Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

[Warshawski]

That is an unusual response, did she think they knew he was a potential killer?

Hey Karo, I don't see the Bravehearts response to be in any way unusual. I certainly want to understand how our Child Protection team could get it sooooo wrong.

What's the process for 'would be carers'? Do they fill in a Form, Tick the Boxes and wait for the approval notice?

Or do they perhaps have to go through a full investigative process, previous history, activities, whereabouts, associates, financials, psych analysis etc. ?

 

[Warshawski]

No system is ever going to be perfect because we don't live in a perfect world. But i think children that can't be properly monitored/reviewed as to their circumstances in out of home care, it leaves things wide open for abuse. And no child should have to be placed at even more risk than they were before going into state care. So in that regard something has to change IMO.
I know institutional care isn't perfect either, and with much more awareness now on child abuse in that type of set up than there was in previous eras, i think it could work better than foster care. Wonder how many foster carers there would be if there was no Govt. funded monetary incentive? I'm certain if that was the case there would of been no way Tiah would of been placed in the Thorburn pit of hell.

once again I am looking for that multi-thanks button

 

[riseabove80]

Just browsing the previous thread regarding Tia, and I have to say, I'm really appalled by the commenters who think it's normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children:

"Hi everyone!*

This is my very first post,* so please be nice lol

I have been watching this case, since the very first time this poor girls missing post, was shared on FB. I have have nothing but feelings of* extreme sadness for her and her family.* I do have to wonder,* or maybe hope, that this wasn't as sinister as we think. Is it, at all possible that it was a terrible accident? That Tiahleigh and Trent possibly had a relationship, that they shouldn't of had,* and it all got wayyy out of control? I have teenagers, and they go to school with other teenagers, kids these days think nothing of dating older grades or younger grades.*"

Another poster:

"Welcome Kitsune, we value and appreciate your input for sure.

and agree certainly with your empathy for Tai & her family, and also of the sentiments re 'this generation' .. lol... ( I know teenage kids for sure) all this 'sex stuff' these days seems to have blurred boundaries (sadly, as a whole lot of emotional & mental maturity can ultimately be called upon in the 'coping' stages).

I did wonder at the 'relationship' .. But that was blown by the Facebook to cousin that made me think it was a single act of ... ^%

i seem to to be way behind in posting (duty calls) but still like to acknowledge. Really value all input and opinions, thank you."

Another poster: Kitsune!!!!

I completely get what you're saying in regards to their relationship, he may well have been immature and many 12 year old girls date older boys, so even though it's technically illegal we have all known teens who are that far apart and form a sexual relationship, it's not sinister IMO either.
And another:

"And note she was 12 when she went missing, this would have made him 18 at the time, he's 19 now. I believe there would be hundreds if not thousands of 12 year old girls having relationships with 18 year old guys as people attending high school would be between these ages.

I know incest is wrong, but both being young, I feel both wouldn't see this as being an issue, hey kids these days do whatever they please."

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Just browsing the previous thread regarding Tia, and I have to say, I'm really appalled by the commenters who think it's normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children:

Yes, I agree, very difficult to read and understand the thinking behind it. I recommend to ignore, luckily it's not fb where these comments are rife.

 

[Warshawski]

Just browsing the previous thread regarding Tia, and I have to say, I'm really appalled by the commenters who think it's normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children:

"Hi everyone!*

This is my very first post,* so please be nice lol

I have been watching this case, since the very first time this poor girls missing post, was shared on FB. I have have nothing but feelings of* extreme sadness for her and her family.* I do have to wonder,* or maybe hope, that this wasn't as sinister as we think. Is it, at all possible that it was a terrible accident? That Tiahleigh and Trent possibly had a relationship, that they shouldn't of had,* and it all got wayyy out of control? I have teenagers, and they go to school with other teenagers, kids these days think nothing of dating older grades or younger grades.*"

Another poster:

"Welcome Kitsune, we value and appreciate your input for sure.

and agree certainly with your empathy for Tai & her family, and also of the sentiments re 'this generation' .. lol... ( I know teenage kids for sure) all this 'sex stuff' these days seems to have blurred boundaries (sadly, as a whole lot of emotional & mental maturity can ultimately be called upon in the 'coping' stages).

I did wonder at the 'relationship' .. But that was blown by the Facebook to cousin that made me think it was a single act of ... ^%

i seem to to be way behind in posting (duty calls) but still like to acknowledge. Really value all input and opinions, thank you."

Another poster: Kitsune!!!!

I completely get what you're saying in regards to their relationship, he may well have been immature and many 12 year old girls date older boys, so even though it's technically illegal we have all known teens who are that far apart and form a sexual relationship, it's not sinister IMO either.
And another:

"And note she was 12 when she went missing, this would have made him 18 at the time, he's 19 now. I believe there would be hundreds if not thousands of 12 year old girls having relationships with 18 year old guys as people attending high school would be between these ages.

