of the coroner. People have said that already.

I don’t believe the tourism/reputation angle as they are very different government/local concerns and it just doesn’t work like that in the real world. I’m more thinking they’ve done all they believe they (efficiently) can or the cops know more than we think they know. All IMO.

One of the first things the police did was gather the telco data and any CCTV that was available. They are not in the habit of releasing info unless it is helpful to their investigation.
They would feel that they have strong indications of Theo's demise, to have handed the case to the Coroner.

The bulbs may be harmless to the majority, but there is always that one who is seriously harmed. Who knows if the police have interviewed the slab crew and know what (if anything) Theo did with them/bought from them that night. The police are not going to tarnish Theo's reputation in any way, especially on hearsay.

I don't believe the tourism angle either. If the tourism angle played any part in police investigations, we wouldn't hear about crimes in Sydney, Melbourne, Gold Coast ... anywhere.

 

[mussopossum]

One of the first things the police did was gather the telco data and any CCTV that was available. They are not in the habit of releasing info unless it is helpful to their investigation.
They would feel that they have strong indications of Theo's demise, to have handed the case to the Coroner.

The bulbs may be harmless to the majority, but there is always that one who is seriously harmed. Who knows if the police have interviewed the slab crew and know what (if anything) Theo did with them/bought from them that night. The police are not going to tarnish Theo's reputation in any way, especially on hearsay.

I don't believe the tourism angle either. If the tourism angle played any part in police investigations, we wouldn't hear about crimes in Sydney, Melbourne, Gold Coast ... anywhere.

Agreed SA on comment of the bulbs.

@AJF-Aus Thing is, what if they kept doing it. Not once but kept taking the stuff for hours?

Not just a quick hit but continuous hits with alcohol

 

[AJF-Aus]

Agreed SA on comment of the bulbs.

@AJF-Aus Thing is, what if they kept doing it. Not once but kept taking the stuff for hours?

Not just a quick hit but continuous hits with alcohol

Even then, harmless. That’s why you can have minor surgery with the stuff streaming into your lungs for extended periods. Kids do this stuff and drink alcohol all the time, ever see any reported deaths or an epidemic? These are common and everywhere. Imo no chance. Clutching at straws. Something else, not this. Théo not going to be sitting there sucking these back at to the point of danger, all IMO.

Like 420 said, his crazy mate sucked back two full ones and lived to tell the tale.

 

[SouthAussie]

Even then, harmless. That’s why you can have minor surgery with the stuff streaming into your lungs for extended periods. Kids do this stuff and drink alcohol all the time, ever see any reported deaths or an epidemic? These are common and everywhere. Imo no chance. Clutching at straws. Something else, not this. Théo not going to be sitting there sucking these back at to the point of danger, all IMO.

Like 420 said, his crazy mate sucked back two full ones and lived to tell the tale.

According to the article I posted, adverse reactions are dependent on several things. No prior use, the persons weight and size .... something caused Theo's erratic and inexplicable behaviour that night. And there was no friend around to keep him safe if he was adversely reacting.

Sometimes this case makes me think of Warriena Wright and the effect that Tostee's (now Eric Thomas) homemade brew had on her. Bad enough that she thought she could climb down 10 storeys or climb to another balcony to get away from him.

 

[mussopossum]

Even then, harmless. That’s why you can have minor surgery with the stuff streaming into your lungs for extended periods. Kids do this stuff and drink alcohol all the time, ever see any reported deaths or an epidemic? These are common and everywhere. Imo no chance. Clutching at straws. Something else, not this. Théo not going to be sitting there sucking these back at to the point of danger, all IMO.

Like 420 said, his crazy mate sucked back two full ones and lived to tell the tale.

Dad of schoolie Hamish Bidgood who fell and died while high calls for nitrous oxide to be banned | Daily Mail Online

Des Bidgood revealed his son, Hamish, had been drinking and inhaling nitrous oxide for hours before his death in the early hours of November 29 and has called for the potentially lethal gas to be banned.

Mr Bidgood told the Daily Telegraph his son had 'no idea' what he was doing when he pushed past his friends to throw himself off the eleventh floor balcony of room 1011 at Surf Regency apartments.

 

[AJF-Aus]

Dad of schoolie Hamish Bidgood who fell and died while high calls for nitrous oxide to be banned | Daily Mail Online

Des Bidgood revealed his son, Hamish, had been drinking and inhaling nitrous oxide for hours before his death in the early hours of November 29 and has called for the potentially lethal gas to be banned.