I know incest is wrong, but both being young, I feel both wouldn't see this as being an issue, hey kids these days do whatever they please."

I value your opinion for sure but I wonder perhaps if you have misunderstood the comments and points made previously.

IMO you won't find anyone here who disagrees with what I interpret to be your underlying comment - it's not normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children - andFor that matter I will go a step further and say I believe we are united in our non-acceptance of Rape of any kind.

 

[John Dillinger]

Just browsing the previous thread regarding Tia, and I have to say, I'm really appalled by the commenters who think it's normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children:"[/I]

It's not the posters you should be appalled at thinking its normal, its society you should be appalled at....... as the reality is, and unfortunate as it is....this is normal (Note: I'm not saying (rape) as it's technically known as their underage, when I say the norm, but sex between youngsters between 12-17(18)). But what do you expect, take a look at what the young girls/guys watch on TV, music videos and the like. Just take a look at how many 12+ year old girls, even younger get so excited about Justin Bieber (and similar), then they watch music video after music video of girls twerking all over TV, what do you expect other than it to be normal. It's not good, but unfortunately it's the norm.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I value your opinion for sure but I wonder perhaps if you have misunderstood the comments and points made previously.

IMO you won't find anyone here who disagrees with what I interpret to be your underlying comment - it's not normal for 18 year old men to rape 12 year old children - andFor that matter I will go a step further and say I believe we are united in our non-acceptance of Rape of any kind.

It's not the posters you should be appalled at thinking its normal, its society you should be appalled at....... as the reality is, and unfortunate as it is....this is normal (Note: I'm not saying (rape) as it's technically known as their underage, when I say the norm, but sex between youngsters between 12-17(18)). But what do you expect, take a look at what the young girls/guys watch on TV, music videos and the like. Just take a look at how many 12+ year old girls, even younger get so excited about Justin Bieber (and similar), then they watch music video after music video of girls twerking all over TV, what do you expect other than it to be normal. It's not good, but unfortunately it's the norm.

Posters are part of society, are they not? Society isn't some big boogie man out there, it's made up of people like you and me, and we can let it slide with an attitude that it's 'society's fault' or we can take action and say NO! Tiah was young girl who needed guidance and love with no strings attached, that was her right, it's every single child's right!

So what if a young girl or boy is excited about music and Justin Bieber or whoever, that’s normal. If an adult, male or female abuses that normality for their own gratification, that’s rape, that’s abuse. Please don't try and make it something it isn't, a consensual relationship and twerking is somehow the catalyst.

This thread is for Tiah and we're not allowed to go off topic with our opinions on what constitutes rape or relationships etc. it's only going to get very ugly and shut down.

 

[John Dillinger]

Posters are part of society, are they not? Society isn't some big boogie man out there, it's made up of people like you and me, and we can let it slide with an attitude that it's 'society's fault' or we can take action and say NO! Tiah was young girl who needed guidance and love with no strings attached, that was her right, it's every single child's right!

So what if a young girl or boy is excited about music and Justin Bieber or whoever, that’s normal. If an adult, male or female abuses that normality for their own gratification, that’s rape, that’s abuse. Please don't try and make it something it isn't, a consensual relationship and twerking is somehow the catalyst.

This thread is for Tiah and we're not allowed to go off topic with our opinions on what constitutes rape or relationships etc. it's only going to get very ugly and shut down.

If society looked after the children, stuff like this wouldn't happen, it's society that lets it's slide, not me. If I had it my way, society would be a lot different and believe me, would most likely protect more children than it currently does.

and OMG if you don't think young girls twerking is a catalyst.......then there is no hope for society or the young.

 

[John Dillinger]

This thread is for Tiah and we're not allowed to go off topic with our opinions on what constitutes rape or relationships etc. it's only going to get very ugly and shut down.

I was just replying to riseabove80's post, not getting off topic.

 

[John Dillinger]

If an adult, male or female abuses that normality for their own gratification, that’s rape, that’s abuse.

And staying on topic, there is currently no charge of rape against any of the accused. IMO the police have charged TT with incest as IMO their current evidence would only put him at 17 years of age when the sexual contact occurred. So neither party would have been an adult, hence the incest charge as this would carry a harsher penalty than him being charged as a minor.

IMO

 

[Kitsune]

Does this also mean we should not go off topic and discuss the state of the foster system? Imo the mind set of teenages and society, in regards to underage sex definitely relates to this topic as much as the current state and changes that need to be addressed with the foster system. If it wasn't through a failure in the foster system Tiah would be alive. If it wasn't for the most part accepted that teenagers have relationships under age, Tiah would be alive because alarm bells would of been rung and a complaint would of been made. I in NO way condone rape! !

 

[PrimeSuspect]

And staying on topic, there is currently no charge of rape against any of the accused. IMO the police have charged TT with incest as IMO their current evidence would only put him at 17 years of age when the sexual contact occurred. So neither party would have been an adult, hence the incest charge as this would carry a harsher penalty than him being charged as a minor.

IMO

TT is currently 19 yrs old, he was 18/19 yrs of age when he sexually abused Tiah. Let's stick with the facts.

Does this also mean we should not go off topic and discuss the state of the foster system? Imo the mind set of teenages and society, in regards to underage sex definitely relates to this topic as much as the current state and changes that need to be addressed with the foster system. If it wasn't through a failure in the foster system Tiah would be alive. If it wasn't for the most part accepted that teenagers have relationships under age, Tiah would be alive because alarm bells would of been rung and a complaint would of been made. I in NO way condone rape! !

Tiah was 12 yrs old! There was no relationship, she was abused by a young man who knew it was wrong. JMO

 

[Mandala]

I work in child protection in Australia and it is very common with guardianship children to associate with older men. They are traumatised children and seek attention and love even when it is the wrong character. In Australia we make reports when the children make disclosures, but most of the time nothing is done about it because the girls refuse to talk to authorities. Even if there's evidence of an assault, if the young girl refuses to make a statement, the case is closed.

 

[John Dillinger]

TT is currently 19 yrs old, he was 18/19 yrs of age when he sexually abused Tiah. Let's stick with the facts.

Show me where it states he was 18, she lived with them for 10 months prior to her disappearance, this would put him at 17 when she was living there and just turned 18 when she was murdered.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I work in child protection in Australia and it is very common with guardianship children to associate with older men. They are traumatised children and seek attention and love even when it is the wrong character. In Australia we make reports when the children make disclosures, but most of the time nothing is done about it because the girls refuse to talk to authorities. Even if there's evidence of an assault, if the young girl refuses to make a statement, the case is closed.

<modsnip>

BTW, it's never too late for the abused child to report the abuser, so please don't think they're off the hook. Twenty years later, that abuser can land in jail!

 

[John Dillinger]

Tiah was 12 yrs old! There was no relationship, she was abused by a young man who knew it was wrong. JMO

I 100% agree with you here, that he knew he was wrong. I've never said he didn't and I've never said it was right, it's wrong, but what I'm saying is that it is normal in this day and age for young people to be sexually active under legal age and IMO it's society that is to blame. That's my point what I'm trying to get across.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I 100% agree with you here, that he knew he was wrong. I've never said he didn't and I've never said it was right, it's wrong, but what I'm saying is that it is normal in this day and age for young people to be sexually active under legal age and IMO it's society that is to blame. That's my point what I'm trying to get across.

It's wrong but it's normal?!

 

[John Dillinger]

I work in child protection in Australia and it is very common with guardianship children to associate with older men. They are traumatised children and seek attention and love even when it is the wrong character. In Australia we make reports when the children make disclosures, but most of the time nothing is done about it because the girls refuse to talk to authorities. Even if there's evidence of an assault, if the young girl refuses to make a statement, the case is closed.

It's wrong but it's normal?!

Correct. I think it's 100% wrong......then let me put it another way, it happens all the time in today's society. So when something occurs all the time in society, some would call this normal. (definition of normal : conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected) So in todays society this can be seen as the standard; usual, typical, or expected. (synonyms: usual, standard, typical, stock, common, ordinary, customary, conventional, habitual, accustomed, expected, wonted, everyday, regular, routine, day-to-day, daily, established, settled, set, fixed, traditional, quotidian, prevailing)

 

[Mandala]

and you're helping these young people, how?

BTW, it's never too late for the abused child to report the abuser, so please don't think they're off the hook. Twenty years later, that abuser can land in jail!

We try! But we can't keep them locked up, if they want to leave their placement, we can't stop them. Some placements do lockdown which is probably the safest for them but some argue this is too institutionalised.

PrimeSuspect, I totally agree with you, the system is flawed. I have seen fathers who have raped their daughters and got away with it. It's a disgrace!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Correct. I think it's 100% wrong......then let me put it another way, it happens all the time in today's society. So when something occurs all the time in society, some would call this normal. (definition of normal : conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected) So in todays society this can be seen as the standard; usual, typical, or expected. (synonyms: usual, standard, typical, stock, common, ordinary, customary, conventional, habitual, accustomed, expected, wonted, everyday, regular, routine, day-to-day, daily, established, settled, set, fixed, traditional, quotidian, prevailing)

Where is it accepted that a 12 yr old is having sex? If anyone knows this is happening, they should be reporting it on behalf of the child. Why is the child/victim blamed? If it isn't the twerking, it's the way they dress, or behave or smile etc. Where do the excuses end?