Mr Bidgood told the Daily Telegraph his son had 'no idea' what he was doing when he pushed past his friends to throw himself off the eleventh floor balcony of room 1011 at Surf Regency apartments.

Sure guys, what I’m trying to say here is that it’s highly unlikely based on the time of use in one spot, the amount you’d need, coupled with Theo’s movement out and about. If you’ve found a couple of examples online from kids in a peer pressure situation over an extended period sure. But honestly I don’t believe this angle is the one.

Like I said I still think the info is great because it shows they are bored, low socio-economic, etc.

 

[SouthAussie]

Dad of schoolie Hamish Bidgood who fell and died while high calls for nitrous oxide to be banned | Daily Mail Online

Des Bidgood revealed his son, Hamish, had been drinking and inhaling nitrous oxide for hours before his death in the early hours of November 29 and has called for the potentially lethal gas to be banned.

Mr Bidgood told the Daily Telegraph his son had 'no idea' what he was doing when he pushed past his friends to throw himself off the eleventh floor balcony of room 1011 at Surf Regency apartments.

When I google 'death by nitrous oxide' quite a few deaths come up. Although it is a small percentage of total users. eg: 25 people in the UK between 2010 and 2016. Though they say the incidents of death are increasing each year.

When I drill down into the autopsy results, most die from chemical asphyxia, some from horrible incidents following ingestion.

 

[Rocket333]

The journey from the rec fields to CC was fast and direct to avoid detection (or not being seen). Moving up Marvel, Massinger, Short & Paterson Streets at a fast pace in the dark reduced the chances of anyone seeing them and was the quickest way to the Milne track where privacy was guaranteed. The route was a deliberate choice of unpopulated and dark backroads to reach CC quickly and very discreetly. They were on a mission and had something to hide. Not Theo, but his teenaged companions. At CC they all climbed up to the lantana hideout where they huddled for 5 minutes before returning to the beach where they hung out together. Theo just intended to go home the whole time. The trip to Tallow Beach was meant to be a minor detour for him to see the Lighthouse and wander home along the beach. He had no idea that Tallow Beach was a dead end, and they played on his naivety. They eventually took control of his phone and tracking got turned off before it was carried away from the beach with them, back the way they came. The phone is likely to be hidden in a home or hidey hole near Tallow Beach, hence the final ping in that area the following afternoon. MOO

 

[AJF-Aus]

I’m a bit concerned we aren’t going to have any material developments until Coroner stage It’s all gone so quiet post the podcast.

 

[SouthAussie]

I’m a bit concerned we aren’t going to have any material developments until Coroner stage It’s all gone so quiet post the podcast.

I think you are probably correct. There is always a long wait until an inquest. Then there is always a surprise about how much info the police found in their investigation.

Unless Theo's phone, or Theo, are stumbled on ... there probably won't be any breaking news anytime soon. imo

 

[AJF-Aus]

I think you are probably correct. There is always a long wait until an inquest. Then there is always a surprise about how much info the police found in their investigation.

Unless Theo's phone, or Theo, are stumbled on ... there probably won't be any breaking news anytime soon. imo

How long till Coroner stage/Inquest do you think SA?

 

[SouthAussie]

How long till Coroner stage/Inquest do you think SA?

My best guess would be 1-1½ years. Judging by other NSW cases I have followed on here.

 

[sparks030405]

Playing online games, communicating with others on a travel forum, looking at things to see when he left Byron Bay to go to Melbourne, perhaps stops along the way, checking reservations, looking at FB ......
There are many things Theo could have been doing on his phone in all of that time that is unaccounted for.
I just don't believe he was sitting on the beach twiddling his thumbs.

Nor do I believe that he had to have been with anyone else.
It is easy to see where he should have walked in the daytime. But at night? Not so easy. It is not as if google would have been telling him to turn right in 200m. As Theo's father said, it all looks so much different at night.

From WU, through the township and on to CM, it’s pretty obvious Tennyson St is the edge of town nightlife. So much noise and lights that he would know which way back to WU IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

From WU, through the township and on to CM, it’s pretty obvious Tennyson St is the edge of town nightlife. So much noise and lights that he would know which way back to WU IMO

I was speaking of the possibility of why Theo didn't take the Milne track to Tallow.
None of us knows anything. We are all just making guess after guess. The behaviour seems too erratic for anything to make any sense.